219 replies to this topic

[Garagista]

I Still think Rosberg's Drive in Abu Dhabi 16 was one of the most impressive performance with the Championship on the line.

 

The way he had, first to overtake Max, as difficult as it  is, adding up to the specially horrible track to overtake, then later in the race, managing Lewis "mind-games", made hat evening performance one of the best title deciders IMO, lets say more in terms of managing the enormous pressure than pure performance at least.

[PlayboyRacer]

I do agree that he was (relatively) weak in title deciders. All accounts state that Schumacher was extremely nervous (and visibly so) on the Suzuka 2000 weekend.

Given that Ross Brawn alluded to this himself in recent times (citing Suzuka 1994 as an example) then yeah I think Michael had a weakness under extreme pressure/expectation. Perhaps literally his only weakness.

[aliefbielefeld]

I would've not put Hamilton's win last week as the best performance, not by a long stretch of miles, he can't overtake Vettel in the wet unlike a certain Albon guy, the only overtaking he did was passing Perez with the help of the almighty DRS. Sure his tyre management was great i mean why wouldn't it be when you have DAS and a drying track with the quickest car by miles in the dry.

 

As to why Bottas finished outside of the points with the same car? 

First of all Mercedes ruined Bottas mentally this season, the team seems like they don't give a damn about Bottas's request for a different strategy to Lewis. After that he probably realized he's going to be the number two in the team like Barrichello in Ferrari, that's why he lost his motivation and that translates to his performance in Turkey, also his below average wet weather skills certainly doesn't help either.

[MasterOfCoin]

I would've not put Hamilton's win last week as the best performance, not by a long stretch of miles, he can't overtake Vettel in the wet unlike a certain Albon guy, the only overtaking he did was passing Perez with the help of the almighty DRS. Sure his tyre management was great i mean why wouldn't it be when you have DAS and a drying track with the quickest car by miles in the dry.

 

As to why Bottas finished outside of the points with the same car? 

First of all Mercedes ruined Bottas mentally this season, the team seems like they don't give a damn about Bottas's request for a different strategy to Lewis. After that he probably realized he's going to be the number two in the team like Barrichello in Ferrari, that's why he lost his motivation and that translates to his performance in Turkey, also his below average wet weather skills certainly doesn't help either.

You mean Albon the guy with the 4 laps fresher intermediate tires....driving the car that can turn the tires on better in those conditions....By your logic if Albon overtakes Vettel it's the driver, Max btw was unable to overtake Vettel and he's rated as the better driver...And if Lewis overtakes Perez it's all down to DRS, DAS and a Merc.....If only Bottas wasn't so Mentally ruined he could have used DRS, DAS and his Merc to win the race.....I wonder at what point people are finally gonna realize that Bottas, just isn't on the same level as Lewis, and stop making excuses for him....

[rf90]

You mean Albon the guy with the 4 laps fresher intermediate tires....driving the car that can turn the tires on better in those conditions....By your logic if Albon overtakes Vettel it's the driver, Max btw was unable to overtake Vettel and he's rated as the better driver...And if Lewis overtakes Perez it's all down to DRS, DAS and a Merc.....If only Bottas wasn't so Mentally ruined he could have used DRS, DAS and his Merc to win the race.....I wonder at what point people are finally gonna realize that Bottas, just isn't on the same level as Lewis, and stop making excuses for him....

 

I believe everyone KNOWS that Bottas isn't as good as Hamilton. For me at least, it has meant the title has been a forgone conclusion for the last 4 years.

[P123]

You mean Albon the guy with the 4 laps fresher intermediate tires....driving the car that can turn the tires on better in those conditions....By your logic if Albon overtakes Vettel it's the driver, Max btw was unable to overtake Vettel and he's rated as the better driver...And if Lewis overtakes Perez it's all down to DRS, DAS and a Merc.....If only Bottas wasn't so Mentally ruined he could have used DRS, DAS and his Merc to win the race.....I wonder at what point people are finally gonna realize that Bottas, just isn't on the same level as Lewis, and stop making excuses for him....

I think one of the websites or publications worked out that Bottas spent the majority of the race warming up his tyres.  The Merc took 5-6 laps to get temp into them so every spin had an additional cost for him, and with tyres out of the operating window for so long it only increased the chance of further spins.  Which duly happened.  As for DAS, do Merc even run that anymore? 

[Peeko]

I would've not put Hamilton's win last week as the best performance, not by a long stretch of miles, he can't overtake Vettel in the wet unlike a certain Albon guy, the only overtaking he did was passing Perez with the help of the almighty DRS. Sure his tyre management was great i mean why wouldn't it be when you have DAS and a drying track with the quickest car by miles in the dry.

 

As to why Bottas finished outside of the points with the same car? 

First of all Mercedes ruined Bottas mentally this season, the team seems like they don't give a damn about Bottas's request for a different strategy to Lewis. After that he probably realized he's going to be the number two in the team like Barrichello in Ferrari, that's why he lost his motivation and that translates to his performance in Turkey, also his below average wet weather skills certainly doesn't help either.

I wouldn't either, but not because of who he couldn't overtake.

 

Every example put forth in this thread, not including Turkey, involved a battle between at least two individuals at the top of their game in equal or close to equal machinery. Lewis' title was never under threat this season. No one could snatch the title from him in Turkey and he didn't have to battle another competitor to win it. Its been Lewis against himself and the track rules all year.

Edited by Peeko, 25 November 2020 - 16:52.

[P123]

I believe everyone KNOWS that Bottas isn't as good as Hamilton. For me at least, it has meant the title has been a forgone conclusion for the last 4 years.

I never knew Bottas was driving a red Ferrari in 2017 and 2018.  Or is it a comfort thing to blanket over those years.

[Taxi]

Hakkinen 1999. All the pressure, starting behind Schumacher and then... Pam! Perfect performance. 

[FTB]

Hakkinen 1999. All the pressure, starting behind Schumacher and then... Pam! Perfect performance. 

Good pick. Another great pick would be Prost 1986 Adelaide. Schumacher 1995 at Pacific GP was very good too.

[milestone 11]

OT but Schumacher's first 5 laps in Suzuka 1998 are like nothing I've ever seen. Couldn't believe what I was seeing when I watched it for the first time a few months ago. Albeit with a big, huge, massive asterisk after botching the start.
 
21st to 7th in 4 laps?!

The pass on Wurz was just on another level. The cars look three times faster than today.

[George Costanza]

Suzuka 2000. The pressure on Schumacher was quite unbelievable... The whole country of Italy on his shoulders.

Edited by George Costanza, 26 November 2020 - 06:59.

[George Costanza]

Given that Ross Brawn alluded to this himself in recent times (citing Suzuka 1994 as an example) then yeah I think Michael had a weakness under extreme pressure/expectation. Perhaps literally his only weakness.

Yes this is true. Under extreme pressure, Michael would crack, as in Jerez 1997 for example or Suzuka 1998.

[George Costanza]

If we are going to nitpick, Suzuka 2000 was the average pit stop overtaking with minimal risk and maximum reward. Schumacher had more impressive races in 2000 itself, like Nurburgring.

Aida 1995 is a more impressive clincher, IMO.

i disagree significantly... Simply because Ferrari was waiting over 21 years to win a championship.

[Rinehart]

I Still think Rosberg's Drive in Abu Dhabi 16 was one of the most impressive performance with the Championship on the line.

 

The way he had, first to overtake Max, as difficult as it  is, adding up to the specially horrible track to overtake, then later in the race, managing Lewis "mind-games", made hat evening performance one of the best title deciders IMO, lets say more in terms of managing the enormous pressure than pure performance at least.

 

There was no pressure, German rear gunner Vettel who didn't want Hamilton winning another title was protecting him. 

[Rinehart]

Hakkinen 1999. All the pressure, starting behind Schumacher and then... Pam! Perfect performance. 

Yup that was a good one.

[shure]

There was no pressure, German rear gunner Vettel who didn't want Hamilton winning another title was protecting him. 

How exactly was he protecting him?  Rosberg only needed to finish 3rd to win the title.  There was nothing Vettel could have done to influence the result.

[Anuity]

No pressure for Rosberg in 2016 is a bold statement.
I find it hard to believe anybody is seriously thinking like that to themselves.
And his overtake of Max on such a difficult track was superb. Perfectly executed race by Nico and definitely one of the best races to win the title.

[Garagista]

How exactly was he protecting him?  Rosberg only needed to finish 3rd to win the title.  There was nothing Vettel could have done to influence the result.

 

That is why I mentioned "managing the Mind-Games", because that was the main issue for me and not the position itself.

 

The way Lewis was, and in my opinion justifiably as the Driver championship was in the line, going against team orders and playing with the Gap to Rosberg, that could easily make Rosberg go over the top and have a lock up, or some sort of other mistake just due to the sheer frustration of seeing Lewis being so stubborn accepting the defeat, but he managed it brilliantly IMO.  

[Mila]

Here's Adam Cooper's detailed breakdown of the Suzuka 2000 battle:

 

Japanese GP Race Analysis - F1 - Autosport

Edited by Mila, 26 November 2020 - 12:22.