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Low-grip circuits: the way forward?


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Poll: Poll time (104 member(s) have cast votes)

Should F1 hold more races like Turkey?

  1. Yes, challenging conditions bring out the best in Grand Prix racing (39 votes [37.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 37.50%

  2. No, I don't want to see F1 on ice (50 votes [48.08%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 48.08%

  3. I disagree with the framing of the question; I'll explain below (15 votes [14.42%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 14.42%

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#1 Risil

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 14:24

Remember the 2010 Canadian Grand Prix? Not the one that swallowed whole the BBC's Sunday evening schedule in order to tell us that Jenson Button is quite good in changeable weather, that was 2011. The one where the track surface didn't agree with the tyres Bridgestone had brought, resulting in a spectacle of rapid degradation and passing which the Powers That Be decreed would thenceforth be the model for all F1 races to follow. Bernie asked Pirelli to build tyres that when they were good they were very good and when they were bad they were horrid, Pirelli asked Bernie where their cheque was, Bernie said the cheque was in the post, and lo, history was made.
 
The point of this ramble is that sometimes you get a weird but exciting race that F1's malcontents latch onto and say "THIS is what Grand Prix racing should be all about." Was the Turkish Grand Prix one of these? Should F1 lean on its tracks to repave with radically low-grip tarmac? Is there another way they can reduce grip to a minimum? Is this Sprinkers Redux?
 
Anyway Autosport has done a nice write-up of the contrasting opinions. Here are some quotes.
 
Ross Brawn:
 

"I think drivers sometimes need to remember it's a competition of who crosses the line first so while grip levels weren't high, it was the same for everyone.

"Some drivers got their head down and came to terms with it, others found it a distraction.

"Having a challenging surface as we had this weekend was no bad thing. It showed a driver's talent to the max. I don't think grip levels are a measure of the level of competition you will have.

"Competition needs to be fair and equal. It's a sport, so we need to give everyone same opportunity. It's challenging, but that should be seen as good thing."

 
Daniel Ricciardo:
 

"[T]his is not the answer.

"Look, don't get me wrong, and I knew everyone sitting on the couch had a fun and exciting one to watch, but, I think to be honest, I don't know if we learn anything from this weekend.

"We'll probably never come to a situation like it again with this level of group. I think as well when teams are spending so much money developing cars and putting all the knowledge into designing the fastest race cars in the world, not being able to use them....if it was all the time, it would feel like a robbery.

"It's like why are we putting so much into these cars if we can't actually push the limits?"


Anyway, if it's interesting enough for Danny Ric and Ross Brown to weigh in on, it's presumably interesting enough for us to go on and on about until the next unexpected incident makes us forget all about it. What do you think?



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#2 Imperial

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 14:26

Low grip and wet conditions made for an entertaining race.

 

A few drivers moaned, which was as predictable as the sun coming up. They literally would ask for rails to be installed on tracks if they thought it would happen.

 

There clearly is no fix to the atrocity that is F1 aerodynamics, so yeah as little grip as possible is basically the key to these dullards having to start earning their pay for a change.



#3 JeePee

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 14:28

If the outlier becomes the norm, they adapt and it get's boring.

 

You also effect all other classes.

 

Downforce, and thus dirty air, was still hugely present.

 

Better and cheaper way is to downsize the goddamn snow shovel of a front and rear wing, while keeping the same engine powers.



#4 Rodaknee

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 14:28

What a joke.  The tracks are not for the sole use of F1 - and that includes the races that take place on the same weekend.

 

This just shows how bankrupt F1 is.  So bad that stupid errors become potential policy.  Time for Ross Brawn to retire and take his moronic ideas with him.

 

I don't know what Gary Anderson is on, but he believes it was an *experiment*.

 

https://the-race.com...rip-experiment/


Edited by Rodaknee, 18 November 2020 - 14:31.


#5 ExEd

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 14:30

Remember the 2010 Canadian Grand Prix? Not the one that swallowed whole the BBC's Sunday evening schedule in order to tell us that Jenson Button is quite good in changeable weather, that was 2011. The one where the track surface didn't agree with the tyres Bridgestone had brought, resulting in a spectacle of rapid degradation and passing which the Powers That Be decreed would thenceforth be the model for all F1 races to follow. Bernie asked Pirelli to build tyres that when they were good they were very good and when they were bad they were horrid, Pirelli asked Bernie where their cheque was, Bernie said the cheque was in the post, and lo, history was made.
 
The point of this ramble is that sometimes you get a weird but exciting race that F1's malcontents latch onto and say "THIS is what Grand Prix racing should be all about." Was the Turkish Grand Prix one of these? Should F1 lean on its tracks to repave with radically low-grip tarmac? Is there another way they can reduce grip to a minimum? Is this Sprinkers Redux?
 
Anyway Autosport has done a nice write-up of the contrasting opinions. Here are some quotes.
 
Ross Brawn:
 

 
Daniel Ricciardo:
 


Anyway, if it's interesting enough for Danny Ric and Ross Brown to weigh in on, it's presumably interesting enough for us to go on and on about until the next unexpected incident makes us forget all about it. What do you think?

 

 

Agree with Dan here. 

It will lead to more conservative approach and nursing, And we have that too much already.

The fully operational window for the teams will be as minimal as possible.

High risk versus low reward. 



#6 MinardiCrashDummy

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 14:32

If it became the norm teams would just build there cars to adapt to those conditios



#7 PayasYouRace

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 14:40

I think the lesson to be taken away from Turkey is that low grip isn’t a problem for F1, and there should be less striving for perfect conditions for every race. I don’t think every race should be like this one was by any means, but the lack of grip did make for entertaining racing. It wasn’t even particularly dangerous. We saw plenty of spins, but I don’t think anyone hit a wall apart from in the pit entry.



#8 Risil

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 14:44

Better and cheaper way is to downsize the goddamn snow shovel of a front and rear wing, while keeping the same engine powers.

When I first saw that F1 was proposing to go to the Nurburgring in late October and Istanbul in mid-November I thought they might need the cars to have an actual snow shovel.



#9 Requiem84

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 14:47

Tracks with less grip are enjoyable, because it adds unpredictability in an era where most unpredictability has been taken away. 

 

'Fixing the tracks' is a substitute for fixing F1. If the 2022 rules manage to fix F1, low grip tracks aren't needed... a low grip track every now and then for some diversification however should always be good :).



#10 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 14:48

I don't get the argument from Ricciardo that low grip doesn't allow the cars to be driven at the limit.  They're still driven at the limit, the limit is just lower.  I'm not aware of any law that defines what the natural grip level should be, it is what it happens to be.


Edited by Dmitriy_Guller, 18 November 2020 - 14:49.


#11 Izzyeviel

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 15:08

The Portugese GP gave us a few great laps at the start, and that was great to watch.

 

Not anyones fault, but Turkey was like watching a three-legged bambi on ice. It was fun at first but quickly turned into a farce.

 

We want to see drivers struggle when giving 100%, not struggle when giving 20%



#12 pdac

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 15:14

Low grip cars would be a much better idea. Also, it would be very good to put drivers out on cold tyres that they might not be able to get up to temperature very quickly, if at all.



#13 Beri

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 15:40

Low grip surface is, yet again, something artificial. So it's not the answer. To me.

#14 juicy sushi

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 15:47

These all seem like very roundabout ways of admitting the cars are crap because the rules are stupid, but F1 are collectively too incompetent to address that.



#15 Muppetmad

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 15:54

I think what we've learned this year is that variety is great. Going to the same circuits every year and giving drivers three free practice sessions leads to predictable races. We need a variety of circuits, with different demands for aerodynamic and mechanical grip.



#16 Lennat

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 16:00

I like when the conditions are less predictable. Makes it more about the driver and less about telemetry and and driving on rails guided by engineers.  



#17 Clatter

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 16:14

The Portugese GP gave us a few great laps at the start, and that was great to watch.

 

Not anyones fault, but Turkey was like watching a three-legged bambi on ice. It was fun at first but quickly turned into a farce.

 

We want to see drivers struggle when giving 100%, not struggle when giving 20%

 


That's the royal "we" I assume. Personally I was quite happy with the race, and if anything it was just when they switched on the DRS that I was disappointed.

#18 Clatter

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 16:16

Low grip surface is, yet again, something artificial. So it's not the answer. To me.

 


And high grip isn't artificial?

#19 pdac

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 16:16

I like when the conditions are less predictable. Makes it more about the driver and less about telemetry and and driving on rails guided by engineers.  

 

We all like less predictable. Sadly, less predictable is exactly what teams spend vast amounts of money trying to eliminate. Also, it's the thing that causes teams to veto many rule changes.



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#20 SenorSjon

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 16:18

The race could have been more fun if it stayed dry. Now it was just an oily, slippery mess with one sort-of racing line around the track. I love races where different lines give different opportunities, like the wet Brazilian GP's. In Turkey, you could dive on the inside and hope you lose enough speed to rejoin the track two corners later. 



#21 ANF

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 16:28

Turkey was a joke. I have never seen anything like it, the pundits and the drivers said they have never seen anything like it. Ricciardo is right to think that we will never see anything like it again.

Formula One Managing Director, Motorsport Ross Brawn ought to be ultimately responsible for signing a contract with Istanbul Park and not ensuring that they informed Pirelli of the plans to resurface the entire circuit with a totally different asphalt from the previous one. Not that Pirelli would have had a compound that would suit the laughable tarmac, which in dry conditions was as slippery as ice in FP1 and had oil leaking out of it the entire weekend, oil that coated the cars and made the wing mirrors unusable halfway into the race. As Verstappen said, "the state of the asphalt was ridiculous". The drivers barely dared to turn the steering wheel in the final corners for fear of spinning out of the race at 60 km/h.

If Ross Brawn had been technical director at Ferrari or team principal at Mercedes he would have agreed that the race was a joke. As managing director he wants us to believe it was a great show. It was not. As George Russell said, "that wasn't real racing".

#22 Afterburner

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 16:31

I personally thought this race was even better than Germany last year, and for the first time in a very long while, F1 actually "felt" similar to the way it did in 2003-2006. Possible reasons for this include the track not completely being an ocean of asphalt, the track and conditions being immensely challenging to the point where even the most highly-rated drivers were making mistakes, multiple teams having a turn at the front on strategy, and there actually being multiple viable strategy options without a clear-cut "best" strategy. As a race I think this one reminded me most of the USGP at Indy in 2003.

So rather than simply provide a low-grip surface at every track, I think F1 should focus on changing the package that gets brought to every track to make this situation a reality–namely build cars which are more challenging to drive (whiners like Ricciardo and Russell be damned) and don't need DRS to make overtakes possible, and provide tyres that ensure multiple viable strategies are available (failing that, bring back refueling if you have to). I think a lot of this could be suitably achieved by cutting downforce numbers and sending the majority of what remains to the underbody and turning the horsepower way up to compensate for the lap time lost from the missing downforce. Basically, they should follow the IndyCar model. Then if Pirelli could get their act together and provide tyres that can be pushed but fall off in a linear manner (ha) we'd be great. Hopefully the 2022 cars address a lot of this.

The last piece of the puzzle would be to make them sound primal again...

#23 AustinF1

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 16:34

I voted for the 3rd option because, while I want more challenging conditions for the drivers, one need not modify the track surfaces to achieve them. It would also be very expensive for the track owners, who are generally pretty cash-strapped these days as it is.

 

Like Afterburner said, it's the cars. Just severely restrict downforce.


Edited by AustinF1, 18 November 2020 - 17:18.


#24 AustinF1

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 16:41

Turkey was a joke. I have never seen anything like it, the pundits and the drivers said they have never seen anything like it. Ricciardo is right to think that we will never see anything like it again.

Formula One Managing Director, Motorsport Ross Brawn ought to be ultimately responsible for signing a contract with Istanbul Park and not ensuring that they informed Pirelli of the plans to resurface the entire circuit with a totally different asphalt from the previous one. Not that Pirelli would have had a compound that would suit the laughable tarmac, which in dry conditions was as slippery as ice in FP1 and had oil leaking out of it the entire weekend, oil that coated the cars and made the wing mirrors unusable halfway into the race. As Verstappen said, "the state of the asphalt was ridiculous". The drivers barely dared to turn the steering wheel in the final corners for fear of spinning out of the race at 60 km/h.

If Ross Brawn had been technical director at Ferrari or team principal at Mercedes he would have agreed that the race was a joke. As managing director he wants us to believe it was a great show. It was not. As George Russell said, "that wasn't real racing".

It was funny to hear the commentators rave on one hand about the great racing the lack of grip would produce, and then on the other hand try to figure out who was "to blame" for the track condition. The problem was not that the tarmac was different or 'laughably' bad. It's just that it was new. COTA had the same problem when it opened. It just wasn't quite as bad, largely because the surface wasn't just 10 days old.

 

 And it seems like Karun never gets tired of being wrong, this week saying repeatedly that oils in the new pavement were rising to the top, and that's why it was so slick. That would be true with older materials, but from what I've been told by guys in the industry, now they use very strong polymer sealants rather than oils. Even when new, if you touch it, it doesn't feel oily. It's dry, but very smooth. Until some of the polymer starts to wear off of the aggregate, the surface will often be very slick, esp when wet. Once it starts to wear off, the aggregate begins to be exposed, and there's more grip.
 
It's the same problem F1 had at COTA when it opened, but worse. I rode in the safety truck around COTA right after it was paved and again right before the GP weekend in 2012. It wasn't oily at all, but it was slick AF. It felt more like it was painted.

Edited by AustinF1, 18 November 2020 - 17:04.


#25 P123

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 16:42

Teams would adapt and it would no longer 'be like ice' to any of them.  We're still to an extent living through the error of Canada 2010 and what that brought.  But I'd agree they should trim off the downforce.  As impressive as these cars are in terms of cornering, they grew out of a misguided desire to create a larger laptime gap to GP2 and the notion that the cars were therefore too slow.



#26 ANF

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 16:44

Should F1 lean on its tracks to repave with radically low-grip tarmac? Is there another way they can reduce grip to a minimum?

I suppose going back to grooved slicks and narrow cars would be a start?

#27 Squeed

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 17:06

If they try to create the same surface on all tracks, the teams will simply engineer their way around the problem.  The only reason that the Turkey surface was a problem is that it’s very rare that they race on 2 week old tarmac.  Also, if this race had occurred in the dry, it’s not unlikely that the surface would begin to come apart in the middle of the race. 


Edited by Squeed, 18 November 2020 - 17:07.


#28 Squeed

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 17:09

 

It was funny to hear the commentators rave on one hand about the great racing the lack of grip would produce, and then on the other hand try to figure out who was "to blame" for the track condition. The problem was not that the tarmac was different or 'laughably' bad. It's just that it was new. COTA had the same problem when it opened. It just wasn't quite as bad, largely because the surface wasn't just 10 days old.

 

 And it seems like Karun never gets tired of being wrong, this week saying repeatedly that oils in the new pavement were rising to the top, and that's why it was so slick. That would be true with older materials, but from what I've been told by guys in the industry, now they use very strong polymer sealants rather than oils. Even when new, if you touch it, it doesn't feel oily. It's dry, but very smooth. Until some of the polymer starts to wear off of the aggregate, the surface will often be very slick, esp when wet. Once it starts to wear off, the aggregate begins to be exposed, and there's more grip.
 
It's the same problem F1 had at COTA when it opened, but worse. I rode in the safety truck around COTA right after it was paved and again right before the GP weekend in 2012. It wasn't oily at all, but it was slick AF. It felt more like it was painted.

 

True, the slickness is due to the small particles/sand in the tarmac (like a shuffleboard table) rather than oil. 



#29 noikeee

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 17:11

As a one off it was okay, it happened deal with it.

But I certainly don't think we should be trying to manufacture these conditions regularly. It's against the spirit of F1. It's like the cheese tyres introduced after Canada 2010 (or was it 2011?) all over again.

#30 Giz

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 17:18

Alternative thread title...

Low grip circuits: the way sideways?

#31 Izzyeviel

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 17:33

That's the royal "we" I assume. Personally I was quite happy with the race, and if anything it was just when they switched on the DRS that I was disappointed.

 I presumed everyone likes seeing cars try to go flat thru turn 8 and not tip toe at 50mph around it. It's like expecting footballers play a game when the pitch is covered in custard. its all fun and games, but then quickly gets quite silly. Portugal was fine, it got better after a few laps, this was just mickey mouse - as a one off, i don't mind, but we really don't want to see this again anytime soon.



#32 pdac

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 17:44

 I presumed everyone likes seeing cars try to go flat thru turn 8 and not tip toe at 50mph around it. It's like expecting footballers play a game when the pitch is covered in custard. its all fun and games, but then quickly gets quite silly. Portugal was fine, it got better after a few laps, this was just mickey mouse - as a one off, i don't mind, but we really don't want to see this again anytime soon.

 

I hate seeing cars going flat through any corner. The whole point of a corner for me is that cars have to slow and that drivers have to use their experience to judge how slow they need to go, what angle to take it at and where they need to start the slow-down process. Flat out corners are just useless - may as well just be straight.



#33 TomNokoe

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 17:46

I really enjoyed how different cars and drivers were quick at different phases of the race. Very difficult to replicate!

#34 P123

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 17:53

If they try to create the same surface on all tracks, the teams will simply engineer their way around the problem.  The only reason that the Turkey surface was a problem is that it’s very rare that they race on 2 week old tarmac.  Also, if this race had occurred in the dry, it’s not unlikely that the surface would begin to come apart in the middle of the race. 

People loved Canada 2010.  They have hated what that gave us ever since with the Pirelli tyres as an attempt at enhanced entertainment gone wrong.  If all surfaces were like Turkey it would likely take one dry race for the same to happen....  it was unusual for a wet race for there to be essentially just one line.  Maybe not so great for racing.



#35 Sterzo

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 17:54

We didn't need Turkey to show us that cars with lower grip are more entertaining to watch, because the drivers' efforts are more visible. Nor do we need the situation to be anywhere near as extreme as it was on Sunday.  You only have to look at other formulae and F1 in the past to see it.

 

As others have said, reduced downforce would help; but the easiest way is to have what we ought to have anyway, harder, durable tyres intended to last the race. An important factor, too, is the ability to run away from the the rubber line. The current tyres are a farcical waste, just at a time when environmental concerns should at least be acknowledged.



#36 ARTGP

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 18:02

I think as a variation, sure. But every single track shouldn't be like this. It will become predictable again. 3 or 4 ice rink tracks is fine.


Edited by ARTGP, 18 November 2020 - 18:03.


#37 Claymore25

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 18:25

No. Low grip circuits are not the solution.

 

F-1 needs to reduce the downforce on the cars and have Pirelli do better tyres.



#38 ARTGP

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 18:26

No. Low grip circuits are not the solution.

 

F-1 needs to reduce the downforce on the cars and have Pirelli do better tyres.

 

Downforce doesn't need to be reduced. Aero wash does. To an extent, they are separate things and F1's current position is on the poor end of what it could be.


Edited by ARTGP, 18 November 2020 - 18:27.


#39 Claymore25

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 18:29

Downforce doesn't need to be reduced. Aero wash does. To an extent, they are separate things and F1's current position is on the poor end of what it could be.

You are right. I was thinking in the aero stuff.



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#40 Burtros

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 18:38

Turkey was good because teams and drivers were prevented from making detailed strategy plans ahead of the race. They then had to make strategy and race calls on the fly with less information than they would normally have.

Whenever we see this, whatever the cause, we get better races. This time it was the surface that caused it.

So the focus shouldn’t be on surfaces, it needs to be on finding a way of making races harder for teams to strategise for in advance. They do it in so much detail these days the races are focused on following a plan A with a B and C in reserve, it’s really no wonder so many races are pants.

#41 AustinF1

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 18:44

Turkey was good because teams and drivers were prevented from making detailed strategy plans ahead of the race. They then had to make strategy and race calls on the fly with less information than they would normally have.

Whenever we see this, whatever the cause, we get better races. This time it was the surface that caused it.

So the focus shouldn’t be on surfaces, it needs to be on finding a way of making races harder for teams to strategise for in advance. They do it in so much detail these days the races are focused on following a plan A with a B and C in reserve, it’s really no wonder so many races are pants.

Like I and others have been saying, limit data acquisition and thus the ability to simulate to death every Qualifying and GP session.



#42 ARTGP

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 18:58

While I don't think all of the tracks should be turned slick. IF F1 wanted to have 1 race per season on a low grip surface, I wouldn't be opposed. But couldn't they just specify the hardest pirelli tires rather than changing the track? Would that not accomplish the same thing at much lower cost?


Edited by ARTGP, 18 November 2020 - 18:59.


#43 MasterOfCoin

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 19:04

We need low grip circuits, like we need tracks with jumps......



#44 pdac

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 19:19

Downforce doesn't need to be reduced. Aero wash does. To an extent, they are separate things and F1's current position is on the poor end of what it could be.

 

It doesn't need to be reduced, but I feel the racing would improve if it were. But the aero wash needs to be addressed as well.



#45 aisiai

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 19:42

While I don't think all of the tracks should be turned slick. IF F1 wanted to have 1 race per season on a low grip surface, I wouldn't be opposed. But couldn't they just specify the hardest pirelli tires rather than changing the track? Would that not accomplish the same thing at much lower cost?


Agreed with the first part - I'd take a race or two. No more.
About the hard tires - my perception was that in Turkey a lot of the drama was the differences of how car driver combos managed the inters in the latter stages. I do not think it will happen with hards.

Edited by aisiai, 18 November 2020 - 19:46.


#46 Burtros

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 19:45

Like I and others have been saying, limit data acquisition and thus the ability to simulate to death every Qualifying and GP session.


I am fully signed up to that way of thinking.

Death to Fridays!

#47 pitlanepalpatine

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 19:49

I think what we've learned this year is that variety is great. Going to the same circuits every year and giving drivers three free practice sessions leads to predictable races. We need a variety of circuits, with different demands for aerodynamic and mechanical grip.

 

Exactly, it's variety that's adding the spice. The reaction this thread has is funny though. We had tomato soup, a lot of people liked it but it didn't appeal to everyone. The responses to that are:

 

- Everyone should eat tomato soup forever.

- No one should ever make tomato again because that's not what cooking is about.

- Making tomato soup is an indictment of the chefs inability to make burgers and french fries and therefore he should be let go.

- No one should make tomato soup coz it's not a proper meal.

- Tomato soup isn't real food it's just tomato paste and water.

 

Okay that's enough tomato soup analogies.

 

Even under liberty we've seen that even though great goals have been touted the collaborative effort is still excessively risk averse and focused on keeping the status quo stable, so can we stop freaking out everytime an anamolous race makes the sport and the fans go "Well this was fun and interesting, are there any positives we can take away"? The 2022 regs aren't suddenly gonna involve putting cars on ice skates with rocket engines at the back.



#48 AustinF1

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 19:55

I am fully signed up to that way of thinking.

Death to Fridays!

I'm a big Friday fan. I don't think reducing practice time is necessary and it penalizes the circuits and the fans. Let them practice. Just limit the data acquisition during said practices.



#49 ARTGP

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 19:58

I'm a big Friday fan. I don't think reducing practice time is necessary and it penalizes the circuits and the fans. Let them practice. Just limit the data acquisition during said practices.

 

another idea proposed was to run young drivers on Fridays. 



#50 Kev00

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 20:00

I don’t think limited grip is the way forward. I didn’t that Canadian GP was the way forward. But likewise I don’t think every race should be the same. I want to see different races with different challenges. I want some races with 4 stops and some with maybe no stops. Some hot climates and some in cold. Everything should be a bit less predictable, but of course the teams and drivers would never agree to any of that. Just look at the reaction of the drivers in Turkey