692 replies to this topic

[HeadFirst]

As far as Sergio at Red Bull is concerned .... I think Checo is a fine driver, and will certainly give Max strong support. He is a definite upgrade as a #2, but does not change the fact that for Max to challenge for the WDC Red Bull-Honda need to raise their game. Unless Lewis chooses to retire of course.

[Branislav]

Headline surely misses out the word "backwards".

 

RBR lose works deal, young driver programme is dead, Aston Martin partnership over, sign a journeyman...

Young driver programme isn't dead.

https://en.wikipedia...ull_Junior_Team

 

Title sponsor is gone, of course, but a new one will come

 

As for 'lose works deal', hold your horses. Red Bull might change F1 as we know her

[Rinehart]

Young driver programme isn't dead.

https://en.wikipedia...ull_Junior_Team

 

Title sponsor is gone, of course, but a new one will come

 

As for 'lose works deal', hold your horses. Red Bull might change F1 as we know her

 

Wasn't being that serious... !

[pdac]

Wasn't being that serious... !

 

Well, the response wasn't that serious either, surely.

[Paco]

Headline surely misses out the word "backwards".

RBR lose works deal, young driver programme is dead, Aston Martin partnership over, sign a journeyman...

Howjis driver program dead, we have yet to see what’s Tsunoda is capable of. If he gives Gasly a hard time and RB give 2-3 years to develop it could still give a driver alongside Max. Just cause Gasly and Albon didn’t work out doesn’t mean its dead. Time will tell in 2021 where RB and everything lies.

[lio007]

Well, the response wasn't that serious either, surely.

 

I'm not sure. 

Edited by lio007, 05 January 2021 - 19:45.

[Branislav]

Howjis driver program dead, we have yet to see what’s Tsunoda is capable of. If he gives Gasly a hard time and RB give 2-3 years to develop it could still give a driver alongside Max. Just cause Gasly and Albon didn’t work out doesn’t mean its dead. Time will tell in 2021 where RB and everything lies.

Just to add that no other team has both drivers from their academy. So I don't know why they attack bulls...

[FNG]

One can argue that RB has had the most successful young driver program of them all. Not sure why they get flak for this and Merc get a free pass. Has Merc ever placed a young driver in their car? I already know the answer and it is zero times.

[Branislav]

And another one: How many are Red Bull's drivers (current and past) now in the field and how many are from others?

 

Let's see:

 

6 from RB (Max, Ricciardo, Vettel, Gasly, Tsunoda, Sainz)

 

2 from Mercedes (Ocon, Russell)

 

3 from Ferrari (Leclerc, Mick, Perez)

 

2 from McLaren (Hamilton, Norris)

 

 

Bulls again won

[FNG]

And another one: How many are Red Bull's drivers (current and past) now in the field and how many are from others?

 

Let's see:

 

6 from RB (Max, Ricciardo, Vettel, Gasly, Tsunoda, Sainz)

 

2 from Mercedes (Ocon, Russell)

 

3 from Ferrari (Leclerc, Mick, Perez)

 

2 from McLaren (Hamilton, Norris)

 

 

Bulls again won

 

 

and again from your list, how may Merc drivers were put in the factory team? Zero!

[pdac]

And another one: How many are Red Bull's drivers (current and past) now in the field and how many are from others?

 

Let's see:

 

6 from RB (Max, Ricciardo, Vettel, Gasly, Tsunoda, Sainz)

 

2 from Mercedes (Ocon, Russell)

 

3 from Ferrari (Leclerc, Mick, Perez)

 

2 from McLaren (Hamilton, Norris)

 

 

Bulls again won

 

Not really - the primary aim of the program surely must be to get a stream of new drivers ready for the Red Bull F1 team, when one is needed. That does not seem to have happened.

[Branislav]

Not really - the primary aim of the program surely must be to get a stream of new drivers ready for the Red Bull F1 team, when one is needed. That does not seem to have happened.

One question. Who else has two drivers in one their team?

[pdac]

One question. Who else has two drivers in one their team?

 

Deflection.

[Branislav]

Deflection.

Okay, that means the others are as bad as bulls

 

And this is first year I think that Red Bull has only one their driver in a team and the other one is imported

[Clatter]

One can argue that RB has had the most successful young driver program of them all. Not sure why they get flak for this and Merc get a free pass. Has Merc ever placed a young driver in their car? I already know the answer and it is zero times.

 

Did you miss George Russells debut in the Merc?

[charly0418]

The “Mercedes young driver program” should be renamed the Toto Wolf client list, it’s a joke how the only drivers considered are the ones that work with Toto

[Paco]

The “Mercedes young driver program” should be renamed the Toto Wolf client list, it’s a joke how the only drivers considered are the ones that work with Toto

You are not but that is also a luxury as a result of having the drive everyone dreams of and having a decent stock tobpick from. RB have been the same but failed as of late as has Renault jrs and the suddenly departure of Ricciardo.

Who cares but life is that way of early tie-ups. I have my own ideas to solve it but only if Liberty hires me 😂

[HeadFirst]

One question. Who else has two drivers in one their team?

 

The real question should be who cares, or why should we? Surely the object is to identify potential and develop greatness, not fill seats on the grid.

[FNG]

Did you miss George Russells debut in the Merc?

 

One race as a sub! I'm talking about their official in season  driver. They have never put one in the car to date. Or was Bottas part of the Merc young driver academy? Genuine question. I don't know.

 

Last year RB had 4 official seats occupied by 4 official RB drivers. They put Merc to shame with their young driver program. I'm not an RB fan but their young driver program has been head and shoulders above anyone else on the grid

[Myrvold]

And another one: How many are Red Bull's drivers (current and past) now in the field and how many are from others?

 

Let's see:

 

6 from RB (Max, Ricciardo, Vettel, Gasly, Tsunoda, Sainz)

 

2 from Mercedes (Ocon, Russell)

 

3 from Ferrari (Leclerc, Mick, Perez)

 

2 from McLaren (Hamilton, Norris)

 

 

Bulls again won

 

If Verstappen is counted as a RB product, then Stroll should be a Ferrari product?

[Branislav]

If Verstappen is counted as a RB product, then Stroll should be a Ferrari product?

 

Was till 2015. He debuted with Williams in 2017 when he was no more Ferrari driver.

[shure]

If Verstappen is counted as a RB product, then Stroll should be a Ferrari product?

why?

[shure]

Did you miss George Russells debut in the Merc?

be fair,  A single race for emergency cover is not really the same thing.  It's not like they planned it.

 

You'd have to say the Mercedes junior program has not really been anything to write home about.  It doesn't give young drivers a proper F1 chance like the RB one does.  Even should Russell finally get a seat at Merc that would be a single driver in how many years?

[Clatter]

One race as a sub! I'm talking about their official in season driver. They have never put one in the car to date. Or was Bottas part of the Merc young driver academy? Genuine question. I don't know.

Last year RB had 4 official seats occupied by 4 official RB drivers. They put Merc to shame with their young driver program. I'm not an RB fan but their young driver program has been head and shoulders above anyone else on the grid

I only answered your question as posed. They have put one of their junior drivers in the car, even if it was for just one race. Not a great record I agree. I never quite understand why people complain about the RB program being brutal, when they generally give all their drivers a decent chance in F1.

[pdac]

Strange  ...

 

Who'd have thought we would have so few mentions of Perez in a "Red Bull signs Sergio Perez for 2021" thread?

[BRG]

Who's Perez?

[Branislav]

Who's Perez?

 

Vice champion in making?

[MasterOfCoin]

Strange  ...

 

Who'd have thought we would have so few mentions of Perez in a "Red Bull signs Sergio Perez for 2021" thread?

The day he beats Max in a race with the RBR, you'll see Perez fans and coming out of the woodwork in droves......

[Requiem84]

Not only Perez fans, but also Albon, Gasly and Ricciardo fans I recon .

[Branislav]

Not only Perez fans, but also Albon, Gasly and Ricciardo fans I recon .

 

true

[ARTGP]

If Perez does beat Max in a race head to head next year, it just further damages the careers of Albon and Gasly. I don't see the positives for that fan club to be honest. It would just prove they are not better than Perez.

Edited by ARTGP, 06 January 2021 - 15:38.

[charly0418]

The day he beats Max in a race with the RBR, you'll see Perez fans and coming out of the woodwork in droves......

theres not many of us here, cant compete with the dutch, they be crazy

[KWSN - DSM]

theres not many of us here, cant compete with the dutch, they be crazy

 

Not at all... They would have clear and concise reasons why it happened, one of which would be explaining the issue hampering Verstappen and not Perez. Not just the Dutch though, any given Verstappen fan in any given Country, like how any given Perez fan in any given country will have clear and concise reasons why Perez is not beating or threating Verstappen at all, when all at the face of it seems equal.

 

For a visual dig the old Mercedes Hamilton and Rosberg threads up, supposedly Rosberg never beat Hamilton in a true head-to-head, according to a largish segment of posters, including the year Rosberg won the World Championship.

[Paco]

I do not get all this ridiculous hype of "driver development" programs by the big teams.  Just cause they don't find good talent, who cares.  It's about giving back and giving some drivers a chance to show what they can do.

 

The big problem is the cost of karting and early jr stuff.. families should be able to afford it.  Find the best and then get help moving up.

 

The reason the pipeline is dry is because they are not finding good drivers, they are paying for bad drivers to try and learn how to drive but it doesn't mean they have innate talent like what we used to see.

 

Just like everything, it's a formula a+b+x+$... hopefully we can make you fast...  takes your last name, $, a couple of ok drivers and "belief" you can be something.. vs what they show on track.   You often hear from young drivers how engineers set up the car for them and engineers rarely talk to them.. its how much money you bring to the team to fund the squad that matters most..

 

So yeah, drivers get delusioned... engineers get delusioned.  Thats where racing is broken.  Starts way way way back.

Edited by Paco, 06 January 2021 - 21:53.

[Clatter]

I do not get all this ridiculous hype of "driver development" programs by the big teams.  Just cause they don't find good talent, who cares.  It's about giving back and giving some drivers a chance to show what they can do.

 

The big problem is the cost of karting and year jr stuff.. families should be able to afford it.  Find the best and then get help moving up.

 

The reason the pipeline is dry is because they are not finding good drivers, they are paying for bad drivers to try and learn how to drive but it doesn't mean they have innate talent like what he used to see.

 

Just like everything, it's a formula a+b+x+$... hopefully we can make you fast...  takes your last name, $, a couple of ok drivers and "belief" you can be something.. vs what they show on track.   You often hear from young drivers how engineers set up the car for them and engineers rarely talk to them.. its how much money you bring to the team to fund the squad that matters most..

 

So yeah, drivers get delusioned... engineers get delusioned.  Thats where racing is broken.  Starts way way way back.

 

But for the teams it isn't about giving back, it's 100% about getting their hands on the next top driver before someone else does.

[Paco]

But for the teams it isn't about giving back, it's 100% about getting their hands on the next top driver before someone else does.

 

For me, that's not why and unlikely.

 

As we have seen even in recent times, drivers move around pretty easily.  Being "locked" can be actually worse... so many Mercedes guys got locked out of the grid as a result.. Ocon was beyond lucky to have found his Renault seat and save his career a bit.  

[Paco]

Strange  ...

 

Who'd have thought we would have so few mentions of Perez in a "Red Bull signs Sergio Perez for 2021" thread?

 

LOL.  Many :-)

 

RB = Max = RB.. there is no room for anything else.    Plus, we have nothing bad or good to say about Sergio, other then that was probably the best option for them.  Lets see what Sergio can do once behind the wheel.

Edited by Paco, 06 January 2021 - 22:04.

[baddog]

Well its up to Sergio to go out there and prove it is NOT all about Max

 

Its too easy for us to forget how F1 works, when the rubber hits the road, everything else is forgotten but performance and results.

 

There are a handful of exceptions but I can think of only two, and those are arguable.

 

If Sergio is in the same space as Max on performance then he will be lauded to the rafters and rightly so.

[Paco]

Well its up to Sergio to go out there and prove it is NOT all about Max

 

Its too easy for us to forget how F1 works, when the rubber hits the road, everything else is forgotten but performance and results.

 

There are a handful of exceptions but I can think of only two, and those are arguable.

 

If Sergio is in the same space as Max on performance then he will be lauded to the rafters and rightly so.

 

Or Max would have been taken down a peg.  I don't think Sergio will be lauded to the rafters for anything.. sorry.  His F1 stints have been good but no more.   His form against Ocon forever sealed that.   

 

Unless Perez surpassed Max which is sooooo unlikely.. it will be just within expectation.  As long as he closes the gap and beats him a few times, it proves Max pedigree and his own.

[baddog]

Or Max would have been taken down a peg.  I don't think Sergio will be lauded to the rafters for anything.. sorry.  His F1 stints have been good but no more.   His form against Ocon forever sealed that.   

 

Unless Perez surpassed Max which is sooooo unlikely.. it will be just within expectation.  As long as he closes the gap and beats him a few times, it proves Max pedigree and his own.

 

Oh I think he is NOT good enough to really trouble Max but if he does, if he were to be close most weekends and outqualify or outrace Max on pace a few times you watch, people would change their views..

[PlayboyRacer]

theres not many of us here, cant compete with the dutch, they be crazy

Ain't that the truth lol. Max walks on water over there.

[Clatter]

For me, that's not why and unlikely.

 

As we have seen even in recent times, drivers move around pretty easily.  Being "locked" can be actually worse... so many Mercedes guys got locked out of the grid as a result.. Ocon was beyond lucky to have found his Renault seat and save his career a bit.  

 

What makes you think the team cares if the driver is locked to them? If they have him on the books, it means no one else can have him without their agreement. May not be great for the driver, but the teams are looking after themselves first.

[jAnO76]

Perez very well may get exposed by Max and show how much that Merc copy was wasted with Perez/Stroll driving over the course of the season (Not talking about one race or two race events)

 

Perez will do better than Albon at least and should be a big upgrade and get some results? But I doubt he will be anywhere near Max.

 

This was officially the best initial response to this news… 👍