222 replies to this topic

[Branislav]

 

 

Of course there are big differences between the teams in this sport and people want to devalue my performance that way, but I would love to race against everyone in the same car.

 

https://www.gpblog.c...t-if-i-won.html

 

 

I think he speaks from the heart

 

I wish all the drivers sign petition to race F2 cars after Sunday. And that would be WDC

 

This is WCC

Edited by Branislav, 26 November 2020 - 13:42.

[Marklar]

''Today people talk about Max. That's probably never going to happen, but if Max were to join my team and I do the same thing I'm doing now and I beat him, people wouldn't believe that anyway,''

Lewis definitely reads fan discussions on the internet

Edited by Marklar, 26 November 2020 - 13:45.

[Pentecost]

I get that a full season in equal cars will never happen on the highest level, but I wish F1 would do some special events now and then, like a one-off GP in equal cars. And while we're at it, make F1 an olympic sport, so every 4 years we'd get a short round of 4 races, all in equal cars.

[Beri]

Lewis definitely reads fan discussions on the internet

I'll bet you he is amongst us.

[noikeee]

I get that a full season in equal cars will never happen on the highest level, but I wish F1 would do some special events now and then, like a one-off GP in equal cars.

 

Official end of season charity event in karts! I say it every time and the FIA won't read the board and listen to me! 

[Claudius]

I'll bet you he is amongst us.

 

An impostor among us...

[Anja]

I'll bet you he is amongst us.

 

I just imagined Lewis getting into an argument on here with Paul Tracy being on the other side. 

[Beri]

I just imagined Lewis getting into an argument on here with Paul Tracy being on the other side.

And Villeneuve in the mix?

[Risil]

Villeneuve treats the whole world like it's an internet forum.

[Requiem84]

Official end of season charity event in karts! I say it every time and the FIA won't read the board and listen to me! 

 

Bercy!

[Marklar]

Official end of season charity event in karts! I say it every time and the FIA won't read the board and listen to me!

the scenes if a Stroll wins it

[pacificquay]

Put them all in equal cars and over a season Lewis would still be champion 

[Anuity]

The level of boredom even he himself experiences by driving circles in the best car for years around must be tremendous to make a comment like this.

He is one of the greatest of all times, and very likely would still beat anybody else, bar Verstappen and possibly Alonso in equal machinery. But it just highlights even more the sad situation. Obviously not the fault of Lewis of Mercedes.

[Requiem84]

Put them all in equal cars and over a season Lewis would still be champion 

 

Or Kvyat, or Grosjean or.. anyone! 

 

I think we all agree that if they'd all have the same car, Hamilton wouldn't win 6 championships in 7 years .

[HP]

I get that a full season in equal cars will never happen on the highest level, but I wish F1 would do some special events now and then, like a one-off GP in equal cars. And while we're at it, make F1 an olympic sport, so every 4 years we'd get a short round of 4 races, all in equal cars.

That would be great. Just who's gonna build and maintain those 20 cars?

[pacificquay]

Or Kvyat, or Grosjean or.. anyone! 

 

I think we all agree that if they'd all have the same car, Hamilton wouldn't win 6 championships in 7 years .

Very possible that he would.

 

Sure he’d win fewer races than now, but over a season he’d likely win out.

[Requiem84]

Very possible that he would.

 

Sure he’d win fewer races than now, but over a season he’d likely win out.

 

Let's put it this way: in a Mercedes with Bottas as his team mate, the likelihood of him winning the championship is close to... 90% 

 

In a spec series that likelihood drops to a much much lower amount. Because it'd be like racing Rosberg: even if he'd be so much better than anyone else, the rest would be much closer. Some bad luck, some retirements could make the championship swing. 

 

Right now, he's racing 1 car. In a spec series, he'd be racing much more cars. So even if you think he is thát much better than anyone else (which we obviously can argue about in great length), it's not likely for him to win 6 out of 7.

[messy]

Hamilton is in the best possible position to say this kind of stuff looking down from right up at the top, ofcourse. But I do believe he’s a proper racer at heart and wishes he’d had a bit more of a challenge during the hybrid era. I always got the impression he really relished the 2017/18 battles with Vettel. Would he beat Verstappen and Leclerc with the same car? In the past I’d have doubted it highly, but I think I was wrong. Maybe he wouldn’t be clearly quicker than them but I don’t think anyone would have stood a chance against him in races like Turkey the other week.

[Marklar]

Very possible that he would.

Sure he’d win fewer races than now, but over a season he’d likely win out.

he probably would still win most of them but others would also win something. He lost 2016 after all due to reliability, now imagine a Alonso or Verstappen have the same car as him in all those season. Even if not over pure performance they would be bound to win here and there alone on reliability grounds, and both are good enough to also beat him over so many years in some seasons on merit.

Though the OP is not quite right, it could be that Hamilton still wins 6 out of 7, albeit unlikely, but even in this scenario at least it would be much closer.

Edited by Marklar, 26 November 2020 - 14:53.

[Stephane]

He wishes, but as it is not possible, he's happy he has the better one.

[shure]

If Hamilton's racing in identical machinery against Max, Charles, Seb, Danny and Fred there's no way that he'll be winning most of the races, not consistently at least.  There are too many damn fine drivers there to imagine they'll all fail to measure up or that he'd prevail the majority of the time.

 

For starters, he wouldn't be able to drive within himself like he's been able to do in the Merc.  Having to push and be constantly dice with others will undoubtedly bring on more mistakes than we are used to seeing.  And he wouldn't be able to recover from those mistakes quite so easily.  E.g. a couple of races ago he lost a couple of positions at the start but it was just an inconvenience - that wouldn't happen in the above scenario.  Mistakes would be punished and breathing room would be minimal.

 

I'm sure he'd be a frequent winner.  He has the talent to stand with all of them.  But it won't be Lewis vs the rest.  That's just wishful thinking

[MJB5990]

It's all fantasy of course - but it would also depend on what type of car. Some drivers thrive in certain cars (Vettel and blown floor) but then struggle more with other cars. The Kimi with a strong front end car on Michelin tyres would be a match for anyone.

Edited by MJB5990, 26 November 2020 - 15:35.

[DS27]

I'll bet you he is amongst us.

 

 

Okay, i'll admit it, but don't tell everyone.

[PayasYouRace]

An impostor among us...

But who is sus?

[garoidb]

I'll bet you he is amongst us.

 

 

An impostor among us...

 

We know he is a big fan of Ayrton Senna, so that narrows it down ....

[Augurk]

An impostor among us...

I'm pretty sure I saw Lewis close to Jonathan Wheatley near Admin before his positive Covid test.

[Augurk]

But who is sus?

Purple.

[Disgrace]

If F1 turned into a spec series, I'm not sure I would be bothered anymore. Not like the current formula is working.

[Burai]

Let's put it this way: in a Mercedes with Bottas as his team mate, the likelihood of him winning the championship is close to... 90% 

 

In a spec series that likelihood drops to a much much lower amount. Because it'd be like racing Rosberg: even if he'd be so much better than anyone else, the rest would be much closer. Some bad luck, some retirements could make the championship swing. 

 

Right now, he's racing 1 car. In a spec series, he'd be racing much more cars. So even if you think he is thát much better than anyone else (which we obviously can argue about in great length), it's not likely for him to win 6 out of 7.

 

We've seen in spec series like F2 that, even with supposedly equal machinery, you don't necessarily have equal crew and operations. The margins are finer than in F1 but they are still there.

 

We'd go from "Max would be quicker than Lewis if he also had a Mercedes" to "Max would be quicker than Lewis if he also had a Prema-prepared Dallara".

[nca]

If Hamilton's racing in identical machinery against Max, Charles, Seb, Danny and Fred there's no way that he'll be winning most of the races, not consistently at least.  There are too many damn fine drivers there to imagine they'll all fail to measure up or that he'd prevail the majority of the time.

 

For starters, he wouldn't be able to drive within himself like he's been able to do in the Merc.  Having to push and be constantly dice with others will undoubtedly bring on more mistakes than we are used to seeing.  And he wouldn't be able to recover from those mistakes quite so easily.  E.g. a couple of races ago he lost a couple of positions at the start but it was just an inconvenience - that wouldn't happen in the above scenario.  Mistakes would be punished and breathing room would be minimal.

 

I'm sure he'd be a frequent winner.  He has the talent to stand with all of them.  But it won't be Lewis vs the rest.  That's just wishful thinking

 

To me this is a very realistic assessment, but I doubt that he would be a frequent winner. He would get his fair share, say 20%

Of course it is never going to happen, and one might ask the question... is he 'Virtue Signalling'?

 

nca

[juicy sushi]

Well, we know he watches IndyCar, and liked what he say when he watched them at COTA.  He's already got an XE team on the go; and I'm sure Dallaras and a Honda/Chevy lease can be found if he wanted to use some of that garage space to help him prove his point.

[alframsey]

It surprises me how much it bothers him that a section of the fans think it is the car, and not him. I really believe Lewis is the best on the grid pound for pound and I'd back him over a season against anyone, especially in a spec car. Other drivers would win some though and it would be amazing. I don't think I'd mind a spec aero and engine package tbh as long as the cars were still the quickest on the planet. We will never know.

[TomNokoe]

Someone said in a press conference a few weeks ago that him and Max should swap cars. I don't think it's playing on his mind, he's just fed up of the questions.

[BRG]

I'll bet you he is amongst us.

I'm not Lewis.  I've been to Croydon many times.  But never to Stevenage.

 

That would be great. Just who's gonna build and maintain those 20 cars?

Don't know, but it isn't impossible.  W Series did this - admittedly with simpler F4 type cars - last year, even swapping cars around each race.

 

But let's not get too carried away over a throw away comment from the champion.

[MasterOfCoin]

To me this is a very realistic assessment, but I doubt that he would be a frequent winner. He would get his fair share, say 20%

Of course it is never going to happen, and one might ask the question... is he 'Virtue Signalling'?

 

nca

After winning races in 2007 as a rookie, against his formidable WDC teammate.....a 2020 Lewis would be a frequent winner in identical cars.........It would be a task to consistently out qualify him. be better on race pace and tire management.....and to be better in the rain, which over a season is a tuff ask........

[rf90]

I'm not so sure Lewis would have said such thing in each year of hybrid up to now. Having said that, I doubt any other driver would have said it either.

 

If this fantasy came to life, what cars though? Everyone in Mercs.. Lewis has distinct advantage. Everyone in a Lotus or Alfa. that might work.

I think only Alonso (assuming he hasn't been away from F1 too long), Verstappen, Ricciardo and Leclerc would compete equally with Hamilton, but one or two others, such as Norris for example, are well capable (IMO) of springing a surprise win especially as they gain experience.

[PayasYouRace]

I'm not Lewis.  I've been to Croydon many times.  But never to Stevenage.

 

Don't know, but it isn't impossible.  W Series did this - admittedly with simpler F4 type cars - last year, even swapping cars around each race.

 

But let's not get too carried away over a throw away comment from the champion.

 

 

The short lived Formula Two of the late naughties was also a car swap series like W Series today.

 

But of course, the problem is that it's easier to do that for a start-up series than to adapt or add F1 to contain that feature.

[Marklar]

To me this is a very realistic assessment, but I doubt that he would be a frequent winner. He would get his fair share, say 20%
Of course it is never going to happen, and one might ask the question... is he 'Virtue Signalling'?

nca

20 % is frequent

I think it would be higher though. Of the current grid only Max is his equal, so I'd expect the two to bag 70-80 % of the wins, and the rest shares the remaining 20-30 %. The drivers at the top are relatively close together, but they are not equal either, and the very best would still prevail most of the time.

[Requiem84]

How much did Hamilton win in GP2?

Margins are much finer. Getting the setup wrong, tires out of the window and others will be faster

[Branislav]

How much did Hamilton win in GP2?

 

 

I don't know how much but that year there was no Alonso, Max etc.

[Atreiu]

I’d like to see everyone with something fast and unreliable like an MP4-20. Guaranteed excitement all the way, lots of grid penalties, nobody would ever be safe.

[Requiem84]

I don't know how much but that year there was no Alonso, Max etc.

 

He won 5 out of 21 (23%). 

 

This year he's at 10/14 => 71%

Last year he's at 11/21 => 52%

Year before that 11/21 => 52%

Year before that 9/20 => 45%

 

So yeah.. in a spec series in an arguable stronger field than the 2006 GP2 field, he'd win much much much less than he's winning today. 

[Marklar]

spec series isnt really spec series, go one year earlier and he won 75 % in F3. He certainly would win less, but it depends on more factors to determine how much less.

[MasterOfCoin]

How much did Hamilton win in GP2?

Margins are much finer. Getting the setup wrong, tires out of the window and others will be faster

That would be the same for everyone though.....Helps a lot if this Merc team is also running the spec car he's driving....

[Requiem84]

spec series isnt really spec series, go one year earlier and he won 75 % in F3. He certainly would win less, but it depends on more factors to determine how much less.

 

Go back one more year, and Hamilton won 1 race out of 20 (5%), whereas Rosberg won 3 races, Premat won 3 races and Jamie Green won 7 races to become Champion. The famous racing driver Eric Saligon even won more races than Hamilton that year, namely 3.

 

I'm not bashing Hamilton here, as he was a rookie and did good in that year. But in spec series adaption to the equipment, experience, a good team etc all make an impact. Losing 1 tenth because of a set-up going in the wrong direction can ruin your whole wknd in such a series. In a spec series we'd see much more different winners. Not only Hamilton and Verstappen, but many others would win races too. 

[Branislav]

He won 5 out of 21 (23%). 

 

 

 

And second best was Nelson Piquet Jr

[mclarensmps]

If they all had equal cars for one race, even if it's a one off, the driver/team whose car they'd use would still have an advantage.

[Ivanhoe]

I find it a bit sad to see that Lewis is so defensive and even playing a bit of the victim (“no one would believe it if I’d beat Max”). He fully deserved all his titles, no need for him to be so excusive. 

Edited by Ivanhoe, 26 November 2020 - 17:34.

[H0R]

Everyone in the same car? Come to Indycar, Lewis, we have cookies!

[Requiem84]

I find it a bit sad to see that Lewis is so defensive and even playing a bit of the victim (“no one would believe it if I’d beat Max”). He fully deserved all his titles, no need for him to be so excusive. 

I don't think it's that strange. Lewis probably often gets question on those topic. The jokes about changing cars by Max also relates to the inherent car advantage Hamilton has. 

 

That's why I said quite a few times that it would be much better for Hamilton if the other teams would be stronger and he'd still be beating them - because right now it's just hard to evaluate how strong he is driving (although Turkey was a clear exception - there it was pretty obvious how good he was).