140 replies to this topic

[owenmahamilton]

I wonder which Aston Martin model will be used.

 

https://www.autospor...fety-car-duties

 

 

[Risil]

I thought "Is the safety car expensive? Why do two manufacturers need to share the burden?", but then I saw
 

The current Mercedes safety car is the fastest in the sport's history, having been upgraded from the start of the 2018 season.

Its 4.0-litre V8 twin-turbo engine produces 585hp and it can reach a top speed of 198mph. The safety car is driven by Bernd Maylander.

 

Wow!

[Marklar]

they share everything at this point

[frosty125]

I thought "Is the safety car expensive? Why do two manufacturers need to share the burden?", but then I saw


Wow!

I'm sure both Aston Martin and Mercedes pay for the privilege of providing the safety cars.

[Zoe]

they share everything at this point

 

Indeed; at first I read the thread title as "Mercedes and Aston Martin to share the car in 2021". OK, not so much difference to 2020 then 

[Beri]

And still I'm impressed how much effort Stroll Sr. has done to improve the involvement and visibility of Aston Martin in Formula One.

[Zoe]

So far I have seen "Aston Martin" printed on the rear wings of the Red Bulls, powered by non Aston-Martin engines 

[HP]

I thought "Is the safety car expensive? Why do two manufacturers need to share the burden?", but then I saw
 

 

Wow!

Yet we hear drivers constantly complaining how slow those safety cars are, and specifically about loss of tyre temperature. What the safety cars lacks is the downforce levels of an F1 racing car. Top speed alone means not much. 

 

Given all the talk around here about the race in Turkey and the cars unable to generate enough heat, it is astonishing that no one called for the banning of those safety cars. My idea however would be to use an older F1 car as safety car, and have an experienced F1 driver without a seat in any team drive that thing. At least then they could hurry up more, and since it's an F1 car the safety car driver would be more aware of the tyre situation. They also would have a less biased opinions when the track is wet. Right now some drivers call to go for it, while other say it's impossible to drive. With the current safety cars, how can Maylander  judge those situations? The Merc is so different from an F1 car. 

[taz]

I wonder which Aston Martin model will be used.

 

https://www.autospor...fety-car-duties

Some sites speculating it will be a DBX

[ARTGP]

Some sites speculating it will be a DBX

 

I would not be mad about that. It's a brilliant idea. Aston basically needs the DBX to be a smashing success. DBX must do for Aston Martin what the Cayenne did for Porsche.

[CountDooku]

I wonder which Aston Martin model will be used.

https://www.autospor...fety-car-duties

Surely it must be the Valkyrie so that Hamilton can stop complaining it’s too slow!
If you believe Adrian it’s faster than an F1 car. 🙄

[SophieB]

I know it adds very little to the discourse but I always vaguely wish I could drive that safety car when I see it in action. It looks a fun drive.

[CountDooku]

I would not be mad about that. It's a brilliant idea. Aston basically needs the DBX to be a smashing success. DBX must do for Aston Martin what the Cayenne did for Porsche.

The DBX is a boat and would be slower than the E63 medical car. It’s 100% going to be a Vantage, which is basically the AMG GT in a Saville Row suit.

[jjcale]

So are they just gonna paint the current merc safety car green and call it an Aston?

[Pete_f1]

I always think how heavy the saftey car looks. Something a bit more sporty might be a bit better

[taz]

This is a V8 Vantage from 2019

 

[Zoe]

I always think how heavy the saftey car looks. Something a bit more sporty might be a bit better

 

It's the sign of the times (also known as zeitgeist). Be happy that it isn't an overpowered SUV.

[Jovanotti]

Release the Vulcan Although the danger is it would sound better than the whole F1 field combined.

[Fastcake]

I'm not sure I remember the last time the safety car wasn't a Mercedes. Certainly as long as I've been a fan!

 

In a small way it'll be nice to see something different, even if an Aston Martin is almost a Mercedes under the hood nowadays.

[FirstnameLastname]

Renault Clio was the best safety car...

[SophieB]

I thought "Is the safety car expensive? Why do two manufacturers need to share the burden?", but then I saw
 

 

Wow!

I guess I still wonder about your implied question. Isn’t the buying of the car the biggest expense? Is it way more expensive than I think to move it around the world with the rest of the freight?

[AustinF1]

I know it adds very little to the discourse but I always vaguely wish I could drive that safety car when I see it in action. It looks a fun drive.

It is! I drove a few fast laps around COTA in one like it ... and yeah, it was an absolute blast. Sooo much fun! In fact, it was the very same green #1 GT R that Lewis drove Bolt around COTA in a few weeks earlier...

 

 

Edited by AustinF1, 17 November 2020 - 19:52.

[r4mses]

So what about the driver? Mayländer driving both? I imagine it's not that easy to switch between the cars and adapt when you dont have tons of laps to get used to the new car.

[New Britain]

And still I'm impressed how much effort Stroll Sr. has done to improve the involvement and visibility of Aston Martin in Formula One.

You mean by buying his son a seat, and then buying a team to ensure that his son would always have a seat?

[boomn]

I guess I still wonder about your implied question. Isn’t the buying of the car the biggest expense? Is it way more expensive than I think to move it around the world with the rest of the freight?

 

My guess is that the cost to ship the car around the world for a season as well as service it for every weekend costs more than just the car. I wonder if they are air-freighting the safety car from one race to the next, or if they have two that are juggled around by sea and truck to get to alternating weekends?

[ARTGP]

I guess I still wonder about your implied question. Isn’t the buying of the car the biggest expense? Is it way more expensive than I think to move it around the world with the rest of the freight?

 

Are these cars really ever "bought"? It's a sponsorship agreement I think.

 

and at worst, the car's value is the "at cost" value.  Which is thousands of dollars less than the dealer cost for the same model.

[jensfan09]

My guess is that the cost to ship the car around the world for a season as well as service it for every weekend costs more than just the car. I wonder if they are air-freighting the safety car from one race to the next, or if they have two that are juggled around by sea and truck to get to alternating weekends?

I’d say they’d have at least 4, 2 at the current race and 2 in transit to the next race or a future race.

They could have more, probably won’t make much difference to Mercedes, they have thousands of vehicles on loan all over the world.

Edited by jensfan09, 17 November 2020 - 20:13.

[jensfan09]

Are these cars really ever "bought"? It's a sponsorship agreement I think.

and at worst, the car's value is the "at cost" value. Which is thousands of dollars less than the dealer cost for the same model.

Yeah the vehicles would be provided through sponsorship, this will include maintenance and the staff to look after them during race weekends, transportation would be handled by DHL through a sponsorship deal as well! I’d say there would be very little cost for the FIA, probably just the drivers!

The sharing of the safety car between Merc and Aston would have to do with their own increased partnership than actual cost to the company, providing these vehicles wouldn’t even be a blip on their balance sheet!

Edited by jensfan09, 17 November 2020 - 20:18.

[smitten]

I guess I still wonder about your implied question. Isn’t the buying of the car the biggest expense? Is it way more expensive than I think to move it around the world with the rest of the freight?

There's the maintenance team, spares, etc .  Freighting I would assume is covered by FOM with all the other essential gear.  Capital cost of the cars is probably pretty low compared to what they cost to run and maintain. (I assume tyres are free from Pirelli, but who knows...)

[midgrid]

The cars should race each other around the circuit on Thursday to determine which one gets to be the Safety Car for the remainder of the event.

[mp4x]

Yet we hear drivers constantly complaining how slow those safety cars are, and specifically about loss of tyre temperature. What the safety cars lacks is the downforce levels of an F1 racing car. Top speed alone means not much.

Given all the talk around here about the race in Turkey and the cars unable to generate enough heat, it is astonishing that no one called for the banning of those safety cars. My idea however would be to use an older F1 car as safety car, and have an experienced F1 driver without a seat in any team drive that thing. At least then they could hurry up more, and since it's an F1 car the safety car driver would be more aware of the tyre situation. They also would have a less biased opinions when the track is wet. Right now some drivers call to go for it, while other say it's impossible to drive. With the current safety cars, how can Maylander judge those situations? The Merc is so different from an F1 car.

It's not possible, because as far as I know they keep the engine running during the race and all of us here know how much time and effort it takes to start an F1 engine (even the older ones).

[boomn]

Yet we hear drivers constantly complaining how slow those safety cars are, and specifically about loss of tyre temperature. What the safety cars lacks is the downforce levels of an F1 racing car. Top speed alone means not much. 

 

Given all the talk around here about the race in Turkey and the cars unable to generate enough heat, it is astonishing that no one called for the banning of those safety cars. My idea however would be to use an older F1 car as safety car, and have an experienced F1 driver without a seat in any team drive that thing. At least then they could hurry up more, and since it's an F1 car the safety car driver would be more aware of the tyre situation. They also would have a less biased opinions when the track is wet. Right now some drivers call to go for it, while other say it's impossible to drive. With the current safety cars, how can Maylander  judge those situations? The Merc is so different from an F1 car. 

The safety car is supposed to be slow while there are dangers on track or people still outside the barriers.  The problem there is the Pirelli tires whose performance window is too temperature sensitive.  I guess there is something to be said for the window between the track being clear and the safety car coming in when a faster safety car could then pick up the pace, but the drivers do seem to be able to handle it despite the radio complaints we hear (that the drivers are making even though they know it doesn't change anything and that the cars behind them are in the same situation*)

 

*unless they just finished unlapping themselves

[ARTGP]

It's not possible, because as far as I know they keep the engine running during the race and all of us here know how much time and effort it takes to start an F1 engine (even the older ones).

 

T Ferrari, Renault, and Honda can be started off of the ERS system. Push button start like your personal vehicle. I think something like a 2016 era car could do it.

Edited by ARTGP, 17 November 2020 - 22:12.

[vlado]

they share everything at this point

 

[boomn]

T Ferrari, Renault, and Honda can be started off of the ERS system. Push button start like your personal vehicle. I think something like a 2016 era car could do it.

That works for restarting the engine after a stall or temporarily turning the engine off, but for a startup on a cold engine don't they still all rely on external tools hooked up to the car to bring everything up to temperature evenly and properly to avoid damage?  I thought I remembered, at least in previous F1 generations, the engines couldn't even turn over when cold because the tolerances were so tight the cylinders could only move once the block was warm

[ARTGP]

That works for restarting the engine after a stall or temporarily turning the engine off, but for a startup on a cold engine don't they still all rely on external tools hooked up to the car to bring everything up to temperature evenly and properly to avoid damage?  I thought I remembered, at least in previous F1 generations, the engines couldn't even turn over when cold because the tolerances were so tight the cylinders could only move once the block was warm

 

ah yes. They would. Good point.

Edited by ARTGP, 17 November 2020 - 22:42.

[Pimpwerx]

So, will Aston Martin become an official sister team? It seems like their relationship with Mercedes is even closer than Racing Point's

[stevesingo]

I think it would be great for all manufacturers involved in F1 to be given the option of having a safety car slot.

 

Merc, Aston, McLaren, Ferrari, Alfa, Honda, Renault.

 

Well, maybe not Renault.

[PayasYouRace]

Yet we hear drivers constantly complaining how slow those safety cars are, and specifically about loss of tyre temperature. What the safety cars lacks is the downforce levels of an F1 racing car. Top speed alone means not much. 

 

Given all the talk around here about the race in Turkey and the cars unable to generate enough heat, it is astonishing that no one called for the banning of those safety cars. My idea however would be to use an older F1 car as safety car, and have an experienced F1 driver without a seat in any team drive that thing. At least then they could hurry up more, and since it's an F1 car the safety car driver would be more aware of the tyre situation. They also would have a less biased opinions when the track is wet. Right now some drivers call to go for it, while other say it's impossible to drive. With the current safety cars, how can Maylander  judge those situations? The Merc is so different from an F1 car. 

 

If anything, Turkey showed that the concerns of tyre temperature in F1 are more than a little exaggerated. There's no reason to keep pushing the performance of the safety car up just because the F1 drivers complain. As long as it's not stupidly slow, it's fine. Any high performance GT car will do the job.

 

The safety car also needs a crew of two. A driver to concentrate on driving, and the assistant to does all the lights, wave arounds, etc. He's also able to provide a second pair of eyes in the car, which is a great safety benefit.

[mp4x]

ah yes. They would. Good point.

That was exactly my point. One of the reasons behind delaying the release of Mercedes Project One was they had to pump hot oil into the engine before starting it, so it's the same problem with that theory.

[Myrvold]

And still I'm impressed how much effort Stroll Sr. has done to improve the involvement and visibility of Aston Martin in Formula One.

 

Yup. At the expense of the Hypercar and GTE Pro effort. I wish F1 was added, not instead of. Can't get it all I guess

[kumo7]

Why not let all manufacturers run its top of the sporting line road car as the safety car, at its own bed?

Would be nice to see McLaren, Honda, and Alpine super monsters...

[SilverArrow31]

Some sites speculating it will be a DBX

 

I'm not sure if this has already been said but the sites I've seen are stating that the DBX will act as the medical car, The safety car itself will almost certainly be a Vantage. With both vehicles heavily modified.

Edited by SilverArrow31, 18 November 2020 - 01:43.

[FLB]

Yup. At the expense of the Hypercar and GTE Pro effort. I wish F1 was added, not instead of. Can't get it all I guess

With the current state of Aston's finances, that's all they can do. Hopefully they can make F1 profitable for Newport Pagnell...

[Blue6ix]

I'm not sure I remember the last time the safety car wasn't a Mercedes. Certainly as long as I've been a fan!

 

In a small way it'll be nice to see something different, even if an Aston Martin is almost a Mercedes under the hood nowadays.

 

Last time when a different Safety Car was used (As in shared rule with their official and with a possibility to have also an organizers choices or choices provided by firms like AllSport.) were in 1996 Japanese Grand Prix when there was Mercedes-Benz C36 and of course a neat Renault Megane Coupe as a Official Safety Car, but also a Honda NSX was used as a Safety Car with as an organizers choice.

 

Last time with a strict sharing rules when a different Safety Car was used were in 1996 Portuguese Grand Prix also with Mercedes-Benz C36 and with Renault Megane Coupe.

 

Safety Car sharing rule came in to the force in the middle of 1996 season, starting with the 1996 French Grand Prix.

 

So the last time without really too strict sharing rule and with permission also with their own Official Safety Car Provider (then meaning Renault.) when the different Safety Car was also used with Renault in this case were in the 1996 Canadian Grand Prix when a Pontiac was used.

 

Though when in the years of 1992-1996 there was a one official provider of the Safety Car (First Ford for the years of 1992-1993 and then Renault for the years 1994-1996.) there were the possibility to use organizers or the different motorsport corporations choices as a Safety Car. Therefore even though The Official Safety Car for the years of 1992-1993 and 1994-1996 (First Ford Escort RS Cosworth and then Renault Alpine A610 Turbo Special with eventually Renault Clio Maxi and Renault Megane Coupe.) were used somewhat commonly, they really weren't the only ones that were used as a Safety Car back then.

 

Also there was a special case with Renault abandoning the sport back in the 1997 European Grand Prix when right back the end of the race there was a famous off-season pictures with then departing Renault Megane Coupe and then emerging Mercedes-Benz and their Safety Car having their final demonstration laps with Williams and Benetton cars and with each other to have so-called 'torches' relieved and relayed to one another for their own future.

 

And finally, the last time without any sharing rule at all to use a Safety Car was either in the 1973 Canadian Grand Prix when a Porsche 914 was used as a Safety Car for the first time at all or if you're counting Course Car era as in Safety Car's predecessor too then that was in the 1991 Australian Grand Prix when a quite neat looking BMW got used as a Course Car and without red flags to intefere (Before eventually organizers had it with all bad weather and rain back then.) so that has been a quite a long time ago.

 

As for the perspectives and with now modern times, that could be quite a refreshing change to things.

 

As in how the things have been running.

Edited by Blue6ix, 18 November 2020 - 04:58.

[SB]

I wonder which Aston Martin model will be used.

 

https://www.autospor...fety-car-duties

 

Would it be just a Mercedes-AMG GT painted in pink, ammm .... green ?   

[pitlanepalpatine]

So plot twist, after his performance the previous races Aston hired Vettel to drive their safety car and Perez is actually staying on?   

[BRG]

So plot twist, after his performance the previous races Aston hired Vettel to drive their safety car and Perez is actually staying on?   

Hmm, a poor choice then.  We don't need the safety car facing in the wrong direction every other corner.

 

As for comments about the speed of the safety car, there is a failure to understand the point of a SC period.  It is to SLOW the race down to allow marshals to clear up whatever incident has happened in safety, and also to keep the number of laps lost to the SC period to a minimum.  So a slow safety car is what is needed.  Pandering to F1's obsession with tyre temperatures is nonsense.  No other race series needs tyres freshly baked by your Nana because the drivers can cope with cold tyres.

[Marklar]

the point of the SC is to bunch the field together, so that the marshalls have longer intervalls to clear the track, not to slow them down, even if that would increase the intervalls, but you always have to hit the balance here: too slow means cold tyres and thus more Safety Cars.

[ar1]

Renault Clio was the best safety car...

 

Along with the Vauxhall (Opel) Vectra