95 replies to this topic

[PayasYouRace]

Alex Zanardi winning the PPG Cup in 1996 after passing Bryan Herta at the Corkscrew? I've heard that one before.

 

When of course it was Jimmy Vasser who clinched the title at Laguna Seca that year (spoilers) with a more conservative fourth.

 

Probably compounded by Vasser winning the 1997 Laguna Seca race where Zanardi took his first championship, finishing third.

[dolomite]

I think I have one...

 

The first primarily Carbon Composite F1 Car to take part in a Formula 1 event was the McLaren MP4.

 

Regards Mike

What car do you think it was then?

[blackmme]

What car do you think it was then?

 

The Lotus 88 took part in Friday practice and part of the Saturday morning session (until black flagged) at Long Beach Round 1 of the 81 Championship alongside the MP4. 

So at the very least it was joint first (I understand there is anecdotal evidence that the Lotus headed out of the pit-lane first but that is splitting hairs! )

 

Of course the MP4 did race first....

 

Regards Mike

[BRG]

As the Lotus 88 had two chassises, it was twice as much carbon composite, so Lotus must be the winner! 

[blackmme]

As the Lotus 88 had two chassises, it was twice as much carbon composite, so Lotus must be the winner! 

 

"chassises" I think I see what you did there.... ACBC would be pleased. 

 

Regards Mike

[dolomite]

The Lotus 88 took part in Friday practice and part of the Saturday morning session (until black flagged) at Long Beach Round 1 of the 81 Championship alongside the MP4. 

So at the very least it was joint first (I understand there is anecdotal evidence that the Lotus headed out of the pit-lane first but that is splitting hairs! )

 

Of course the MP4 did race first....

 

Regards Mike

Ah, ok. Provided you employ a somewhat elastic definition of ‘take part in a formula one event’ that encompasses doing a few laps in practice and then being disqualified. Good spot. 

[blackmme]

I think I have another ‘Mandela Effect’ prompted by the Great DCN of this parish!

 

In his (as usual) terrific column in this months Motorsport Doug refers quite correctly to the Honda V12 as the last V12 engine to win the F1 World Championship.

It got me thinking and despite the V12 almost universally beloved among fans the MP4/6 is the only V12 engined car to win an F1 title!

I might be mistaken or it might be a very personal ‘Mandela effect’ and everyone else if fully aware of it but I certainly assumed there were others!

Regards Mike

[jcbc3]

I would think the seventies Ferrari was a 180 degree V12. I.e. NOT a boxer.

[blackmme]

I would think the seventies Ferrari was a 180 degree V12. I.e. NOT a boxer.

I know there’s plenty of discussion about whether the Flat 12 can be described as a boxer (it isn’t) but I don’t think there’s much room for debate that it was a Flat configuration rather than a V!

 

Regards Mike

[ensign14]

Prompted by another thread...

 

First time I saw reference to Loton Park, I thought it was a typo for Oulton Park.

[Myhinpaa]

I know there’s plenty of discussion about whether the Flat 12 can be described as a boxer (it isn’t) but I don’t think there’s much room for debate that it was a Flat configuration rather than a V!

 

Regards Mike

 

Even Ferrari themselves referred to it as a "boxer", hence as in 312B and when adapted to their sportscar 312PB.

The latter were at first named "BP" ("Boxer Prototipo") but changed to "PB" to not come in conflict with their sponsor, Shell.

 

But construction wise it is a flat V12.

[BRG]

First time I saw reference to Loton Park, I thought it was a typo for Oulton Park.

Oh, you mean it isn't the name used when they run Oulton Park in the reverse direction?

[ensign14]

That was Krap Notluo.

[BiggestBuddyLazierFan]

Probably compounded by Vasser winning the 1997 Laguna Seca race where Zanardi took his first championship, finishing third.

I always thought Herta won in 1997

There you go, another Mandella

[Collombin]

How many people think Carlos Reutemann finished 7th in the 1981 Las Vegas title decider? I always thought so, but apparently not.

[Michael Ferner]

Not if you've watched the race, and the exciting finish of Wattie and Lafferty fighting over sixth, and nearly catching Piquet! However, I've forgotten who prevailed!

 

 

But, another example would be Alan Jones only losing the 1979 WDC because of dropped scores. I saw and heard examples of that in 1980 already!

Edited by Michael Ferner, 21 July 2021 - 13:13.

[Doug Nye]

Hmmm - that Bentley have just replicated the stupendously successful 'Birkin Blower' model...

 

DCN

[chr1s]

Ferrari still enter Le Mans.

 

The Italian Grand Prix is the only race held at the same venue since 1950.

 

That Niki Lauda's accident resulted in the German Grand Prix being moved to Hockenheim.

 

Gilles Villeneuve only ever raced with number 27.

[john aston]

Not if you've watched the race, and the exciting finish of Wattie and Lafferty fighting over sixth, and nearly catching Piquet! However, I've forgotten who prevailed!

 

 

But, another example would be Alan Jones only losing the 1979 WDC because of dropped scores. I saw and heard examples of that in 1980 already!

I always smile when it is claimed that X only lost the championship because of stuff like this , or unreliability , or team orders etc . You can't lose something you never had , and there's one tried and tested way to become world champion- end the season with more points than anyone else .  

[ensign14]

Except in 1964 and 1988. 

[john aston]

The bottom line - after application of the rules, was still that the guy with most points won. Even though the rules were a bit daft ...

[Collombin]

Even though the rules were a bit daft ...

I always liked the dropped scores rule, I think it had a genuine purpose in the days before bulletproof reliability.

[PayasYouRace]

I always liked the dropped scores rule, I think it had a genuine purpose in the days before bulletproof reliability.

I think it would still have a good purpose in today’s ultra-reliable age. For one, a single reliability problem can be unduly damaging. For another, it stops people settling for points positions late in the season.

[PayasYouRace]

I always thought Herta won in 1997

There you go, another Mandella

He won in 98 and 99, and had the same livery and number in all 3 years. Easily misremembered.

[moffspeed]

I always thought that the story of a blood-stained furled Austrian flag being found in Senna's wrecked Imola cockpit was Mandeloid.

 

However a bit of research suggests it was a truism.

[D-Type]

Going back tosking what the Mandela Effect means, I reckon:

Genuine "Mandela Effect":  Formula 1 began in 1950
​Pedantry:  The Formula 1 World Championship began in 1950

[cpbell]

Going back tosking what the Mandela Effect means, I reckon:

Genuine "Mandela Effect":  Formula 1 began in 1950
​Pedantry:  The Formula 1 World Championship began in 1950

Wasn't it the World Driver's Championship that started in 1950?

[PayasYouRace]

Going back tosking what the Mandela Effect means, I reckon:

Genuine "Mandela Effect":  Formula 1 began in 1950
​Pedantry:  The Formula 1 World Championship began in 1950

 

"Genuine" Mandela Effect would be something like: "I remember the F1 world championship starting in 1937, but I can't find any reference to confirm that."

 

The Mandela Effect has to be something that is clearly wrong, but with the slightest nugget of fact to cause the false memory. So for example in my example above, there was Grand Prix racing and even a championship in 1937, and that would be enough to create the false memory.

 

"Formula 1 began in 1950" is simply an oversimplification resulting in an incorrect statement. It wouldn't be attributed to a false memory, simply an extrapolation of the current championship and its identity that misses some details.

 

"The Formula 1 World Championship began in 1950" is better, but still incorrect, for the same reasons.

 

 

Wasn't it the World Driver's Championship that started in 1950?

 

That would be the correct one.

[Nemo1965]

Having long-since committed at least some of the above examples to print...

Consider - that the front-engined 2 1/2-litre 4-cyl BRM F1 car is "a P25".

That the late Nigel Moores ('Willie Eckerslyke') was heir to the Woolworths fortune.

That the Hockenheim German GP punch-up was between Nelson Piquet and Emilio Salazar.

And as all here already appreciate, that this year marked the 70th anniversary of Formula 1.

DCN

Eh? https://youtu.be/dCPAKVm7-po

[SpaceHorseParty]

Kimi Räikkönen didn't say "Leave me alone, I know what I'm doing" at the 2012 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix. He said "Just leave me alone, I know what to do".

[AJCee]

Eh? https://youtu.be/dCPAKVm7-po

I think Doug was pointing out the mis-remembering of his Christian name Eliseo.

As an aside, I believe that he lived in Harpenden at one time in the European-based leg of his career. As a motorsport-mad boy who went to school there throughout the early 80s I was always on the lookout for him. Never did see him. Does anyone know whereabouts in the town he lived?

[garoidb]

Nigel Mansell, while leading a very wet Monaco Grand Prix in a black and gold Lotus, losing control after putting a wheel on a white line and colliding with the barriers. 

[AJCee]

Nigel Mansell, while leading a very wet Monaco Grand Prix in a black and gold Lotus, losing control after putting a wheel on a white line and colliding with the barriers.

Okay, I’ll bite, what’s wrong with that? 1984 Monaco GP Mansell JPS Lotus 95T. Autocourse has: “… Mansell leading the first Grand Prix of his career. Nigel’s moment of glory lasted for only six laps… …he went out of control on the slippery white painted road markings on the climb from Ste. Devote towards Casino Square and went clanging into the guard rails”

Edited by AJCee, 29 July 2021 - 14:08.

[D-Type]

Nigel Mansell, while leading a very wet Monaco Grand Prix in a black and gold Lotus, losing control after putting a wheel on a white line and colliding with the barriers. 

Isn't that what happened in 1984?

[garoidb]

Okay, I’ll bite, what’s wrong with that? 1984 Monaco GP Mansell JPS Lotus 95T. Autocourse has: “… Mansell leading the first Grand Prix of his career. Nigel’s moment of glory lasted for only six laps… …he went out of control on the slippery white painted road markings on the climb from Ste. Devote towards Casino Square and went clanging into the guard rails”

 

 

Isn't that what happened in 1984?

 

To my eyes, he wasn't on a white line when he lost control. However, it was widely reported that way.

 

[AJCee]

He wasn’t on the line when it snapped sideways, but we cannot see in the footage if there was another road marking there or not.

[Collombin]

In his post race interview (which I've watched several times but not for many years, so may itself be subject to Mandela) he said something like "and I did make a small error - but that error was about six inches on a piece of white on the road, with no grip, and the conditions were so severe that even a good driver cannot get it back. You're just in trouble."

[garoidb]

In his post race interview (which I've watched several times but not for many years, so may itself be subject to Mandela) he said something like "and I did make a small error - but that error was about six inches on a piece of white on the road, with no grip, and the conditions were so severe that even a good driver cannot get it back. You're just in trouble."

 

I do remember this being the accepted explanation for decades, possibly from the driver himself if you are correct. When this came on to Youtube, I expected to see his car edge onto one of the white lines before snapping but I can't see that. It isn't important, of course, as he obviously passed over a patch with too little grip and it was a very minor error if one at all. I won't argue too strongly if people don't agree with me having viewed the clip.

[SophieB]

This one isn’t quite a false memory but for some reason, my brain persistently confuses Carlos Reutemann with Clay Regazzoni and thinks they were the same person. Kind of like how people get Bill Pullman and Bill Paxton confused or Al Pacino confused with Robert de Niro (which seems crazy but I obviously can’t sit in judgement there.)

[Risil]

Here's an entirely personal one but something that's been low-level bugging me for a while. We moved house from the UK to Belgium in summer 1999 and I have a clear memory of watching the (very memorable) French Grand Prix at the new house in Belgium but the (also very memorable) British Grand Prix at the old one in the UK. However this can't be right because the French Grand Prix came first. But try telling my memory that! I was 9 at the time so moving was quite traumatic, I wonder whether that's contributed to screwing up order and place.

[Rediscoveryx]

Henri Toivonen setting a lap time around Estoril in Lancia Delta S4 which would've been good enough for sixth place for '86 Portuguese Grand Prix starting grid.

I’ve heard a bunch of variants of this one. 14th, 6th etc. Does anyone know for sure whst the score is on this one?

[PayasYouRace]

I’ve heard a bunch of variants of this one. 14th, 6th etc. Does anyone know for sure whst the score is on this one?

 

I think the best guess is that they were using the perimeter circuit.

 

It's much more believable that the laptime for a rally car around that circuit would be in the ballpark of an F1 car round the full circult.

[Rediscoveryx]

I think the best guess is that they were using the perimeter circuit.


It's much more believable that the laptime for a rally car around that circuit would be in the ballpark of an F1 car round the full circult.

That’s a good guess. Or that F1 qualifying was wet, but this was back in the day when both Friday and Saturday would have needed to be wet for it to hold true.

One possible alternative explanation could actually be that the comparison was made to fastest race laps of the previous race at Estoril (which must have been the monsoon-ridden 1985 race).

Wild speculations here…

Edited by Rediscoveryx, 29 July 2021 - 19:59.

[PayasYouRace]

I think there was a proper discussion of it here in TNF. One thing I constant in the myth, and that is that he’d have been well placed in the 1986 grid. I don’t think wet weather was ever speculated at.

[Michael Ferner]

Type in "Toivonen Estoril", and even the lousy forum search will spit out a dozen threads... somehow I doubt, however, that this nonsense will ever disappear.

[Risil]

Perimeter circuits always look like more fun than the full ones. Perhaps not with the 1980s crash barrier placements though.