1728 replies to this topic

[TomNokoe]

Like bumping into an old flame, the familiar Istanbul Park is the fourth new or returning circuit in a row after Nurburgring, Portimao and Imola. 15 years after the inaugural event and 9 years since a lap was turned in anger, yet somehow it feels strange to say this is only the eighth running of the Turkish Grand Prix. Arguably the jewel in the crown from the Tilke portfolio, a fan favourite.

 

A weekend poised to crown Lewis Hamilton as a seven-time world champion, but as always there's plenty more to look out for. Only four races to go, it's Round 14 of the 2020 FIA Formula One World Championship!

 

 

The Circuit

 

 

Take your pick of onboard lap ...

 

 

 

An awesome, awesome, track that rewards driver confidence and engineering ingenuity. A great compromise of straight line speed, high speed grip and low speed stability. And who can forget the mythical TURN 8?!

 

 

Now with two DRS zones! An interesting prospect having the zones so close together with separate detection points. If you are overtaken into T12, will you be able to immediately fight back into T1? We could see some great battles ...

 

Also, a resurfacing reminder, just like in Portimao the track has been fully resurfaced, and the forecast is very mild, so we may see more tyre warm-up struggles and drivers fighting for grip on lap 1

 

From the current crop, only Hamilton, Vettel, Raikkonen, Perez and Ricciardo(FP1 2011) have driven F1 machinery here. There's also Hulkenberg, who is on the sidelines (for now). Grosjean raced, and won, in GP2. Bottas raced GP3.

 

Turkish Delight

 

2005 - a successful start, most notable for Colin Kolles' dentistry, Tiago Monteiro's second-most notable appearance of 2005, and Montoya surrendering P2 to Alonso on the final lap.

 

Not a happy Juan Pablo

 

2006-2008 - the Massa years, Istanbul Park may well have been called Felipe's Playground, with three consecutive pole positions and victories.

 

 

 

 

2009 - six out of seven for Jenson, Button romps home after Vettel's lap 1 error. "You have built me a monster of a car".

Little did he know...

 

2010 - disaster at Red Bull, turmoil at McLaren. A race for the ages.

 

 

2011 - record-breaker, of sorts. An oft-forgotten race, at the time it set the record for the most pitstops and on-track overtakes, ever. A sign of things to come in the DRS/Pirelli era.

 

"Too many pit-stops, too much passing in F1 2011?"

 

The State of Play

 

 

The big headline this week is Hamilton's pursuit of world title number seven, to bring him level with the great man himself. All he needs to do is not allow Bottas to out-score him by 8 points. The most likely scenario for this to happen would be Bottas P1 with fastest lap, Hamilton P2. I'll let you work out all of the other permutations, but the short answer is: it's looking good.

 

 

Despite the predictable battle at the front, the midfield battle is tremendously exciting. You could put a cigarette paper between Renault, McLaren and Racing Point. Meanwhile, there's a private battle for Italian supremacy between Ferrari and Alpha Tauri.

 

Tyres and Weather

 

 

 

Another tweak from the usual 2H, 3M, 8S allocation. Pirelli has brought exactly the same compounds and allocation as in Portimao.

 

 

A small threat of rain, and ever-decreasing temperatures. Once again this will likely be a weekend dictated around graining and bringing the tyres into the window. Lots of similarities with Portimao!

 

Time zones, Scheduling - watch out!

 

Users of a North American affliction, look away now. This race weekend is an early one. Europeans may even need to set an alarm, yes, really.

       GMT (UK)  -   CET (EU)  -   TRT (Local)
FP1    0800          0900          1100
FP2    1200          1300          1500
FP3    0900          1000          1200
Q      1200          1300          1500
R      1010          1110          1310

Check your own times here or here.

 

--

WELCOME BACK, TURKEY!

 

Edited by TomNokoe, 11 November 2020 - 11:21.

[ARTGP]

Tarmac looks like a skating rink 

[Anja]

That DRS on the back straight looks like complete overkill. 

[milestone 11]

Crazy race start time 10.10am UK. Looking forward to this, great circuit.

Edited by milestone 11, 10 November 2020 - 21:53.

[messy]

I absolutely ****ing love this circuit and its return to the calendar is one of the best things about the 2020 season.

[ferrarista]

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=V_6beOGFpe8

After 14 years, I still think Michael could have played better his chances, but that long left hander was a killer every lap.
With DRS it would have been an easy “like a train” pass.

[FortiFord]

That DRS on the back straight looks like complete overkill. 

 

Yes, the DRS was completed overpowered on that section back in 2011. Passes were completed well before the braking zone. 

 

F1 doesn't learn. 

[TomNokoe]

An oft-forgotten race, at the time it set the record for the most pitstops and on-track overtakes in a race, ever. A sign of things to come.

Quoting myself, but I watched this race on F1TV last night, and it was so much better than I remember.

While I was writing the OP, F1 released a 2011 highlights video on YouTube, and let me tell you they have missed plenty! A really enjoyable watch.

 

Edited by TomNokoe, 10 November 2020 - 22:14.

[TomNokoe]

Yes, the DRS was completed overpowered on that section back in 2011. Passes were completed well before the braking zone.

F1 doesn't learn.

I'm not sure. Personally I think it'll be just right.

DRS wasn't an insta-pass in the 2011 race, the crazy tyre deg made it easier than it looked. Plus, dirty air is orders of magnitude worse now.

Thankfully, in contrast to Portimao and Imola, there's a tight corner after DRS, so we'll definitely see some moves under braking.

Edited by TomNokoe, 10 November 2020 - 22:19.

[rf90]

I guess Turn 8 will be easy now?

[Requiem84]

I guess Turn 8 will be easy now?

Yup, easy full throttle.

Maybe not with full car though?

[TomNokoe]

I guess Turn 8 will be easy now?

In qualifying, definitely.

If they dip under 1m20s for pole, the average lap speed will be a massive 240km/h, very similar to Imola. They will probably go quicker. 1:18.436 = 245km/h?!

If you compare other 2011 vs 2020 pole times, 240km/h should be possible. Crazy fast.

I think the engineers will try to trim the cars as much as possible to carry a high top speed, but make sure they have just enough DF to take T8 flat in quali. Playing chicken with wing levels This will also help to de-stress the tyres during the race.

Edited by TomNokoe, 10 November 2020 - 22:32.

[Spillage]

I declare myself to be excited.

[Requiem84]

Which car should do well here?

[FLB]

Which car should do well here?

The same that has won all the races but one.

[GlenWatkins]

I am looking forward to this race, based upon previous races, although with today's cars and the double DRS this one may be but a shadow of past races.  I only hope that the new surface is slippery enough to make some of the corners challenging.  As in Portimão, the number of laps that the medium tire can hold up for will be very important in the race. 

 

It will be interesting to see how many Finns travel to Instanbul to cheer Kimi on this year. 

 

[TomNokoe]

Which car should do well here?

I think Mercedes, Renault, Alpha Tauri and Alfa Romeo will all perform slightly above their season average because from what I have seen this year they are the most aero efficient cars relative to their opposition. I think base setup will be similar to Imola (med-low DF, playing chicken with Turn 8), but the circuit characteristics are totally different, and my technical knowledge ends there!

 

But who knows, really. This is such a unique circuit. I'm sure because of the mini-break teams will bring upgrades. Ted said in the notebook after Imola that Alpha Tauri have upgrades planned. It's a real long shot for both them and Ferrari to gate-crash P3-P4-P5 in the WCC, but anything is possible with a big result. The midfield is so volatile.

 

When this circuit was announced I was a little nonplussed, because "boring turn 8 flat" but I've totally changed my attitude after watching some old clips. It's going to be a great weekend. I really hope the resurfacing doesn't take away some of the old magic. The only negative is that with a paltry 58 laps, the race will fly by!

Edited by TomNokoe, 10 November 2020 - 23:09.

[FLB]

 

 

It will be interesting to see how many Finns travel to Instanbul to cheer Kimi on this year. 

 

No spectators allowed:

 

https://www.motorspo...s-2020/4886396/

[Ellios]

Thank you TomNokoe for OP ! 

 

I'm up for a 10:10 am UK race start time ! 

[Atreiu]

Is it too much to hope turn 8 destroys tyres and everyone has to scramble and make it work?

Edited by Atreiu, 11 November 2020 - 00:16.

[TomNokoe]

Is it too much to hope the track destroys tyres and everyone has to scramble and make it work?

 

Pirelli says no

 

So we made a comparison between Istanbul and some other high severity circuits; to give you an idea, in general Istanbul is less severe than Spa and Silverstone.

 

The Tarmac is new and actually we went there. Thanks to our people in Turkey, we had the chance to use a laser and measure the asphalt. It is quite smooth, it is very new. If I have to give you an idea of the behaviour that I am expecting, it is probably quite in line with what we have seen in Portimao.

 

Although, after the crazy lap 1 in Portimao, we might see more teams starting on Softs, which could introduce the small possibility of more stops later on.

 

In 2011, there was a total of 81 pit stops. The top 5 all four-stopped

Edited by TomNokoe, 11 November 2020 - 00:21.

[ARTGP]

Pirelli says no

 

 

Although, after the crazy lap 1 in Portimao, we might see more teams starting on Softs, which could introduce the small possibility of more stops later on.

 

In 2011, there was a total of 81 pit stops. The top 5 all four-stopped

 

This had more to do with the fact that it was raining than anything. Mercs are still quicker on mediums in the dry.

[GlenWatkins]

No spectators allowed:

https://www.motorspo...s-2020/4886396/

Thanks, I hadn't see that.

[OO7]

I'm not sure. Personally I think it'll be just right.

DRS wasn't an insta-pass in the 2011 race, the crazy tyre deg made it easier than it looked. Plus, dirty air is orders of magnitude worse now.

Thankfully, in contrast to Portimao and Imola, there's a tight corner after DRS, so we'll definitely see some moves under braking.

Exactly and this is often the case with DRS, it's follow the car ahead (can't get close enough for aero reasons) until tyre degradation sets in, followed by a drive by pass.

[Pete_f1]

Red Bull have this!

[Bleu]

That DRS on the back straight looks like complete overkill. 

 

Similar to Spa towards Les Combes - does the uphill run make DRS stronger?

[Requiem84]

Similar to Spa towards Les Combes - does the uphill run make DRS stronger?

Not DRS, but makes the draft stronger.

[Marklar]

Whether DRS is overpowered will depend on whether it's easier to follow through T8 now that it is flat, if it is you are likely already at T9 close enough, and regardless if you pass there or not you will get DRS on the run to T11 since the detection point is before the corner.

[masa90]

Will Be easy win for Mercedes. Thank god this season is coming to an end soon. Only 2021 to go anymore, huh.

[thegamer23]

Great Op & great track, hopefully turn 8 won't be super east flat.

DRS will be Portimao-esque powerful there

Edited by thegamer23, 11 November 2020 - 08:46.

[Peat]

That DRS on the back straight looks like complete overkill. 

 

The ethos of DRS was always that it was a tool to get people 'close enough' to make an attack. 

 

If that's the case, why not have the DRS open as soon as they are off the corner and close automatically 5-700m before the corner? 

They do the inverse, hence the motorway-style inevitable passes. 

[Baddoer]

Interesting venue, races here were quite popular.

I found them a bit worthless, though. A rain might have spice things up.

[Requiem84]

The ethos of DRS was always that it was a tool to get people 'close enough' to make an attack. 

 

If that's the case, why not have the DRS open as soon as they are off the corner and close automatically 5-700m before the corner? 

They do the inverse, hence the motorway-style inevitable passes. 

 

Smart idea, I like it . 

 

Does nobody in F1 notice that driving past a car with DRS and then go back to the racing line is not.... racing?

[jcbc3]

Overtaking Group investigation: http://f1-forecast.c...rs with CFD.pdf

 

You could have had this instead of DRS:

[balage06]

Is it too much to hope turn 8 destroys tyres and everyone has to scramble and make it work?

 

Where is the fun in that?

[rootten]

Overtaking Group investigation: http://f1-forecast.c...rs with CFD.pdf

 

You could have had this instead of DRS:

 

Mehh, ground effect is already in plan for 2022

[ANF]

The ethos of DRS was always that it was a tool to get people 'close enough' to make an attack.

If that's the case, why not have the DRS open as soon as they are off the corner and close automatically 5-700m before the corner?

They do the inverse, hence the motorway-style inevitable passes.

That would cause sudden deceleration on the straight, and in a DRS train the following car would be caught by surprise.

[PayasYouRace]

The ethos of DRS was always that it was a tool to get people 'close enough' to make an attack.

If that's the case, why not have the DRS open as soon as they are off the corner and close automatically 5-700m before the corner?

They do the inverse, hence the motorway-style inevitable passes.

That’s a good idea. I’ve been saying since the beginning, which incredibly means the last 10 years, that it was a good idea implemented poorly.

Something like that would work quite well, without the added complexity of a system that knows when the pass is made and closes at the right moment.

[Peat]

That would cause sudden deceleration on the straight, and in a DRS train the following car would be caught by surprise.

 

But the same thing would be happening to them. 

I don't think it's like hanging a parachute out the back, either. It would certainly be an air-brake, but no worse than the PU going into harvest mode at v-max. (conjecture based only on trying in iRacing)

Also, i'm aware that the advantage of DRS squares with velocity, so in the earlier stages of acceleration off the previous corner it will be less of boost, but hopefully it could mitigate the accordion effect a bit. 

 

I know Ross Brown checks these fora, so PM me Rossy Boi. 

Edited by Peat, 11 November 2020 - 10:25.

[PayasYouRace]

That would cause sudden deceleration on the straight, and in a DRS train the following car would be caught by surprise.

It wouldn’t be a surprise. They’d all know where the DRS closing point would be.

[jcbc3]

Grosjean is in the field, so..........

[rf90]

Which car should do well here?

 

I have a feeling one of the Mercedes cars will do quite well.

[Atreiu]

Where is the fun in that?

It’s more exciting than a regular procession of the top 3 to the podium.

[Risil]

This track always reminds me of Schumacher's great battle for second with Alonso in 2006, and for that matter the MotoGP race in 2006 between the Honda quartet of Melandri, Stoner, Hayden and Pedrosa.

 

Great to see it back as a one-off. I think we'll have an entertaining race. I'm interested to know what the many drivers who weren't in F1 in 2011 make of it too. It's not like Istanbul has been well-visited since it dropped off the Grand Prix calendar.

 

This is not new but I'm rather disappointed they went with the bland-sounding "Istanbul Park" as a name for the circuit instead of the cooler-sounding "Istanbul Otodrom".

[Requiem84]

On top of the above, I always get a strong flashback about the 2006 GP race here in which Hamilton made the rest of the field look like they were driving with different specification of brakes! It was ridiculous how easy he was outbraking the whole field.

 

Really a race which reinforced my feeling that he would do special things in F1. 

 

[Risil]

How could I forget! 2006 as well!

[BRG]

I wasn't much bothered when Turkey dropped off the calendar, but I am quite pleased to see it back, if only for the novelty value of yet another 'new' track.  How many of the grid have never raced here?

 

It also reminds us that Vettel's erratic driving is nothing new, and dates back a decade.  What are the odds that he manages to take out Leclerc?  Oh no, forget that, he would have to get somewhere near him first and that isn't about to happen!

[Burtros]

Given it’s BTCC finale weekend I really don’t know why any motorsport fan would bother with the F1.

Hamilton/Bottas/Verstappen Podium with Hamilton 7x WDC.

There, I just saved your Sunday. Go and do something vaguely interesting or exciting with it instead. BTCC shaping up to be a title classic between the two best drivers in the field with well matched machinery.

It’s the sort of finale that F1 can only dream off.

[Requiem84]

Given it’s BTCC finale weekend I really don’t know why any motorsport fan would bother with the F1.

Hamilton/Bottas/Verstappen Podium with Hamilton 7x WDC.

There, I just saved your Sunday. Go and do something vaguely interesting or exciting with it instead. BTCC shaping up to be a title classic between the two best drivers in the field with well matched machinery.

It’s the sort of finale that F1 can only dream off.

 

I don't know.. if there's a race with potential excitement this year I think Turkey's is the best bet!

[Burtros]

I don't know.. if there's a race with potential excitement this year I think Turkey's is the best bet!

There’s been someone saying that before every GP this year.

If it’s good I’ll watch the highlights. On the evidence this year watching on the off chance it’s not a boring predictable DRS fest isn’t a gamble I’m prepared to pay to take when I know what other better run series have to offer for nothing.

Edited by Burtros, 11 November 2020 - 12:44.