25 replies to this topic

[Paul Taylor]

By old, I mean the layout used in the 50s to late 80s. So far I have only found two...One on Google Earth from c1949 and another from 1977 which is very low quality.

 

I understand Autosport magazine printed an aerial shot in 1990 with a "Thanks to Fosters for the British Grand Prix". It might have been the centrefold. I would like to see a scan if anyone has a copy.

 

Otherwise I haven't seen any of the old layout. Anyone have anything?

[john aston]

If you get a copy of 'Silverstone' by Chas Parker you will find all  you need.  

[Tim Murray]

This one is dated July 1965:



Photo: Victor Blackman/Daily Express/Hulton/Getty Images
https://www.gettyima...hoto/1201411006

[Paul Taylor]

If you get a copy of 'Silverstone' by Chas Parker you will find all  you need.  

 

Would love to buy it, but it seems delivery options to Japan (where I live) are extremely limited.

 

If you are able to provide a scan of the image(s) privately I would appreciate it 

[Bloggsworth]

This one is dated July 1965:



Photo: Victor Blackman/Daily Express/Hulton/Getty Images
https://www.gettyima...hoto/1201411006

Ahh - proper Silverstone.

[Odseybod]

I was puzzled by the 1965 Getty pic that Tim posted - very underpopulated for a Grand Prix and where were all the fixed-wing aircraft that would normally be lined up on the non-active runway? And why was Victore Blackman being aviated around for some overhead snaps?

 

The answe I think is that the pic was taken very early on Friday 8th befoe many had arrived by car or aircraft for practice, for the race on Sunday 10th, and the Grand Prix that year was sponsored by the Daily Express, which I seem to remember V.B. did most of his work for, mainly with Leicas.

 

So I'm so far feeling quite smug about my detective work, until someone comes up with better answers ...

[opplock]

British GP on a Sunday? Not when I started going in 1981. Dutch Grand Prix was held on 18th July, British GP on 10th so would have been a Saturday. 

 

Would there have been many aircraft at Silverstone in 1965? With top rate of UK tax being "19 for you and 1 for me" I'd have thought the market rather limited.  

[Odseybod]

According to Getty's indexing. it's 1965, not 1985, so quite a few of the drivers (well, Brabham for one) would be fying themselves in, probably C. Chapman too. But quite correct, the GP that year wa on a Saturday (maybe to avoid clashing with the Wombles and/or a Cup Final?), so that pic (taken on the 8th) owuld have been on the Thursday, before things really got started.

 

l

[Tim Murray]

The British GP was never held on a Sunday in those days. The first Sunday GP at Brands was in 1976, but Silverstone didn’t run a GP on a Sunday until 1985.

[Odseybod]

I suppose we made practising/qualifying less of a Big Thing, so you could get away with having it only on the Friday. Ah, the memory grows dim ...

[D-Type]

I think it was a legal issue.  You couldn't charge admission on a Sunday until they changed the law ( which must have been in 1976)

Club meetings got round it by charging for programmes and implying but not insisting that you had to have a programme to enter.

[PayasYouRace]

I suppose we made practising/qualifying less of a Big Thing, so you could get away with having it only on the Friday. Ah, the memory grows dim ...

Thursday practice was a thing too.

[Tim Murray]

In 1965 there was an hour and a half of F1 practice on the Thursday morning, an hour on the Thursday afternoon and two and a half hours on the Friday morning.

[john aston]

I think it was a legal issue.  You couldn't charge admission on a Sunday until they changed the law ( which must have been in 1976)

Club meetings got round it by charging for programmes and implying but not insisting that you had to have a programme to enter.

I don't think so , unless it was unique to the venue. I attended scores of  Sat/Sun and Sunday only hillclimbs, rallycross, drag racing and circuit racing events between 1968 and 1976 and the only time it was free was when I was marshalling  . I have never heard the programme explanation before , but can clearly remember one programme being shared between a group of us, all of whom had paid for entry .

[Paul Taylor]

Getting closer to the goal I suppose, but looking for a vertical aerial rather than an oblique.

 

This must be just after the 1949 Grand Prix

 

 

 

 

And this was printed on the front of Silverstone's Silver Jubilee dinner menu in 1973. This is what I need, but in higher resolution:

 

Edited by Paul Taylor, 28 December 2020 - 07:51.

[Stephen W]

I think it was a legal issue.  You couldn't charge admission on a Sunday until they changed the law ( which must have been in 1976)

Club meetings got round it by charging for programmes and implying but not insisting that you had to have a programme to enter.

 

 

I don't think so , unless it was unique to the venue. I attended scores of  Sat/Sun and Sunday only hillclimbs, rallycross, drag racing and circuit racing events between 1968 and 1976 and the only time it was free was when I was marshalling  . I have never heard the programme explanation before , but can clearly remember one programme being shared between a group of us, all of whom had paid for entry .

 

All to do with the Sunday Trading Act. I believe you could get the local authority to grant permission however, if there was a local church nearby to the venue it would usually be dismissed.; I believe you could run events and not charge for admission - some events still charged but that was for the programme which allowed entry.

[PayasYouRace]

Getting closer to the goal I suppose, but looking for a vertical aerial rather than an oblique.

 

This must be just after the 1949 Grand Prix

 

 

 

I’d always assumed it was just a chicane at Club (think Woodcote in the 1970s), not a jaunt down the runway and back.

[RCH]

I think it was a legal issue.  You couldn't charge admission on a Sunday until they changed the law ( which must have been in 1976)

Club meetings got round it by charging for programmes and implying but not insisting that you had to have a programme to enter.

 

Not necessarily a legal issue although local by-laws could have had something to do with it. Even as late as the '60's a puritan ethic still affected our treatment of Sundays. Remember pubs couldn't open on Sundays in Wales? It was considered "bad form" to hang out your washing on a Sunday. Consequently major sporting events always happened on a Saturday, Sunday was the day of rest, after attending church of course. Catholic countries, somewhat oddly, were much more liberal about what could happen on the Lord's day. In later years the British GP and other events came to take place on Sundays to tie in with normal global practice and as Britain finally entered the 20th. C. Given the size of the Aussie and NZ presence on TNF it would be interesting to know whether it was the same in "The Colonies".

[Tim Murray]

This earlier thread may be of interest:

Motor racing on Sundays banned or just unusual in the past

[opplock]

My recollection is that in early 80s Brands Hatch used to charge for entry to "special trackside enclosures" or similar. Entry to the venue was free provided that you were happy to stay in the car parks adjacent to A20. 

 

Things changed in NZ during the 70s. Local Formula Vee ace and preacher George Hetterscheid made the front page of the Sunday newspaper (a new development) by describing Wellington as Sodom and Gomorrah. Race days at Levin were always on Saturday apart from the 1974 and 1975 Tasman events. From memory two day meetings at Manfeild which opened in late 1973 were Saturday/Sunday. 

[Allan Lupton]

I’d always assumed it was just a chicane at Club (think Woodcote in the 1970s), not a jaunt down the runway and back.

In his Track Maps series ozpata shows something that could be either depending on how wide the track was:

[Charlieman]

The oblique photos show how domed the circuit was. Some of the surrounding countryside even seems to be 'rolling'.

[Paul Taylor]

In his Track Maps series ozpata shows something that could be either depending on how wide the track was:

 

 

Always take track maps like these with a pinch of salt.

 

As you can see, at Becketts, they originally just took the shortest route across the end of the runway. Eventually they made them go around the outside edge, but I can't tell you when the change occurred. The track map doesn't take that into account and makes it look like there is only one route around the corner.

 

Edited by Paul Taylor, 28 December 2020 - 11:08.

[PayasYouRace]

In his Track Maps series ozpata shows something that could be either depending on how wide the track was:

 

Well an actual photo is a lot better than a hobbyist piece of artwork, as lovely and well researched as they are.

[Tim Murray]

I’d always assumed it was just a chicane at Club (think Woodcote in the 1970s), not a jaunt down the runway and back.

It was definitely a series of separate corners. Here’s what I posted about it in the Track Maps thread:

According to Maurice Hamilton in his book British Grand Prix the official length of the 1949 circuit, with chicane at Club, was 3 miles exactly. When the chicane was removed for 1950 the official length came down to 2 miles 1,564 yards (which equates to the 2.89 miles quoted above by Allan). Thus the Club chicane added nearly 200 yards to the circuit length, indicating that it was probably a more significant series of corners than it appears on Ozpata's map. There's a photo in the Hamilton book showing cars negotiating it, and there would appear to have been a fairly sharp right-hander onto the runway, then a short straight up to a hairpin left, then another short straight to the right-hander which took them back onto the perimeter track. It was apparently extremely unpopular with the drivers.

Cpbell replied with a link to a Youtube clip which shows cars negotiating the corners:

Footage of the chicane can be viewed between 1:16 and 1:24 in the following video:
https://www.youtube....I5BCSvf_Y&t=73s

[Paul Taylor]

This shows the Club "chicane" wasn't used for the 1949 Daily Express trophy

https://media.gettyi...833?s=2048x2048