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Catalunya Circuit to improve final sector


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#251 RacingFan10

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Posted 04 June 2023 - 15:42

Already forgot before the weekend the change, but seemed like it was the right call.

 

Definitely yes, much better now, and if the race has been boring it's because of the massive RB dominance and overall the field spread out. Big difference today between cars, RB still dominant and Merc in no man's land between RB and the rest



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#252 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 04 June 2023 - 15:44

Gotta raise my hand and say I was wrong about the final corner being easily flat out, it's far from it. Having said that, going back to the old layout of the final two corners is so much better to watch and better for racing.


The safety and better racing argument was always bull in my opinion, these are some of the fastest cars we’ve had in F1 and they were just fine tackling that last corner, 16 Spanish GP’s with an unnecessary configuration, luckily the FIA finally got something right for once.

#253 ARTGP

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Posted 04 June 2023 - 15:44

Definitely yes, much better now, and if the race has been boring it's because of the massive RB dominance and overall the field spread out. Big difference today between cars, RB still dominant and Merc in no man's land between RB and the rest

 

Without RB it would have just looked like Mercedes dominance. Merc was 20 seconds clear of Ferrari. 



#254 PayasYouRace

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Posted 04 June 2023 - 15:49

The safety and better racing argument was always bull in my opinion, these are some of the fastest cars we’ve had in F1 and they were just fine tackling that last corner, 16 Spanish GP’s with an unnecessary configuration, luckily the FIA finally got something right for once.


The better racing argument came from the faulty logic that because the cars couldn’t follow each other well in the early 00s, then you couldn’t have fast corners before straights. You can see this thinking in the design of every Tilke blank sheet design. Everyone seemed to forget that slow corners just string cars out. Now that cars can follow each other, we can go back to what was always the best rule for good overtaking, a fast or medium speed corner leading to a long straight.

I reckon these cars would put on a decent race at Magny-Cours.

#255 RacingFan10

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Posted 04 June 2023 - 15:53

The better racing argument came from the faulty logic that because the cars couldn’t follow each other well in the early 00s, then you couldn’t have fast corners before straights. You can see this thinking in the design of every Tilke blank sheet design. Everyone seemed to forget that slow corners just string cars out. Now that cars can follow each other, we can go back to what was always the best rule for good overtaking, a fast or medium speed corner leading to a long straight.

I reckon these cars would put on a decent race at Magny-Cours.

 

I think Magny cours was god awful for F1, those high speed esses killed racing



#256 PayasYouRace

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Posted 04 June 2023 - 16:05

I think Magny cours was god awful for F1, those high speed esses killed racing

 

It might be good with the current cars though, because they high speed esses don't kill the racing with them.



#257 Beri

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 12:17

I think Magny cours was god awful for F1, those high speed esses killed racing


Magny Cours would be a great addition to the calendar of F1.

#258 Peat

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 12:25

Magny-Cours was recently added to iRacing and I found it to be so much tighter and twister than i remembered from previous sims. So much so i wondered if the scaling was out!



#259 OO7

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Posted 09 June 2023 - 05:45

It might be good with the current cars though, because they high speed esses don't kill the racing with them.

I think Mugello is a pretty good illustration of this and that was with the 20/21 cars where following is even more difficult.



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#260 JimmyClark

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Posted 09 June 2023 - 07:50

Yes I agree, Magny Cours would be great with current cars. Not sure if it would be too narrow though, but there would be some great moves into Adelaide. And it's fun to drive.

But everybody hated going there. It wasn't nicknamed "Magny Bore" for no reason. It certainly isn't somewhere Liberty would take F1.

#261 Beri

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Posted 09 June 2023 - 07:51

Good video on the comparison of the final corner. Who took it the fastest in Q3? Take it with a little grain of salt, as I never trust the actual graphics to be 100% accurate, but it is a good comparison that certainly shows you do not have to take it full throttle to be quick. Also its great to see how different drivers have different driving styles.

 



#262 CSF

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Posted 09 June 2023 - 08:45

I think Mugello is a pretty good illustration of this and that was with the 20/21 cars where following is even more difficult.

 

 

I wish we could go back to Mugello, comfortably the best track of 2020



#263 PayasYouRace

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Posted 09 June 2023 - 09:11

Yes I agree, Magny Cours would be great with current cars. Not sure if it would be too narrow though, but there would be some great moves into Adelaide. And it's fun to drive.

But everybody hated going there. It wasn't nicknamed "Magny Bore" for no reason. It certainly isn't somewhere Liberty would take F1.


Why do some tracks get a reputation for being “narrow” when in reality the track width is more than sufficient, especially somewhere like Magny-Cours which is a fairly modern purpose built venue?

#264 Beri

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Posted 09 June 2023 - 09:17

Fairly modern? A circuit built in 1960 and having its current layout hardly altered since 1989 is not fairly modern in my book.

#265 Risil

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Posted 09 June 2023 - 09:19

Magny-Cours was recently added to iRacing and I found it to be so much tighter and twister than i remembered from previous sims. So much so i wondered if the scaling was out!

 

Have you seen those Youtube videos where somebody hacks Rfactor or something to multiply the elevation changes or something on a track build? Those are fun. 



#266 Risil

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Posted 09 June 2023 - 09:19

Fairly modern? A circuit built in 1960 and having its current layout hardly altered since 1989 is not fairly modern in my book.

 

You're right, where's the marina!



#267 Beri

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Posted 09 June 2023 - 09:29

You're right, where's the marina!


Yes, indeed. Where are the huge asphalt runoffs?

https://www.youtube....h?v=pNMMJjX00J4

#268 PayasYouRace

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Posted 09 June 2023 - 09:56

Fairly modern? A circuit built in 1960 and having its current layout hardly altered since 1989 is not fairly modern in my book.


The rebuild in 1989 is what I use to qualify it as fairly modern. There are newer tracks out there, but we’re talking about a circuit that was designed with all the facilities you’d expect today. And the adjective fairly obviously implied that it’s not all that modern now. It’s of the generation of circuits build in the 1980s and 90s. What existed before the rebuild isn’t really relevant because it was so heavily rebuilt.

Anyway, quibbling about modernity doesn’t make the circuit magically narrower. The FIA lists it’s reference width as the same as Albert Park and Catalunya.

#269 Beri

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Posted 09 June 2023 - 10:10

The width is good enough. Ive driven once on Magny Cours and I simply can concur that 4 roadgoing cars can easily fit next to one another whilst driving. But the facilities are quite dated already. They overhauled the circuit some 2006-ish. But left the facilities and it shows that it isnt really modern anymore. Not by any means worse than the Nurburgring, Spa or Hockenheim which are more modern. But not as modern as you would perhaps expect.



#270 chdphd

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Posted 09 June 2023 - 10:13

Tracks can be super wide, but once the marbles kick in, they are pretty much one car width wide.



#271 Sterzo

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Posted 09 June 2023 - 10:24

The width is good enough. Ive driven once on Magny Cours and I simply can concur that 4 roadgoing cars can easily fit next to one another whilst driving. But the facilities are quite dated already.

 

Have only seen Magny Cours on TV but thought it was a decent circuit. Ah, facilities, facilities... and no local hotels? Factors which seemed to be given more importance than the track itself. Such is "progress".
 



#272 PayasYouRace

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Posted 09 June 2023 - 10:26

The width is good enough.


And that’s the only point I wanted to make.

#273 Beri

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Posted 09 June 2023 - 10:31

Have only seen Magny Cours on TV but thought it was a decent circuit. Ah, facilities, facilities... and no local hotels? Factors which seemed to be given more importance than the track itself. Such is "progress".
 

 

And the fact that prior to 2009 there was no real motorway heading down to Nevers. This is not the case anymore and a 2x2 motorway is now in place. But the region itself doesnt offer a lot of hotels, no.



#274 PlatenGlass

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Posted 10 June 2023 - 06:33

I doubt we'll see the same for Mexico given the grandstand structure.

Seeing how much better Barcelona now is, it's a shame that the similarly-butchered Mexico is unlikely to ever get its great final corner back.

#275 Goron3

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Posted 10 June 2023 - 07:47

Seeing how much better Barcelona now is, it's a shame that the similarly-butchered Mexico is unlikely to ever get its great final corner back.


The entirety of that circuit is just a butchered version of the original. Even the first and middle sectors now are awful.