12 replies to this topic

[blueprint2002]

“Motor Sport” reported in 1948 that Monaco Engineering were well advanced with the conversion of one of the old Sunbeam 4-litre V12 cars into a four-wheel-drive sprint car for one J M James. Not unnaturally, the brief description dealt mainly with the transmission, the preselector gearbox fitted by Malcolm Campbell being retained. Somewhat surprisingly, the transfer box was said to be at the front, though it could be that the term had a different meaning at that time.

Be that as it may, I have been unable to find any subsequent mention of such a car, of its appearance in competition, or of any other developments. This is difficult to understand, as those two Sunbeams are so well known, both in their original form, and as converted, under the guidance of Reid Railton, to suit Campbell’s requirements.

On the other hand, the report was based on actual viewing of the car in the workshop, and even mentioned that naming it “Monaco-Sunbeam” was justified by the extent and nature of the modifications made by the firm.

Anyone know what became of it? Was the work ever completed? If so, was it subsequently rebuilt to original form? Competition record? Pictures? Anything!  

 

[Roger Clark]

You probably know this already but I found no mention of a Monaco-Sunbeam in Anthony Heal's Sunbeam Racing Cars nor in John Wyer's Certain sound - Wyer was MD of Monaco Motors at the time.

 

Sir Ralph Millais wrote a history of 4-litre Sunbeams for the VSCC Bulletin Autumn 1967. He says:

 

"After the war, the two cars - Tiger and Tigress - were acquired by W M James.  After a lapse of seven or eight years the engines and chassis must have been in need of a complete strip".   He then describes some engine modifications which he says were inadvisable and continues:

 

"Under this guise, the Tiger turned out occasionally at Vintage meetings driven by Mr James but I do not think he had much luck with it - certainly not through lack of trying - for reasons stated in the previous paragraph" (the engine modifications).

 

"The Tiger and Tigress then landed up in a little garage in Warwickshire and by good fortune I saw them advertised in Motor Sport in 1952.  They were completely in pieces"

[Roger Clark]

There is apparently a photograph of James' Sunbeam in the VSCC Bulletin February 1949, on the startling lineat Silverstone.  I have an index but not the Bulletin!

[Allan Lupton]

There is apparently a photograph of James' Sunbeam in the VSCC Bulletin February 1949, on the startling line at Silverstone.  I have an index but not the Bulletin!

The VSCC website has a lot of Bulletins available to view, but neither February '49 nor Autumn '67 are there. I've got an original printed issue of the latter of course, but not the earlier one.

[oliver heal]

If you keep working your way through Motor Sport you will find a note in June 1949 which says the "James V12 4 litre Sunbeam which at one time was to be converted to four-wheel drive but is now to be rebuilt almost to the specification of the Campbell era". By July 1949 James was driving it at Prescott and then Silverstone.

 

Somehow my father ended up with the body from one of the cars in 1951. In March 1952 Sam Clutton wrote a postcard "Did you know J. Lindsay-Hatchett of Wyche Engineering Co. Droitwich Spa has the Tiger & Tigress ex-James ... 'at a reasonable price'." This must be where Ralph Millais bought them and the body was reunited with the car. Not sure when Millais disposed of Tigress but it went through various transformations before being rebuilt as Tigress.

[RogerFrench]

Didn't Jenks have Tigress, sans moteur, for a time? Or am I confused with something else?

[oliver heal]

Didn't Jenks have Tigress, sans moteur, for a time? Or am I confused with someting else?

 

 

Jenks had one of the 1924 2 litre 6-cyl supercharged GP Sunbeams but sadly without its engine. One of the others was known as The Cub even though it was born before Tiger and Tigress so perhaps Jenks's one could have been baptised Cubess!

[Roger Clark]

There was an advert in Autosport, 24th November 1950:

 

Sunbeam Tiger and Tigress supercharged 4-litre 12-cylinder, holders of many world records by Segrave and Campbell, 150mph.  One car completely reconditioned in 1949 by Monaco but needs attention. £675.  Second car unassembled but reconditioned ready for assembly.  New pistons, valves etc. £375.  James, Molsheim, Hanbury, Bromsgrove.  Hanbury 280.

 

David McKinney's notes show th postwar owners of Tigress as:

195? Sir Ralph Millais (in pieces)

                |

          1968 Peter Morley (and Llewellyn) raced with Napier engine

               |

          1985 reconstituted by Tony Jones

               |

          1990 (Bruce Spollon)

    |

1994 Baker-Courtney and Merrifield

1995 Baker-Courtney and Merrifield

1996 Baker-Courtney and Merrifield

1997 Baker-Courtney and Merrifield

 

And Tiger:

1953 Sir Ralph Millais/Ronnie Symondson and Jack Smith

        1954 Sir Ralph Millais/Symondson and Smith

        1955 Sir Ralph Millais

        1956 Sir Ralph Millais/Smith

        1957 Sir Ralph Millais/Symondson

              |

        1965 Sir Ralph Millais/Burton and Symondson

        1966 Sir Ralph Millais/George Burton

        1967 Sir Ralph Millais

        1968 Sir Ralph Millais/Lindsay

        1969 Neil Corner

        1970 Neil Corner

        1971 Neil Corner

              |

        1977 Neil Corner

              |

        1982 T A Roberts

          1983

1984

        1985 T A Roberts

        1986 T A Roberts

        1987 T A Roberts

        1988 T A Roberts

        1989 T A Roberts

        1990 Roberts estate/LSR

                     Sotheby's auction July

                     Vijay Mallya

        1991 (Vijay Mallya)

        1992 (Vijay Mallya)

        1993 Vijay Mallya 

        1994 Vijay Mallya/John Harper 

    |

1999 (Vijay Mallya)

 

[blueprint2002]

Thanks RC, AL and OH for your help, the picture is fairly clear now.

For whatever reasons, the project was a failure, and the car was reverted to its previous (Railton/Campbell) form.

There’s even a picture of James smoking the rear wheels on the start line, at a sprint, in a 1949 edition of the magazine. That was unlikely to have happened with 4WD. At 20+ years, it was naturally outclassed in the few events where it ran.

Curious how so many 4WD sprint cars were conceived, almost simultaneously, in the late 40s: Allard, Butterworth and this one. And with such limited resources, what little AJB achieved was no less praiseworthy than what Bugatti’s T53 had done, a generation earlier.

[Vitesse2]

With so little circuit racing going on and with sprints, hillclimbs and trials being the lifeblood of the sport in Britain at the time I don't think it's 'curious' at all. It was still incredibly difficult to get permission even to use redundant airfields, let alone active ones, for racing, as they were still under the control of various government departments and often on land which had been commandeered from several different owners, all of whom had to give permission. Those government departments were also very obstructive. See - for example - Peter Hull's description of the difficulties encountered in the run-up to the second Gransden Lodge meeting in 1947 in his history of the VSCC or the failure of the Balado Bridge project in Graham Gauld's 'Scottish Motor Racing and Drivers'.

 

And of course there were lots of war surplus 4WD transmissions about in all those Jeeps and captured Steyrs ...

[Charlieman]

And of course there were lots of war surplus 4WD transmissions about in all those Jeeps and captured Steyrs ...

Engineers knew how to apply 4WD and caterpillar track drive for military vehicles, agriculture, mining etc but that was almost it. Independent suspension had only become a mainstream concept for road and racing cars in the mid 1930s and there were few scientific reports available. People who thought they knew how things worked kept things to themselves. Post WWII designers of specials using 4WD military parts were entering even less explored ground.

 

4WD worked for light road cars like the Jeep which were able to pull out of a patch of mud. Whilst the top speed was low, they accelerated surprisingly well on greasy surfaces. The low top speed was intentional however because cornering ability was abysmal. If building a special for 1,000 yard sprints, 4WD had obvious attractions, assuming the designer could make the car turn corners.

 

I'd also explain the number of 1940s 4WD specials on fashion and gossip. So and so has bought these parts; do you reckon there is anything in it?

 

I wonder what Archie Butterworth would have done had he been born a few years later.

[Vitesse2]

I think most people were looking more towards them as trials cars, really, with hillclimbs and sprints as secondary. In the months leading up to September 1939 - and for the first few months of the war - there was a lot of comment in the specialist press about wrong-headed decisions by both the RAC and the government and their attitude to trials driving, given that the German forces had devoted so much in the way of resources and manpower to them throughout the 1930s. 'Knobbly' tyres were banned from competition in 1939 - ostensibly to level the playing field, given that semi-works teams like the Cream Crackers, Grasshoppers and Candidi Provocatores had been so dominant, and so to force clubs to use less difficult hills. In fact the top teams just did even better, of course! When the war started the RAC put a voluntary blanket ban on all four-wheeled motor sport, although the ACU continued trials and scrambles on two wheels. In 1940 Motor Sport even dubbed the RAC 'Restricts All Competition'!

 

Sydney Allard had extensive experience of pre-war trials and his company had spent the war maintaining vehicles for the forces. I dare say a fair number of 4WDs passed through his - and other people's - workshops.

 

And - again - with all the difficulties of actually finding a venue with a solid surface, the prospects for trials probably looked better than for circuit racing. Especially with continued fuel rationing, which shrank to nil in 1947-48 and didn't finally end until a fortnight after the 1950 British GP!

 

At the beginning of 1950 we still only had two permanent circuits in Britain, one less than in 1939 ...

[Charlieman]

And - again - with all the difficulties of actually finding a venue with a solid surface, the prospects for trials probably looked better than for circuit racing. Especially with continued fuel rationing, which shrank to nil in 1947-48 and didn't finally end until a fortnight after the 1950 British GP!

We've discussed the nature of racing surfaces -- track, park roads, street circuits -- on previous threads without many conclusions. 70 odd years later, it is difficult to interpret reports about 'good track surface' because we have rarely see anything that bad.

 

Maybe it is time to return to old Sunbeams. What would you do to one of them to make them a sprint winner?