106 replies to this topic

[juicy sushi]

So we've been seeing a changing of the guard over the last two seasons in IndyCar.  I thought it'd be fun to see what the wisdom of the crowd was about which one of this new guard will be the first title winner?  If you haven't been watching IndyCar so have no idea who we're talking about, you can re-watch this season here (IndyCar's Race Re-Caps):  https://www.youtube....GuuTGAwUzOtIrSa

[red stick]

Herta or O'Ward seem the obvious choices, but I'm torn about which will be first.  Both drive with a maturity beyond their years, are good on ovals and road courses, and seem to have absorbed the notion that "if you can't win, maximize your points," that is necessary for a title run.  I expect several years of great battles between them. 

 

I think I'll go with Herta because of the strength of the team around him, but it's not clear cut.

 

Palou may surprise with Ganassi resources.

Veekay will win a few, I believe, but I'm not confident about Carpenter's ability to sustain him in a title run.

Ferrucci needs to get over making silly mistakes.

[Imperial]

Colton all the way.

[PayasYouRace]

Colton is the only one I’d say is ready for a championship challenge now. He’s my pick.

[Afterburner]

Pato O’Ward (or Patio as my phone thinks he should be named) is my choice, because he was third behind Dixon and Sato for a good chunk of the season if my memory serves me correctly and simply looks natural running at the front. I don’t remember any major mistakes from him either whereas I can remember Herta putting it in the wall a few times on bad days last year.

[SenorSjon]

I think it depends where each driver ends up. I don't think Carpenter can sustain a season long title challenge vs the might of 3-4 car teams. McLaren will self destruct in some way. Palou is in the prime seat at Ganassi I would say.

 

Since 2013, you're either Dixon or in a Penske to win the championship. Since no young ones are in a Penske (maybe Veekay in the future? He was the highest Chevy at Indy for a while) it is very hard to tell. It really depends on future moves.

[Anja]

Definitely between Pato and Herta. The others might be good but these two are on a whole different level for me, proper superstar potential. 

Edited by Anja, 13 November 2020 - 16:40.

[maximilian]

Colton definitely has the best equipment to do it right now... remains to be seen if Palou's Ganassi ride is tops, or EdJonesish.  Other than that, if McLaren shapes up, Pato obviously has a real shot at the title.  Veekay won't have the quality ride he needs next year, but who knows... he might end up elsewhere soon, too.  The only one I really CAN'T see doing it would be Luciferruci.  Talent-wise, he appears to be a step below the others among this group (other issues notwithstanding).

[juicy sushi]

For me, it's Herta by a nose over Pato, but that may have been because Colton was in his second full season.  I don't think Carpenter could provide title-challenging equipment for VK, but I don't foresee him staying at Carpenter for very much longer if he keeps performing like this.  

 

Palou won the audition for the hot seat, but next year will be the real trial by fire.  Chip has shown he has no patience, so Palou won't get very much time to go from promising young potential to "title contender" status, if he actually can make that jump.

 

And Santino.  Well, if you haven't got anything nice to say...

[Beri]

Why is Herta the absolute favorite?

[juicy sushi]

There was one Ferrucci fan among us who has backed their curly-haired horse.  I'd love for that person to share their perspective a bit, because I'd like to know what they're seeing that I'm missing.

[juicy sushi]

Why is Herta the absolute favorite?

4 poles, 3 wins, and 4 podiums in his first 32 IndyCar races is probably why.  I can't recall any rookie showing up with those kinds of numbers since Montoya, or before him Zanardi, Villeneuve, and Tracy.  He's had good equipment, but he's also delivered in it.  

Edited by juicy sushi, 13 November 2020 - 17:56.

[red stick]

Why is Herta the absolute favorite?

Resources were the tiebreaker for me versus O'Ward. 

 

Herta's got a team that's proved capable of delivering Indy 500 wins and championships.  And in a year where things were clearly amiss at Andretti, Herta still managed to climb to third in the standings.  Imagine what can happen if the team is strong out of the gate next year.

 

Schmidt has proven capable of delivering in spots, but I'm not yet confident that what McLaren adds to the team, which is considerable on paper, actually adds the final elements.  It seems a touchy place to work, thus far.  And having Rosenqvist now to bounce things off for setups, etc., is an unknown--we have no idea how much of his prior success, or lack of same, was him or Ganassi. 

 

I'd be happy to be wrong--O'Ward seems a perfectly charming individual who'd make a great champion.

Edited by red stick, 13 November 2020 - 19:19.

[Peat]

There was one Ferrucci fan among us who has backed their curly-haired horse.  I'd love for that person to share their perspective a bit, because I'd like to know what they're seeing that I'm missing.

 

For the 'LOLZ'

[boomn]

My vote for Paddy O'Ward over Herta is based on a optimistic projection of AMSP gaining ground as a team and a pessimistic project of Andretti being spread too thin.  And to be contrarian, but not Ferrucci levels of contrarian

[SenorSjon]

VK to replace Simon in 2022 and having a fierce title battle with the others. One can dream. Especially if Simon has a similar year to this one.

[GlenWatkins]

My vote is for Pato.  I think that the technical know how that McLaren brings to the team will springboard that team to the level of the 3 big teams.  That and Pato has shown that he has the speed and the maturity to be a champion.

 

Rooting for Herta, too.  He's on a great team and has all the talent on the track needed too win.  He is the favorite as the poll shows, but I always pick the underdog hence Pato.

 

Santucci?  Personally, I hope that his IndyCar career is a short one, and it ends before someone gets hurt.

 

Don't know much about Veekay, he could be the dark horse in this competition.

[jonpollak]

GW echo's my thoughts pretty well here

 

Herta's the bomb at the moment but if McSchmidt can use their "resources" and go up a notch maybe I'll pick Patio !

 

Jp

[paulb]

I voted for Pato. Been a fan of his for a while (back when he drove open cockpit prototypes). He has a ton of speed. After a surprisingly strong first full season, I think he will only gain in confidence and maturity.

Colton is a great kid too. His hair is fricking amazing.

[Joseki]

O'Ward

 

Why?

 

Because PATOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[boomn]

Also, if I was going to be recovering in a hospital I would certainly request the Patio Ward

[GlenWatkins]

Colton is a great kid too. His hair is fricking amazing.

 

I know, right?  Being follically challenged myself I am envious of the magnificent mop of hair he has!

[red stick]

Also, if I was going to be recovering in a hospital I would certainly request the Patio Ward

That might ease the post-operative Herta'n. 

[H0R]

Chose Herta but could have picked O'Ward just as much. It will come down to the team, obviously. 

[FLB]

 

 

[Beri]

Pato and Colton are the two favorites to me considering the resources they have available to become successful. They have a team that is being molded around them. Palou needs to adapt and fit in at a team which is big already. But then again, he can learn from Scotty D.
VeeKay is the one who is at a team that operates in the shadows. Some nice results would certainly open doors for him. Let's hope the Captain will reserve a spot for him in the near future. Because if SPAM is indeed evolving into a top team, then you'll have Pato there, VeeKay at Penske, Herta at Andretti and Palou at Ganassi. Imagine this turning out to become a fourway battle for the title with those guys. Exciting possibilities ahead.

A reserved mention for Askew also. I do hope he will find a seat. Because all in all, he is a great talent as well.

[rghojai]

I at least dont despise Ferrucci. Wanna say he's finished 7th and 4th in the last 2 Indy 500s, was brilliant in wet qualifying in Ohio (I think). Of course he's all too capable of effing it up spectacularly, but he's 22 and I'm not convinced he's incapable of getting his head out of his backside.

Never too early for 2022 speculation. In 2021, SF is much smarter behind the wheel, Pags and Power are mediocre, Penske signs SF to a one-year deal.

[rghojai]

Oh and because it's IndyCar, of course I managed to not answer the basic question. I choose Herta, for the above-mentioned reasons and the presence of his father.

[SenorSjon]

The obvious choice doesn't consider things going full Indycar. I expected better from you lot.

[FLB]

The obvious choice doesn't consider things going full Indycar. I expected better from you lot.

Going full-IndyCar! would be Ferrucci, but things are generally fairly sane over a season. The Universe can only take so much chaos.

 

Personally, over the next five years, I'm not counting out McLaughlin (because Penske).

[juicy sushi]

I at least dont despise Ferrucci. Wanna say he's finished 7th and 4th in the last 2 Indy 500s, was brilliant in wet qualifying in Ohio (I think). Of course he's all too capable of effing it up spectacularly, but he's 22 and I'm not convinced he's incapable of getting his head out of his backside.

Never too early for 2022 speculation. In 2021, SF is much smarter behind the wheel, Pags and Power are mediocre, Penske signs SF to a one-year deal.

Interesting, thanks for this.  I don't think I agree, but it's a lot for me to think about.

 

I don't think SF is Penske material, and I am not sure he'd mesh well with Newgarden and the team vibe.  That being said, there will be a third seat open there soon, and it will be interesting to see who fills it.

[FLB]

 

I don't think SF is Penske material, and I am not sure he'd mesh well with Newgarden and the team vibe.  That being said, there will be a third seat open there soon, and it will be interesting to see who fills it.

Bold prediction: That's why VK re-signed for ECR, short term. It's where's he'll be headed in 2022.

[juicy sushi]

Bold prediction: That's why VK re-signed for ECR, short term. It's where's he'll be headed in 2022.

Not a bad shout at all.

[red stick]

Bold prediction: That's why VK re-signed for ECR, short term. It's where's he'll be headed in 2022.

2022 could certainly see a lot of shuffling with contracts ending.  This makes a lot of sense.

[red stick]

Never too early for 2022 speculation. In 2021, SF is much smarter behind the wheel, Pags and Power are mediocre, Penske signs SF to a one-year deal.

If this happens I

will be forced, forced I say, to

abandon haiku.

[Burtros]

Herta. He’s showed something really special I think.

That said Pato is almost a year behind and also looks like he’d be ready for a title run if McLaren can sort the car out over a year.

VK was excellent to this year too and I think the future is in great hands with these guys.

[rghojai]

If this happens I
will be forced, forced I say, to
abandon haiku.

Be still my old heart
But I'm old enough to know
Lawyers are lawyers

[red stick]

Caught the limerick escape clause, did you?  

[Alfisti]

No love for scotty? He is in the right car and was seriously, seriously quick in a deep v8sc field.

He also has experience in championship battles in a tier one series.

If he gells with his engineer I think he will be an absolute force on road and street, big question is can he adapt to ovals?

Edited by Alfisti, 15 November 2020 - 19:12.

[Risil]

Damn right! There's lots to look forward to in Indycar these next few years. Although they do need to sort out Indy Lights. I hope this vaccine is all it's cracked up to be.

[Beri]

VK to Penske draws a parallel with Newgarden, now doesn't it?

[red stick]

Herta or O'Ward seem the obvious choices, but I'm torn about which will be first.  Both drive with a maturity beyond their years, are good on ovals and road courses, and seem to have absorbed the notion that "if you can't win, maximize your points," that is necessary for a title run.  I expect several years of great battles between them. 

 

I think I'll go with Herta because of the strength of the team around him, but it's not clear cut.

 

Palou may surprise with Ganassi resources.

Veekay will win a few, I believe, but I'm not confident about Carpenter's ability to sustain him in a title run.

Ferrucci needs to get over making silly mistakes.

 

Things found while looking for other things in the search feature.  Crystal balls were a bit cloudy.

[Peat]

Good thread. 

I assumed Palou would go the way of every other driver in the cursed #10. He's been sublime, out-Dixon'ing Dixon. At the events you don't notice him, he winds up in the top 6. 

Edited by Peat, 29 June 2021 - 12:14.

[Lennat]

I never got the impression the other drivers in the #10 car were quite good enough, and then it's easy to blame the car/team. But I hardly noticed Palou last year, and thought he would be closer to Marcus than Dixon. I'm very happy to be wrong though, and it's great to see Ganassi having what looks like a potential proper Dixon successor. 

[jonpollak]

It’s also the way the engineering side has been arranged this year.

Jp

[red stick]

It’s also the way the engineering side has been arranged this year.
Jp

No small thing, but Palou was also able to take advantage of it immediately--winning right out of the box was impressive.

[maximilian]

Indeed.  I am trying to think whether he has made ANY mistakes so far this season... spins?  Can't recall.  Crashes, avoidable collisions?  Were there any?  Other mess-ups?  Nothing comes to mind.

[red stick]

I never got the impression the other drivers in the #10 car were quite good enough, and then it's easy to blame the car/team. But I hardly noticed Palou last year, and thought he would be closer to Marcus than Dixon. I'm very happy to be wrong though, and it's great to see Ganassi having what looks like a potential proper Dixon successor. 

I had to go back and look up Kanaan, who had the ride for four years and managed one win and five more podiums in his first year, 2014, then never really figured after that, falling to three podiums in 2015, two in 2016, and one in 2017, with an average finish in his last year of 13th.  Hardly Franchittiesque.  It will be interesting to see how Palou handles the pressure in the latter part of the season--he seems unflappable.

[maximilian]

Hell, I don't even remember Palou having a Will-Power-esque grass ride this season yet so far...

[BRG]

No votes for Jimmie Johnson?