133 replies to this topic

[Barry Boor]

Just musing before it became time to get up this morning, for no particular reason, I began to think about race circuits.  (A familiar subject with me!)

 

What was particular about this morning's thoughts was the fact that the old South Curve at the Nurburgring is gone.... completely and totally obliterated by the 'new' circuit.  Not a trace can still be seen.  Thus, I begun to think about other such situations.  One that came immediately to mind was the Gasworks Hairpin at Monaco - gone forever.

 

You may think that there are dozens of similar cases around the world, e.g. Crowthorne and Barbecue at Kyalami, but actually if the will was there, which of course, it never will be, there are quite a few that one would imagine were long gone but actually could, at a pinch, be resurrected.  I looked at Silverstone.  The original Becketts is still there, just waiting its chance to return, as is Virage du Gresil at Rouen.

 

So gentlemen, your challenge for today, should you dare to accept it, is to discuss corners and bends that have been destroyed beyond description and maybe a few that are laying there just waiting to come back to us. I've got some more but now it's over to you.

 

Good luck.

[Wirra]

[Barry Boor]

This is my point.  Look at Google Earth.  The full circuit is not destroyed.  It's there waiting to be brought back.  Although admittedly it may be a little more difficult with the Bosch and Rindt curves.

[ensign14]

Brooklands would look a lot better without that stupid warehouse thing obliterating the straight...

[opplock]

The Levin circuit closed in 1976 and "removed in its entirety there was no part of the circuit left". I was delighted to discover while flying from Christchurch to Palmerston North around 10 years ago that the outline of the circuit is still visible from on high. There is no chance of it ever reopening. 

 

DSJ used the word emasculated to describe the chicanes that began to blight circuits in the 70s. It doesn't fully convey the vandalism perpetrated at the Oesterreichring.   

[Imperial]

The first time I walked Flatschach, to get up to general admission in 2014, I was impressed when I noticed that there were still barriers in place and bits of gantries over the 'track', so it basically looks like its use was simply ended and nothing ever done to that section in terms of taking a wrecking ball to it.

[absinthedude]

When circuits are revised, as indeed they sometimes must be, I do not understand why those responsible render previous configurations unusable or even destroyed.

 

Hockenheim. Just a travesty. 

 

When Silversteone underwent major revision for 1991, I remember reading that the intention was not to destroy any of the old track so that it could possibly be used in the future for historic racing. It never has been, but much of it remains.

 

How much of the old Interlagos remains? Most of it I think.

 

Brooklands....I understand it was necessarily chopped for the war effort but the Cambpell circuit remained intact into the 1980s. What on earth possessed those who built offices on it in that decade?

 

There is a Youtube channel called something like "circuits of the past" which has visited many disused or partially closed tracks and uncovered stretches of asphalt or concrete...or the odd armco barrier in the undergrowth. But some look like they could be brought back with some TLC.

Edited by absinthedude, 25 November 2020 - 12:34.

[Tim Murray]

Brooklands would look a lot better without that stupid warehouse thing obliterating the straight...

The Bellman hangar was moved off the Finishing Straight and restored around three years ago:

https://www.brooklan.../bellman-hangar

https://www.brooklan...interactive-map

[absinthedude]

The Bellman hangar was moved off the Finishing Straight and restored around three years ago:

https://www.brooklan.../bellman-hangar

https://www.brooklan...interactive-map

 

Now if only they could get funds the rebuild the Hennebique bridge, roughly a third of the circuit would be drivable in one unbroken stint. 

[2F-001]

I never quite understood the wailing and gnashing of teeth that accompanied the demise of the previous iteration of Hockenheim.

I don't recall it being particularly loved in the 60s and 70s, with the heavy brooding atmosphere of the 'stadium' section and the perilous and spray-filled conditions that could be encountered out in the forest (and its reputation not enhanced by the death of Clark, of course).

 

Perhaps it being missed says more about the newer circuits that have come to prominence in the ensuing years, but it doesn't figure too high on my list of mourned losses.

Edited by 2F-001, 25 November 2020 - 13:21.

[LittleChris]

As Barry notes, Gresil is still there ( a square metre of undergrowth being cleared each time I pass by    )  but Scierie and Paradis are irrecoverable  . 

[Rupertlt1]

The first circuit I ever attended was Crystal Palace - a grievous loss - though bits remain.

Another category is wholly intact venues waiting to be revived - Firle Hill Climb - a joyous revival 2015-2019 - and hopefully to return in 2021. More or less as before, if a little overgrown.

 

RGDS RLT

[ensign14]

To turn the question around slightly...are there any remains of any board tracks anywhere?  Even recycled wood?

[Arjan de Roos]

The Marlboro chicane, Tunnel East, Panorama corner, and Bos Uit (Forrest Exit) are overgrown by grass and stones to become a Golf course and Holiday home resort.  

[Vitesse2]

The Campbell Circuit was impassable by 1945, the Railway Straight having been effectively obliterated, with buildings standing at each end of it. Historical imagery from Google Earth, 1945. You should take the testimony of the likes of WB and JVB on the feasibility of the circuit's revival with a very large pinch of salt ...

 

[absinthedude]

Presumably the argument was that the railway straight could have been cleared....the track surface of the Cambpell circuit might not have been drivable by 1980 but it was still intact. As indeed the railway straight was eventually partially cleared quite recently. Having visited in 1995 and 2007 I was quite heartened at the work done at Brooklands in the years between. The remaining stretches of Byfleet banking were in much better condition. Tesco seem to look after the bit they own now and the Mercedes-Benz World area doesn't destroy any of the extant track or  buildings. The whole renovation has been done quite sympathetically. 

 

Sitges in Spain is pretty intact, wasn't there a story about the current owners opening some sort of motorsport themed attraction there including occasional laps of the circuit?

 

With regard to Hockenhim, it was never elegant but it was unique and had a certain character to it. I very much doubt that ripping it up and allowing the vegetation to take over has much effect on the environmental impact of the circuit. It just seems an act of vandalism. 

 

A good portion of the Aintree motor track still exists, and isn't there still an Aintree Motor Club which gathers annually when there is no plague? 

 

There must be a fair few short lived air base/airport based circuits which are still extant but no longer used for racing. 

 

One can still walk parts of the Montjuic Park track of Barcelona. 

 

Presumably many street based circuits still exist in the form of the original streets. I've often wondered about places like Ain-Diab. 

[absinthedude]

Doesn't Brough Aerodrome, sight of one of Sir Stirling's early wins, still exist as an airfield? 

[ozpata]

I remember a few years ago an audio interview (I don't remember where) the A1/Oster plans , as far as I can recall the A1 ring owned all or almost all of the land where the old circuit was, but there were problems with regulations for noise, distances and so forth, but they seemed very willing to bring back the old circuit, then went into some of the economic details and lack of cooperation from local authorities 

 

for the most part old circuits that still exist can be revived, yes to a point, the roadblock always seems to be the new demands and regulations now a days that basically make them a complicated process, asking for a lot more inversion that is probably viable to make sense 

Edited by ozpata, 25 November 2020 - 15:07.

[Allan Lupton]

Snetterton as we knew it in the 1950s/60s has disappeared under two serious rearrangements, except there does seem to be a bit of the Norwich Straight still visible. What's missing is the petrol station connecting that Straight to the A11 which was sometimes used as access/egress by rally organisers

[Barry Boor]

Yes, the hairpin that joined the Norwich Straight to the Home Straight at Snetterton was another that I thought of earlier, as was the part of Zandvoort that Arjan mentioned above.

[sabrejet]

Riverside? I'm pretty sure it's been 100% obliterated.

[Barry Boor]

Good call.

[Rupertlt1]

Ontario Motor Speedway, California?

 

RGDS RLT

[2F-001]

Nivelles. (Though I'm not sure that too many mourn its passing, do they?)

[Michael Ferner]

 

It's amazing how they simply cut off all the good parts of the old track to make the new one. Very efficient!

[Barry Boor]

Actually, Tony, it's all still there. Check it out!!!

[Michael Ferner]

Nivelles. (Though I'm not sure that too many mourn its passing, do they?)

 

 

When circuits are revised, as indeed they sometimes must be, I do not understand why those responsible render previous configurations unusable or even destroyed.

 

Hockenheim. Just a travesty. 

 

Nivelles certainly wasn't a great track, but it was "kinda lovely" in its simplicity. I miss it much, much more than the old Hockenheimring. It's not a travesty at all that most of the old German track has vanished, it's been put to good use: in its stead trees are growing - much, much better use of the available space.

[Michael Ferner]

To turn the question around slightly...are there any remains of any board tracks anywhere?  Even recycled wood?

 

Much of the wood had been used to build housings, but I doubt that many of them are still standing. Would be interesting to find out, though...

[Bikr7549]

The youtube channel is Circuits of the Past, and it has some good ones.

 

Some tracks do come back. In the US there are 2 that I am aware of, Thompson Speedway in Connecticut and VIR in Virginia. Unsure how VIR survived but Thompson did by the road course being part of the grounds for a very active oval race track. The road course stopped being used in 1975 or 76 due to poor condition but was rejuvenated a few years back. I no longer am in that area so unsure of the circumstances that caused that, but glad that it happened.

 

This won't be happening with Riverside unfortunately as it is now a housing development. 

[pete53]

Nivelles. (Though I'm not sure that too many mourn its passing, do they?)

No. I went to the 1972 Grand Prix there - uninspiring to say the least although perhaps not as much as some modern tracks.

[LittleChris]

VIR is a great track.

 

Reims now that the section from Brettelle Nord to Muizon has been ploughed over as well as the Soissons road from Muizon to Thillois which is now dual carriageway and at a lower level around the Garenne kink than it originally was. Won't be coming back !

 

Le Mans - The White House section by-passed by the Porsche Curves not to mention the Pontlieue section. Potentially both could be brought back but would need rather a lot of widening and not sure people would want their houses demolished to achieve this !

 

Old Clermont Ferrand / Charade circuit is still all there, just some big rocks blocking the road at the Carrefour de Champeaux need moving 

[LodgeCorner]

I'd nominate Knickerbrook at Oulton Park, clearly the corner is still there, now with a much larger run off area, although it has been neutered by the chicane. 

[68targa]

Davidstow   - we visited a few years ago and a lot of the concrete seemed to exist and yes, it was wet and windy !

[elansprint72]

Tatt's Corner at Aintree has a grandstand on it.

[Eric Dunsdon]

Practically every corner at Silverstone. Becketts in particular!. Tarmac run offs. A few oil drums and straw bales might help,

[absinthedude]

I remember ITV showed the NASCAR WInston Cup in the late 80s....and watching what they said would be the last ever race at Riverside. If memory serves a car ploughed off the track, through a rather rickety brick or concrete barrier and into a spectator enclosure - thankfully the spectators scrambled to safety. Riverside was demolished soon after, with nothing at all remaining. 

[john aston]

More parochially , Rufforth , the circuit where I spent many happy days looks largely intact on Google Earth. A couple of buildings now block the track near the start /finish and some resurfacing is needed on a short section but not too much has changed since I saw the likes of Hunt and Von Opel there in F 3 , or Tony Dean destroy some U2s in his Porsche 908 . I may even ask the gliding club if I can take a stroll down memory lane . 

 

Hockenheim - the new circuit is so anodyne that I still have no idea of its route. You watch it , and 20 seconds later you've forgotten it . May as well call if Der Goldfischring  . But I liked the old version- crazy fast straights between spooky pines, big brake into chicane, and repeat. Then a   quick appearance before those even spookier stands (which evoke more sinister images) before  disappearing again . 

 

Silverstone - it is the law that every F1 journalist has to prattle on about the Becketts section. I dare say it catches Lewis's attention in his Merc too , but - dare I say it ? - to watch it's actually a bit underwhelming . Not a patch on Club as it used to be - God , what a place that was to watch an F1 (or F3000) car on the limit  , every bit as good as the old Woodcote -and yes , I was there to see the other act which every journo has to mention - Peterson in the 72 in '73. Heresy , but my best memory is of Hunt and Lauda  slamming round it in practice for the International Trophy in April 1975 , its last hurrah. And Bridge was mesmerising - watching Alonso take it at astonishing speed in the Renault in 2005  woke me up to just how good he was    , 

[elansprint72]

More parochially , Rufforth , the circuit where I spent many happy days looks largely intact on Google Earth. A couple of buildings now block the track near the start /finish and some resurfacing is needed on a short section but not too much has changed since I saw the likes of Hunt and Von Opel there in F 3 , or Tony Dean destroy some U2s in his Porsche 908 . I may even ask the gliding club if I can take a stroll down memory lane . 

 

 

I hope this link works out:

(3) Facebook

[absinthedude]

Bridge corner at Silverstone was wonderful. I hung out there for the "British Empire Trophy" race and F300 race in 1992 - indeed my avatar was a photo I shot there. 

 

I imagine the current Becketts section is quite exciting if you're one of 20+ cars going through it at speed. 

[BRG]

IMO the current iteration of Silverstone is the best so far for actual racing.  As is the current. shortened iteration of Hockenheim.  I also like the Red Bull Ring rather more than the old O-Ring.  Why?  Because all three USED to be largely flat out blasts, whilst the new versions have interesting and challenging sections that allow and even encourage racing.

 

Now what about that place where they held GPs before WW2.  Donington Park, it was called. That ought to be restored for racing.

[absinthedude]

I miss the Osterreichring. But would rather have the Red Bull Ring than nothing.

 

Fuji....doesn't the old banked final corner still exist?

[D-Type]

In Kenya the Nakuru Park race track has had a housing estate built over it and no trace remains.  The Embakasi circuit in Nairobi is now obliterated by an industrial estate.  The roads forming the Langa Langa are still there but it will never be used for racing again.
 

In England, I think I read that Full Sutton, once the fastest track in the country, is now occupied by a prison.  But as the airfield still exists, parts of the track are probably still there.

[chr1s]

What about the old Jacarepagua circuit in Rio? Wasn't that demolished to make way for the 2016 Olympics?

[Barry Boor]

Yes indeed.  Totally gone.

[LittleChris]

What about the old Jacarepagua circuit in Rio? Wasn't that demolished to make way for the 2016 Olympics?

 

I think there was an even earlier circuit on the site that was demolished to make way for Jacarepagua 

 

Edit: Barra da Tijuca 

 

Rio de Janeiro Track info (silhouet.com)

Edited by LittleChris, 25 November 2020 - 22:35.

[Doug Nye]

I have a particular interest in the 'tween-wars Atlantic City board track near Hammonton, New Jersey, USA. It's where Frank Lockhart (a hero of mine) in 1927 lapped in his supercharged Miller at 147.729mph.  As a one-lap speedway average that mark survived, I think, until 1960.  Look long and hard at this Google Earth view today of the woodland near Hammonton, and I mean long and hard, and the shadow of the old track on the site, if I remember correctly, of the WW1 Amatol ammunition plant survives...

 

 

 

DCN

[Collombin]

It didn't quite make it to 1960 - quite apart from Monzanapolis, there was the ill advised Daytona visit in 1959 where they were well into the 170s.

[Nick Wa]

Brands Hatch Bottom Bend the left hander to go UP Paddock Hill.

[LittleChris]

Various sections of Bremgarten have been narrowed and repurposed as footpaths / cycle ways ie section immediately before Bethlehem corner, part of Jordanrampe leading down to Eymatt, top of Glasbrunnen from the fountain to the motorway bisecting the forest. The Kiesgrubbe section by the quarry is still there but forms the edge of a yard.

 

In fact the only bits I think no longer exist in any form are Eicholz to the top of the Jordanrampe and the section immediately before Forsthaus so only a few hundred metres and in both cases motorway junctions have been built over them. 

[Lee Nicolle]

Now if only they could get funds the rebuild the Hennebique bridge, roughly a third of the circuit would be drivable in one unbroken stint. 

Brooklands, even if it was complete it could never be used as they would never get insurance. And ofcourse it is so bumpy and broken up it would need tens of millions to repair.

This is the same for many tracks of the past.

I am actually amazed that the 'Ring can actually get liability insurance, more so the thousands who simply drive the track regularly,, without even a helmet. And then crash quite often