1127 replies to this topic

[alainsfoot]

Honestly I am still astounded he walked away relatively unscathed and under his own steam, speaks to the safety standards. It might be too soon but honestly Romain has only himself to blame. I am just glad he walked away living and breathing.

agreed. from the overhead he appeared to swerve wildly across kyvat. it looked like a terribly dangerous move.  

still, im amazed and relieved that he got out of the whole thing relatively unscathed, it looked horrific.

edit-from reading previous posts, it seems that his cars behaviour might have been caused by factors beyond his control.

Edited by alainsfoot, 30 November 2020 - 06:25.

[Huffer]

agreed. from the overhead he appeared to swerve wildly across kyvat. it looked like a terribly dangerous move.  

still, im amazed and relieved that he got out of the whole thing relatively unscathed, it looked horrific.

 

The move reminded me of his Spa 2012 crash where he just went sweeping across the track and caused that awful pile up. That crash could have been far worse had Grosjean's Lotus passed over Alonso a few inches more in the direction of the cockpit in the pre-Halo days. 

 

I don't want to lay into Grosjean since he was hurt and the crash was so horrible, but yes, he caused the crash all by himself. 

[GrumpyYoungMan]

I am very glad idiots like me who said the halo was too ugly aren't in charge of decision making. If it were up to me at the time I would be having a very difficult conversation with Grosjeans family right now which is an unbearable thought.

On the barrier itself, there is a trade off in terms of how the car interacts with the barrier (clearly getting stuck in the barrier, ripping in half and exploding is unacceptable). A concrete barrier would have likely resulted in a much less severe outcome today, I would guess the likely scenario would have been a more glancing impact off the wall and Grosjean would have bounced back towards an empty track relatively less eventfully, despite still having a fairly big shunt. There is a problem with this, whilst would have been okay for an opening lap incident like today, later in the race a similar impact could leader to a Hubert type incident which is also an unacceptable solution. I imagine they will likely go for a techpro barrier where I would hope the car would bury itself in the barrier like Aitkin-Ghiotto in Sochi which would still be a big hit but hopefully no ripping in half and no explosion.

I agree with Windsor's comments on not enough thought going into safety on the straights, despite lower frequency of accidents, this is where the worst kind of accidents happen and the likeliest place for fatalities to occur. I think most venues should be able to accomodate better safety barriers on the straights as well, its not as though you need to cover the entire track perimeter in techpro, just on straights where speeds get high enough for this kind of thing to happen.

The problem with that is always the deceleration and the sudden change in direction?

[Rediscoveryx]

I am very glad idiots like me who said the halo was too ugly aren't in charge of decision making. If it were up to me at the time I would be having a very difficult conversation with Grosjeans family right now which is an unbearable thought.

 

On the barrier itself, there is a trade off in terms of how the car interacts with the barrier (clearly getting stuck in the barrier, ripping in half and exploding is unacceptable). A concrete barrier would have likely resulted in a much less severe outcome today, I would guess the likely scenario would have been a more glancing impact off the wall and Grosjean would have bounced back towards an empty track relatively less eventfully, despite still having a fairly big shunt. There is a problem with this, whilst would have been okay for an opening lap incident like today, later in the race a similar impact could leader to a Hubert type incident which is also an unacceptable solution. I imagine they will likely go for a techpro barrier where I would hope the car would bury itself in the barrier like Aitkin-Ghiotto in Sochi which would still be a big hit but hopefully no ripping in half and no explosion.

 

I agree with Windsor's comments on not enough thought going into safety on the straights, despite lower frequency of accidents, this is where the worst kind of accidents happen and the likeliest place for fatalities to occur. I think most venues should be able to accomodate better safety barriers on the straights as well, its not as though you need to cover the entire track perimeter in techpro, just on straights where speeds get high enough for this kind of thing to happen.

 

In the concrete barrier case (bouncing back into the track), the track would only have been empty because he was running in the back of the field. If he had been in third place at the time of the accident it would have been a different matter.

[Alburaq]

Yeah it seems a big part* of the surviving cell, which is supposed to be unbreakable and to protect the fuel bag inside, has been ripped off during the impact and stayed on the engine (green arrow) leaving the fuel bag (beige) very exposed... A dangerous precedent

*a part of the rear bulkhead and the left side of the monocoque

Edited by Alburaq, 30 November 2020 - 07:09.

[Huffer]

Yeah it seems a big part* of the surviving cell, which is supposed to be unbreakable and to protect the fuel bag inside, has been ripped off during the impact and stayed on the engine (green arrow) leaving the fuel bag (beige) very exposed... A dangerous precedent

*a part of the rear bulkhead and the left side of the monocoque

 

 

Jings....that's horrible. Many of us were pretty thankful that it appeared to be only the fuel collector that ruptured, but now we can see that it was a pretty close thing for the fuel tank itself not to end up being torn. 

 

That the rear of the survival cell failed is not a surprise to me. As far as I know, the side impact tests for the cell are performed with the cell alone in a stationary position being rammed and no other part of the car attached. I think the FIA will want to upgrade their tests if that's the case - have cell moving sideways for the contact test with some sort of spacer/stub weight to represent the PU to examine what happens in those circumstances.

[Peat]

Interesting to not that the side-impact bars have been sheered off.

 

It's long been a bugbear of mine that some of the safety systems on FIA single seaters are designed to pass the test criteria alone.

[ensign14]

What I find shocking is that there were some posters here, not many though, but a couple, who put the blame on driving error. 

In the first place it is tasteless to remark this after a driver just dodged death but most of all: it is completely irrelevant.

It's not completely irrelevant. The most important aspect of safety is driver discipline. If that goes, then the only safe thing to do is ban the sport.

 

In this case, one factor is that we have a driver with an appalling record of maltreating other drivers on the track, darting right across with no concern as to who might be there already.

 

It may have been a mechanical issue, he may have looked in the mirrors and not seen anything (which would make the size and angle of the mirrors a safety issue).  But discussing whether the root cause was a driver error is just as valid as discussing whether it was bad track design, debris, logical consequence of traffic, whatever.

 

And the debate is not just about the driving; it is about the standard of discipline.  Look at the 2018 USGP, when Grosjean smashed Leclerc out of the race.  He was on 9 penalty points.  The stewards should have given him 3 points and therefore a ban; they gave him 1.  So there is an element of enabling because the FIA doesn't have the testicular fortitude to hold drivers responsible.

 

You may disagree, of course, but driver error is a valid discussion point.

[BiggestBuddyLazierFan]

How is Grosjean doing?
Do we have specific topic about his current state

"news" floating around are that he has broken ribb, burned hands and inhaled some smoke.

[Rediscoveryx]

It's not completely irrelevant. The most important aspect of safety is driver discipline. If that goes, then the only safe thing to do is ban the sport.

 

In this case, one factor is that we have a driver with an appalling record of maltreating other drivers on the track, darting right across with no concern as to who might be there already.

 

It may have been a mechanical issue, he may have looked in the mirrors and not seen anything (which would make the size and angle of the mirrors a safety issue).  But discussing whether the root cause was a driver error is just as valid as discussing whether it was bad track design, debris, logical consequence of traffic, whatever.

 

And the debate is not just about the driving; it is about the standard of discipline.  Look at the 2018 USGP, when Grosjean smashed Leclerc out of the race.  He was on 9 penalty points.  The stewards should have given him 3 points and therefore a ban; they gave him 1.  So there is an element of enabling because the FIA doesn't have the testicular fortitude to hold drivers responsible.

 

You may disagree, of course, but driver error is a valid discussion point.

 

Isn't it two separate discussions? You can acknowledge that driver A was at fault in an incident while simultaneously argue that circuit designers need to assume that driver errors will be occur (because they will). 

[DeKnyff]

Not sure how many times it needs to be repeated. When fighting a fire, always look out for yourself above all else. There might be a casualty in the fire, but the worst thing that you can do is try to be a hero and turn it into two casualties.

Thank God Arturo Merzario, Brett Lunger, Guy Edwards and Harald Ertl played hero and extracted Lauda from his burning Ferrari. Same for Mike Hailwood with Regazzoni.

[Hellenic tifosi]

Also, appointing the blame (even partially) to the driver doesn't mean that we shouldn't be relieved that he walked away relatively unscathed.

 

Imho everything needs to be considered:

 

--> Driver behaviour. Not only Grosjean's swerve to the right, but also what preceded it, with drivers flooring it outside the track and rejoining.

 

--> Car design: The tub and Halo worked as intended, but the fire should be investigated. Apart from that, F1 needs to look into the issue of debris seriously - cars simply SHOULDN'T have so wide front wings and hundreds of protruding bits and pieces.

 

--> Track design: Not just the barrier, but the fact that it's very easy for drivers to leave the track with no punishment.

[ensign14]

Thank God Arturo Merzario, Brett Lunger, Guy Edwards and Harald Ertl played hero and extracted Lauda from his burning Ferrari.

 

And marshal Walter Raab.
 

[Loosenut]

How is Grosjean doing?
Do we have specific topic about his current state

"news" floating around are that he has broken ribb, burned hands and inhaled some smoke.

He's looking like a bit of a wally, but to me, that looks like a wally who will be absolutely fine in no time 

 

Edited by Loosenut, 30 November 2020 - 08:36.

[absinthedude]

How is Grosjean doing?
Do we have specific topic about his current state

"news" floating around are that he has broken ribb, burned hands and inhaled some smoke.

 

Haas posted a video from Grosjean last night. News is no broken ribs and 2nd degree hand/ankle burns. His hands and ankles are bandaged and will be examined today.

 

Looks very much like Berger after Imola in 1989. If that's the case, Grosjean will be absolutely fine by Christmas but may well have to miss the last two races. 

[wingwalker]

He was so lucky that a) he was concours and uninjured and b) there was enough space around him in the tangled mess for him to get out of the inferno:

 

 

 

 

The de-acceleration was incredible, the survival cell went to a full stop almost immediately, judging by tire marks and the pictures of the after math it was about or less than a car's length from hit to full stop of the survival cell, blink of an eye literally. 

Edited by wingwalker, 30 November 2020 - 08:53.

[LoginError]

It was mentioned to me by a friend whom you’ll find pretty high up in the hierarchy of international rescue experts in racing. There should be a rescue car following the field before the medical car. Never have this been more apparent than in the situation yesterday. Hypothetically, if a big pileup happens on the first lap, a fire and drivers are trapped, and even worse, a marshall post is hit, a medic is of little use. Today’s system seems to assume that drivers need treatment and can be treated if an accident happens.

[PayasYouRace]

Interesting to not that the side-impact bars have been sheered off.

It's long been a bugbear of mine that some of the safety systems on FIA single seaters are designed to pass the test criteria alone.

Side impact bars are designed to absorb energy in side impacts. They wouldn’t necessarily be able to take the shearing force of what was essentially a front impact.

[PlatenGlass]

On French tv the commentator was shouting 'he's stuck under the guardrail, he is stuck' when he saw Romain trying to get out, luckily Romain did find a way a moment later.

That's quite interesting - was this because their commentary box was in a position to see? On e.g. Sky, there were no pictures of what was going on until he was out of the car.

Because the crash happened at the back of the shot when it was live, I didn't see it properly and thought that it was probably a relatively minor accident that just happened to break the car awkwardly - like Webber's fire a few years ago. So it was only after he was out of the car that I found out he would have been at genuine risk. (Although I was obviously a bit concerned until he was confirmed out of the car - especially as there was some delay.)

[Bloggsworth]

perhaps Indycar will look again at their plastic cockpit surround - If it survived the impact with the barrier it would surely have melted and caught fire, they are thermoplastic after all.

[Rinehart]

I think its the worst crash i ever witnessed... kubica was bad but this...

Yes, in terms of perpendicular angles, Kubica hit concrete and bounced across the track, Grosjean hit armco and pierced it. In many other comparable situations the driver hit tecpro and everything was fine. No Halo or fire extinguishers necessary. 

I think given how relatively cheap tecpro is, it needs to be mandated to be everywhere around a circuit where the barriers are not parallel to the track, such as the bit Grosjean hit that was angles towards the action. Problem solved.

[Rinehart]

The track and the FIA are responsible for that barrier situation. How can they not be blamed? 

Blamed for what? I could list out 100 dangerous things about any circuit that COULD be the cause of or contributor to a tragic incident but Sim racing would be more dangerous if we covered every one of them off. 

 

How about "they have to learn", which they no doubt will.

[Ben1445]

perhaps Indycar will look again at their plastic cockpit surround - If it survived the impact with the barrier it would surely have melted and caught fire, they are thermoplastic after all.

What makes you so sure? 

 

Unless the engineers who designed it are firmly in the realm of incompetence (which I find somewhat hard to believe) I would have thought that the spec for the windscreen component would have taken into account fire safety for this very reason. That would have included finding out what temperatures it would need to be able to withstand and for how long, choosing a material that could meet that requirement (not just a plain old piece of DIY- store perspex) and then testing it in a controlled environment before ever putting it on the car. 

 

Ok, people are human and we all make mistakes, but I refuse to believe that they threw that screen on without even thinking. 

[Rinehart]

I would love to see an investigation as to why multiple people didn't go "wait a minute, that's not safe, we can easily hit that" 

 

Hell the entire length of that straight looks like guardrail? 

Armco is completely fine when its parallel to a straight piece of track, cars almost never depart a straight section at 90 degrees to the direction of travel, rather they go off at a much shallower angle and therefore glance off armco. 

 

In this Grosjean incident he headed off at lets estimate about 30 degrees, which would have been fine BUT fo the fact that the problem was the piece of armco he hit was also at about 30 degrees and so effectively he hit it square on. 

[balmybaldwin]

How is Grosjean doing?
Do we have specific topic about his current state

"news" floating around are that he has broken ribb, burned hands and inhaled some smoke.

He's on twitter having a bit of a laugh about his hands, otherwise seems fine

[kumo7]

Yeah, I think the Grosjean crash highlights how unsatifactory was Masi's response to the Ghiotto/Aitken crash in the F2 race at Sochi earlier this year.

 

It took an age for marshalls to arrive at the scene of the F2 accident (a minute and a half or so IIRC).  Had Ghiotto been unable to extricate himself unaided the results could have been disastrous.

 

 

 

https://au.motorspor...aitken/4883651/

 

The Bahraini marshalls did a sterling job in response to the Grosjean crash.  However, its important that the FIA take action to address inconsistent marshalling standards and responses at different tracks, it seems to me that this remains a major issue of concern.

 

 

Human side of operation is perhaps the next urgent step.

Like some said, motorsports is dangerous and as the speed increases in all levels of sporting category, I believe there is so much you can be dependent on the "voluntary" marshals. 

Obviously they are the one who saves the lives of drivers, so in one way or the other there should be a good professional scheme.

Edited by kumo7, 30 November 2020 - 10:04.

[kumo7]

Yeah it seems a big part* of the surviving cell, which is supposed to be unbreakable and to protect the fuel bag inside, has been ripped off during the impact and stayed on the engine (green arrow) leaving the fuel bag (beige) very exposed... A dangerous precedent

*a part of the rear bulkhead and the left side of the monocoque

 

This links like a rear half of the chassis is peeled off... Have this got to do with a customer team recycling the tub year after year for saving costs?

I think it is technically possible to remove a part of composite structure and to laminate the new parts on top of it and cure it to stiffen the whole structure... as the textile is not continuous, the newly layered part may peel off in HUGE impact like this, at 135 mph... Grosjean is really lucky...

[ExFlagMan]

Looks like the fuel cell did its job and did not deposit the whole of its contents into the surrounding area, as many on here seem to have assumed.

 

This fits my conviction that only the initial fireball was the result of burning fuel, probably from the FIA fuel flow monitoring system mounted at the read of the tub, the ruptured the fuel lines and possibly the header tank for the injection system.

 

As in many race circuit crashes that involve fire, it is usually other components that get ignited by the initial fireball and then burn more slowly.

 

Given that the shots of the tub show that all the parts in the side pods were machined off by the impact, there would have been quit a large amount of combustible fluids spread around from those parts.

 

There are a quite a lot assorted hydro-carbon based fluids beside the actual fuel on a race car - oil, hydraulic fluid, brake fluid and possibly also the engine/battery coolant.  While these may not be as immediately flammable as the fuel, once they get heated up by the burning fuel they will continue to burn for a long period after the initial fuel has burnt off. 

 

 

[Viryfan]

FIA should be bring a quick response safety team ASAP now like in Indycar:

 

https://www.indycar....tro-Safety-Team

 

Seems like the combo medical car / volunteer / fireman is not enough in case of big fire.

[kumo7]

I think F1 would need two of these on the tack at any points.

[kumo7]

Looks like the fuel cell did its job and did not deposit the whole of its contents into the surrounding area, as many on here seem to have assumed.

 

This fits my conviction that only the initial fireball was the result of burning fuel, probably from the FIA fuel flow monitoring system mounted at the read of the tub, the ruptured the fuel lines and possibly the header tank for the injection system.

 

As in many race circuit crashes that involve fire, it is usually other components that get ignited by the initial fireball and then burn more slowly.

 

Given that the shots of the tub show that all the parts in the side pods were machined off by the impact, there would have been quit a large amount of combustible fluids spread around from those parts.

 

There are a quite a lot assorted hydro-carbon based fluids beside the actual fuel on a race car - oil, hydraulic fluid, brake fluid and possibly also the engine/battery coolant.  While these may not be as immediately flammable as the fuel, once they get heated up by the burning fuel they will continue to burn for a long period after the initial fuel has burnt off. 

 

Horrifying indeed knowning that it was the first lap... 

[pRy]

It seems like the halo helped but at the same time even the t-cam seems intact so I'm not sure how much impact the cockpit area took? I doesn't make sense they're not that durable.

 

The halo appears to have taken some damage to the front section with markings suggesting metal on metal resistance. It does look like the halo was the only part of the car high enough to push the top section to where it is but it's such a difficult crash to call. I'm sure the FIA will release their own findings which may clear some of it up.

[SophieB]

You can see Romain extricate himself from the car in this video (1:20). By the looks of it, he had turned himself around in the cockpit as he squeezed out. Almost like he's kneeling on the seat before standing up in it.

 

Warning: This video does contain multiple views of the crash and fire.

 

 

Thank you for this, and to all who replied, this did help. I am still kind of stunned he was able to manage it.

 

This photo from the (excellent) video from therace.com shows how small the gap must have been. It obviously was possible but my goodness, it must have been a question of cms to spare:

 

 

Unless the perspective is skewed?

[ExFlagMan]

More likely that the gap in the armco opened much wider during the initial impact and then sprang back,

[Beri]

It seems like the halo helped but at the same time even the t-cam seems intact so I'm not sure how much impact the cockpit area took? I doesn't make sense they're not that durable.

Also, imo the guardrail is part of the fire. With concrete or tires or whatever else the car doesn't get sliced in half.

I think you will be surprised to find out that the T cam was in fact a part of the guard rail. As shown above.

[Boing 2]

I don't know if it's been mentioned in the thread or not but would foam extinguishers not be more effective against an outdoor fuel fire then gas ones? at least they would form a physical layer over standing fuel to suppress it and prevent re-ignition?

[thiscocks]

They've got to the stop the cars shedding debris at the slightest touch. Get red of the floor extending out from under the cars, start fining teams that litter the track with shards of carbon fiber.

haha, what? So you mean dont have any carbon fiber on the cars anymore and replace it with solid steel? Fine the teams when its because of drivers hitting each other. Yeah that makes sense.

[thiscocks]

The halo appears to have taken some damage to the front section with markings suggesting metal on metal resistance. It does look like the halo was the only part of the car high enough to push the top section to where it is but it's such a difficult crash to call. I'm sure the FIA will release their own findings which may clear some of it up.

Looks to me like the roll hoop was the part that mainly penetrated the top part of the barrier.

[Risil]

What makes you so sure? 

 

Unless the engineers who designed it are firmly in the realm of incompetence (which I find somewhat hard to believe) I would have thought that the spec for the windscreen component would have taken into account fire safety for this very reason. That would have included finding out what temperatures it would need to be able to withstand and for how long, choosing a material that could meet that requirement (not just a plain old piece of DIY- store perspex) and then testing it in a controlled environment before ever putting it on the car. 

 

Ok, people are human and we all make mistakes, but I refuse to believe that they threw that screen on without even thinking. 

 

The Indycar folks know about safety. The SAFER barrier was an IRL invention and the first series to mandate the HANS device was CART in 2001.

 

Making the tracks themselves as safe as possible is task that will never be complete, and therefore when something goes wrong they'll always be something to blame.

[ExFlagMan]

I think you will be surprised to find out that the T cam was in fact a part of the guard rail. As shown above.

 

That was also my impression, but I did not post it as I realise it upsets too many posters if you try and bring logic into the discussion.

[SophieB]

More likely that the gap in the armco opened much wider during the initial impact and then sprang back,

 

Possibly or maybe Romain pushed it back, using it as leverage to get himself out, making the gap look smaller. Nonetheless, I think it's clear the sport came uncomfortably close to the horror of having a driver trapped by the broken barrier in a burning car.

 

It's also understandably lower down the order of concerns, but we also had a tyre bouncing across the track above and between the cars. I know they're probably always going to come off in so violent an impact, but still.

[Kalmake]

The halo appears to have taken some damage to the front section with markings suggesting metal on metal resistance. It does look like the halo was the only part of the car high enough to push the top section to where it is but it's such a difficult crash to call. I'm sure the FIA will release their own findings which may clear some of it up.

Aero shrouding is gone from front and left side. For me it's too dirty to say anything about scratches. https://cdn-1.motors...-wreckage-a.jpg

[JimmyClark]

I will just say, I've never been a fan of the halo - mainly on aesthetic and 'OTT' safety grounds, and I've always fully agreed with the argument that it might make extraction difficult in a serious firey accident. 

 

I am happy to say I am 100% wrong, and fully support it now. It was the key thing that saved Romain's life yesterday above all else. 

 

I don't think I've felt so sick seeing an accident live since Greg Moore's, but thankfully this had such a different outcome. 

[Risil]

Incidentally something I was thinking at the time but never followed up was that the section of the Bahrain circuit where Grosjean crashed was also the section where Lewis ran into the back of Alonso back in 2008. Not saying the incidents were particularly similar but it was another incident at the corner where a driver tried and failed to take avoiding action because of big closing speeds.

 

The things you remember. I'm still not happy about that barrier. If, for instance, the halo had saved Jules Bianchi's life in 2014 (not saying it would have), would we have said no worries about the truck being there, these things happen, we'll be more careful in future?

[Muppetmad]

Thank you for this, and to all who replied, this did help. I am still kind of stunned he was able to manage it.

 

This photo from the (excellent) video from therace.com shows how small the gap must have been. It obviously was possible but my goodness, it must have been a question of cms to spare:

 

 

Unless the perspective is skewed?

Indeed. It also strikes me that it would have been very easy for Grosjean to cut himself on the broken armco as he got out: the broken armco just above the cockpit looks awfully sharp.

[Boing 2]

Couple of things jumped out of the pic at me, the hole behind the t-cam looks like where the chassis penetrated the armco before rotating clockwise, the red line looks like the profile of the halo driving through the armco. Without it I reckon that strip of barrier would have just crushed Grosjeans helmet....

 

Second the yellow box shows where the tub has split, obviously having the nose pinned in the armco and the rear of the car swinging like a pendulum the right side would have been under a lot of tensile stress.

 

Edited by Boing 2, 30 November 2020 - 10:55.

[Paul Hurdsfield]

I can't believe the barrier split like that. It's the sort of thing that sadly happened in the 70's too often at tracks like Glen and it wasn't acceptable then and certainly not now. 

 

Grosjean caused the accident and is bloody lucky to be alive. 

Using my experience as a Joiner as an example.

The "pointy"end of the car car lined up perfectly with the small gap between the layers of armco, after that it was just like driving a wedge in to separate the layers. 

Roman is still a very lucky boy though.

[absinthedude]

THINK,,,, the barrier absorbed the impact. IF it had been concrete it would not have and Romain would be dead or seriously injured. 

Tyres in front? Near certainly a funeral pyre. 

Tyres and very low single seaters are not great as the car burrows underneath them. Trapping the driver. We have all seen this more than occasionally.

In this case maybe the halo saved the driver, though if he had been unconsious it would have hindered extraction.

Lance Stroll was hindered by the halo though he was not seriously hurt. 

And in that both drivers will be sore and bruised from the belts and other safety equipment which ofcourse lessens injury. Though if Romain is not concussed,,, I suspect he will be unwell for a few days because of the force of the accident. Lance too though not as bad.

As others have mentioned the cars are too fast for the circuits and have been for a good while

 

Lance may have slight bruising but his accident was not violent at all. Nothing we haven't seen drivers walk away from (and sometimes race the very next day) for 40+ years. There was nothing of any concern in Lance's accident. 

 

I do not think there is any room for doubt regarding the halo. It saved Romain from being decapitated. And that is no exaggeration. It's happened before, thankfully long in the past....when cars pierced armco like that. 

 

A concrete wall does have some give, see Kubica in Canada in 2007 or any number of IndyCar crashes. The difference with a concrete wall is that the nose cannot penetrate it, leading to the car going under the top rail of the armco. 

 

Had there been tyres in front, it is highly likely the car would not have split in two and there would have been no fire. 

[prty]

He was so lucky that a) he was concours and uninjured and b) there was enough space around him in the tangled mess for him to get out of the inferno:





The de-acceleration was incredible, the survival cell went to a full stop almost immediately, judging by tire marks and the pictures of the after math it was about or less than a car's length from hit to full stop of the survival cell, blink of an eye literally.

The deceleration is even more impressive than escaping from the fire. He was in a straight, and came into an immediate stop. I read somewhere he was doing 146mph. How he wasn't knocked out I can't understand. Maybe because the car turned around and the forces were from a rear side impact, which is a good direction to take the hit.

[ANF]

Incidentally something I was thinking at the time but never followed up was that the section of the Bahrain circuit where Grosjean crashed was also the section where Lewis ran into the back of Alonso back in 2008. Not saying the incidents were particularly similar but it was another incident at the corner where a driver tried and failed to take avoiding action because of big closing speeds.
 
The things you remember. I'm still not happy about that barrier. If, for instance, the halo had saved Jules Bianchi's life in 2014 (not saying it would have), would we have said no worries about the truck being there, these things happen, we'll be more careful in future?

And then, of course, there was the "All the time you have to leave a space" incident:




Note the large flatbed truck parked right behind the armco barrier.

You often see aggressive chopping across the track on that straight.
 
(Some context for those who think Alonso was overreacting: This was only the fourth race after the introduction of the rule that a defending driver must leave a space, i.e. "Any driver moving back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off‐line, should leave at least one car width between his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner.")

Edited by ANF, 30 November 2020 - 11:33.