44 replies to this topic

[Atreiu]

This is juicy.
https://the-race.com...-hopes-at-risk/

[Zoe]

So, Suzuki for presi..., umm, championship?

[Rodaknee]

This is juicy.
https://the-race.com...-hopes-at-risk/

 

Yamaha were already facing problems with engine mileage

 

https://www.motorspo...f-engines-first

 

 

[P0inters]

This is juicy.
https://the-race.com...-hopes-at-risk/

If, after all the incredible racing we've had this season, this was what decided the championship, then that would be very disappointing indeed.

[DS27]

Now on Autosport  

 

https://www.autospor...-motogp-engines

 

This could really take the buzz out of the championship battle.  

[dissident]

That would be a bummer indeed.

[Ali623]

https://twitter.com/...431615477616642

 

Constructor penalised but not the Yamaha riders.

[dissident]

https://twitter.com/...431615477616642

 

Constructor penalised but not the Yamaha riders.

 

Screw Yamaha, seriously.

 

"oversight"

[Rodaknee]

https://twitter.com/...431615477616642

 

Constructor penalised but not the Yamaha riders.

That's crap.  They race as one, rider & team.

[ehagar]

It sucks, and would virtually end the championship, but I believe they should penalize the riders too. Force them to start in the pit lane for each new engine used until the end of the season.

[JHSingo]

That's crap.  They race as one, rider & team.

Hardly the rider's fault if the manufacturer's being doing something wrong with the engines though, is it? I've never been a fan of drivers/riders getting docked points or whatever for something that has nothing to do with them.

[JRodrigues]

Hardly the rider's fault if the manufacturer's being doing something wrong with the engines though, is it? I've never been a fan of drivers/riders getting docked points or whatever for something that has nothing to do with them.

 

Correct, not their fault. But they did get an advantage over other riders.

[realracer200]

Hardly the rider's fault if the manufacturer's being doing something wrong with the engines though, is it? I've never been a fan of drivers/riders getting docked points or whatever for something that has nothing to do with them.

That's a really bizarre logic.

[realracer200]

btw Ducati now leads the constructors championship.

[Lennat]

Stupid not to penalize riders if team is not following the rules.

[DS27]

I have deleted my post and am awaiting further clarity before commenting because there may have been no technical infringement, but just a failure to follow protocol, so *maybe* I can understand not penalising the riders. 

 

Obviously if any component being used was illegal, then the riders should be docked points, but I doubt it's that straight-forward. A weekend of politics awaits us (in more ways than one)

Edited by DS27, 05 November 2020 - 22:46.

[jensfan09]

I have deleted my post and am awaiting further clarity before commenting because there may have been no technical infringement, but just a failure to follow protocol, so *maybe* I can understand not penalising the riders.

Obviously if any component being used was illegal, then the riders should be docked points, but I doubt it's that straight-forward. A weekend of politics awaits us (in more ways than one)

“while not respecting the protocol for technical changes.”, seems like a technical infringement to me.

They made changes to their homologated engine after the start of the season! They made an illegal change which affected the reliability and therefore the performance of their bikes!

Edited by jensfan09, 05 November 2020 - 23:15.

[dissident]

More details here:

 

https://motomatters....shment_for.html

 

Amateur  hour.

[jensfan09]

More details here:

https://motomatters....shment_for.html

Amateur hour.

Surely Yamaha has broken the code of honour so why would Suzuki stand by it and not appeal the decision?

Also the author says that other riders would gain points, which is wrong, the result of the races does not change, the riders are just deducted the points.

[JacksBalls]

Hardly the rider's fault if the manufacturer's being doing something wrong with the engines though, is it? I've never been a fan of drivers/riders getting docked points or whatever for something that has nothing to do with them.

Might as well run a new engine each race, target the riders title and not worry about the constructors championship.

Where do you draw the line? Rules are there for a reason.

Edited by JacksBalls, 05 November 2020 - 23:33.

[TecnoRacing]

Marc Marquez on Yamaha situation not affecting the riders' points:

 

"Ahora resulta que los pilotos no nos beneficiamos de las ventajas mecánicas. Tela marinera"

 

~"Come to find out, apparently we riders do not benefit from having a mechanical advantage."

 

 

@marcmarquez93/status/1324455079999639553

 

 

[noikeee]

Hardly the rider's fault if the manufacturer's being doing something wrong with the engines though, is it? I've never been a fan of drivers/riders getting docked points or whatever for something that has nothing to do with them.

So if in F1 next race Williams run Latifi 100kg underweight and he wins the race, should he be allowed to keep the win on a personal basis because it's the team that entered an illegal car, not him?

[LucaP]

I think it's pretty clear they didn't want to ruin the final climax of the championship, eh?

It's good for the spectators, illogical from a sporting point of view.

[PlayboyRacer]

Wrong to be penalising the teams but letting the riders off the hook.

Surely you can't compromise integrity simply to maintain a blockbuster finish to the World Championship.

[Atreiu]

https://twitter.com/...431615477616642

Constructor penalised but not the Yamaha riders.

That is ****ing bullshit.

[ehagar]

More details here:

 

https://motomatters....shment_for.html

 

Amateur  hour.

 

 

Reading thru that, the only conclusion I have is that Yamaha should receive a DSQ from every race that the  Jerez engines were used. If they choose to run those modified engines again they should be starting from the pitlane. 

 

I understand the desire not to interfere with the championship, but that isn't right. Deliberately tampering in that manner is not on. 

[Rodaknee]

More details here:

 

https://motomatters....shment_for.html

 

Amateur  hour.

 

One of the comments from Motomatters.

 

 

Engine seals
2ndclasscitizen

I thought all engines for the season had to be presented and sealed before the first race. So when did Yamaha go back to the original, homologated valves as that would presumably require breaking the engine seals?

 

Could Yamaha have played with the seals?

[ehagar]

That certainly seems to be implied. Not good.

[Disgrace]

Guess the magic of the season is over, huh?

[JacksBalls]

Reading thru that, the only conclusion I have is that Yamaha should receive a DSQ from every race that the Jerez engines were used. If they choose to run those modified engines again they should be starting from the pitlane.

I understand the desire not to interfere with the championship, but that isn't right. Deliberately tampering in that manner is not on.

Pretty blatant attempt to cheat.
Any news on Ducatis position?
Has this happened before in the championship?
Will be very interesting to hear Crafer interviewing the team principals!!!!

Edited by JacksBalls, 06 November 2020 - 09:29.

[Risil]

Regulars: shall I make a new thread for the Yamaha controversy?

[Risil]

Done! Carry on.

[DS27]

Okay, having read more, i'm happy to go with my initial thoughts that bad as it is for the championship battle, the riders should have been punished.

[MattK9]

Correct, not their fault. But they did get an advantage over other riders.

 

I think the crux of the matter comes down to whether Yamaha got an advantage by doing this?

 

As far as I can see (please correct me if wrong) this is a genuine error on Yamaha's part (rather than deliberate cheating) and they have gained no advantage at all. If fact they have been disadvantaged due to retirements (from faulty valves) and having to run the engines at reduced revs and not having access to the engines they used at Jerez. Now they have been given points penalties and they will have to start at the back of the grid if any new engines are taken (which is likely)

 

It seems like this was their Championship to lose and they have lost it quite spectacularly. This really is the year where no-one seems to want to win the championship! Mir is going to be champion without winning a race. 

[Atreiu]

Alex Marquez has been the most vocal critic, I bet the beef between the Marquez's and Yamaha runs deep.

[ensign14]

Hardly the rider's fault if the manufacturer's being doing something wrong with the engines though, is it? I've never been a fan of drivers/riders getting docked points or whatever for something that has nothing to do with them.

So someone wins the world title by using a 1500cc engine and you only penalize the manufacturer?

[Zoe]

Does anyone have the exact wording / detail of the infringement? I haven't followed it in detail but I have read all sorts of claims, ranging from a technical illegal engine to identical valves being used but sourced from a different supplier. The - in my opinion - valid penalties for those infringements would be different. Ths first a clear DSQ, the last more in line with Mercedes and Pink Mercedes in F1. But my humble opinion of course, without having gone into too many details.

[HP]

https://www.autospor...gine-valve-saga

 

After the explanation of Jarvis, I think there is mostly nothing to see here.

 

In short, they switched the manufacturer company of the valve. But the valve was the same. No performance gain it seems. 

[F1 Mike]

From the explanation it seems innocent on the surface, but why if you have a supply issue would you not let that be known and have the new components inspected and homologated? You can't just go swapping bits and hope nobody asks questions

[manmower]

Correct, not their fault. But they did get an advantage over other riders.

You don't know that. In fact for all we know there's been an obvious disadvantage and no evidence of an advantage.

[Atreiu]

More problems with Rossi today and (not engine related) Quartararo having a first lap fall.

 

What an end to their season.

[GrumpyYoungMan]

Hardly the rider's fault if the manufacturer's being doing something wrong with the engines though, is it? I've never been a fan of drivers/riders getting docked points or whatever for something that has nothing to do with them.

But the riders MAYBE wouldn’t be that position if they played by the rules, they win and loose together...

[Reinmuster]

I read somewhere Yamaha said they appointed 2 suppliers for the valve components. They planned to use the first supplier for the first half of season and the second supplier for the second half of the season. They got problem with the first supplier, trying to get the second supplier to replace the first supplier's faulty components.

 

Then they ask MSMA for the permission to unseal the engine and then withdraw it. Because they already use the second supplier's component?

 

Did Yamaha need to clarify that they intend to use 2 suppliers for their engine components first before homologated their engine?

 

Did the rules allows/prevent this?

[ForzaFormula]

Should this not be in the Moto GP thread?  Would also keep it more active in there especially after a bore fest race, need some gossip.

[Reinmuster]

Should this not be in the Moto GP thread?  Would also keep it more active in there especially after a bore fest race, need some gossip.

 

It was.

 

https://forums.autos...-etc/?p=9284622