1834 replies to this topic

[gruntguru]

Very impressive. I wonder if the inbuilt route planners take account of traffic conditions - like Google Maps does.

[Bob Riebe]

GOOOOLLY -- 36 pages.

 

By now I thought Herr Magoo would be just little pile ash dust!

 

 

`

Edited by Bob Riebe, 11 April 2023 - 22:17.

[gruntguru]

A pile of ash plus CO2 to the atmosphere.

All those carbon emissions his Tesla has saved - we can't turn round and "Flame" the owner.

[Magoo]

GOOOOLLY -- 36 pages.

 

By now I thought Herr Magoo would be just little pile ash dust!

 

 

`

 

 

Well, Tesla is a very interesting car, and the most disruptive thing to happen to the auto industry in our lifetimes. 

[Magoo]

Very impressive. I wonder if the inbuilt route planners take account of traffic conditions - like Google Maps does.

 

I don't know that, but it appears to. Traffic density is shown on the navigation screen and the routes seem to adapt in response. 

[Magoo]

A pile of ash plus CO2 to the atmosphere.

All those carbon emissions his Tesla has saved - we can't turn round and "Flame" the owner.

 

To be perfectly honest, I didn't buy a Tesla for tree-hugging reasons. I do believe in the long run EVs are clearly better for the environment. But the CO2 reduction in particular, while significant, is relatively small in the total climate change picture and the changeover will take decades to accomplish. 

 

I think the big story about EVs are that they are simply better than ICE. 

[desmo]

If I look at an ICE car and a BEV one side-by-side, the ICE version makes almost no engineering sense at all except for edge use cases.

[Zoe]

A lot comes down on how to carry the required energy and ease of use. No wonder that in the first days of the automobile there existed various versions:

 

Steam: so so, a pita to operate

electric: so easy to use, but the energy....

ICE: best compromise

 

Evolution has shown the way, with new technology things may (and will) change.

[404KF2]

Preferably cars will largely be relegated to "pleasure use only" and the spectre of clogged superhighways full of commuter vehicles - whether ICE or EV - will become a bad memory.

[GreenMachine]

I doubt it, cars have given us independence, and while ICE may be on the way out we will not give that up any time soon.

[Bloggsworth]

Preferably cars will largely be relegated to "pleasure use only" and the spectre of clogged superhighways full of commuter vehicles - whether ICE or EV - will become a bad memory.

Glad I'll be dead by then...

[Magoo]

Lots of people despise Musk and personally, I think he's a jerk. But none of this would have happened without him. There would be no Great EV Flip. 

 

Musk is the gun to the auto industry's head. They never wanted to make EVs. They weren't opposed to building a few for show, but now they have to make lots of them. They have to make good ones and they need to learn how to do it profitably, or they're sunk. 

[Magoo]

I doubt it, cars have given us independence, and while ICE may be on the way out we will not give that up any time soon.

 

I drive an EV every day and I don't feel any of this oft-cited loss of independence. 

 

As I said earlier, soon after I started driving an EV, ICE cars stopped making a lot of  sense. Like a gasoline-powered guitar amplifier. Why? 

[Magoo]

another cool video, Waymo vs FSD.

  

This is an excellent video. This lady knows the systems. 

 

I think maybe Tesla could add a voice narrator like Waymo's. I think drivers would find it useful. 

[Zoe]

 Like a gasoline-powered guitar amplifier. Why? 

Since this is (I assume) a somewhat geek-laden forum, the answer is: because we can!

 

(could you imagine an electric hotrod?)

[gruntguru]

I don't know that, but it appears to. Traffic density is shown on the navigation screen and the routes seem to adapt in response. 

 

I wonder if they get enough data from Tesla vehicles or they use third party data from perhaps Google.

[gruntguru]

Preferably cars will largely be relegated to "pleasure use only" and the spectre of clogged superhighways full of commuter vehicles - whether ICE or EV - will become a bad memory.

 

 

I doubt it, cars have given us independence, and while ICE may be on the way out we will not give that up any time soon.

 

 

I drive an EV every day and I don't feel any of this oft-cited loss of independence. 

 

As I said earlier, soon after I started driving an EV, ICE cars stopped making a lot of  sense. Like a gasoline-powered guitar amplifier. Why? 

 

I think Green Machine was referring to cars vs mass transit.

[Magoo]

I think Green Machine was referring to cars vs mass transit.

 

 

Ohhhh, all apologies. 

[Vitesse2]

Thought-provoking article from Rowan Atkinson, musing on the environmental credentials of EVs and with an overview of alternatives:

 

I love electric vehicles – and was an early adopter. But increasingly I feel duped.

[Bloggsworth]

Thought-provoking article from Rowan Atkinson, musing on the environmental credentials of EVs and with an overview of alternatives:

 

I love electric vehicles – and was an early adopter. But increasingly I feel duped.

 

As much as I dislike Mr Bean, I am with Atkinson on this one. I have always mooted the idea that keeping a car for years is the greenest thing you can do, as you are not repeating the carbon cost cycle of the basic manufacture over short intervals. Modern cars are very reliable (In 9 years my Skoda, apart from regular servicing, has only had a Lamda sensor replaced and when tested registers 0% CO₂), and virtually rustproof. I had a Cavalier Coupe for 9 years and a Manta GTE for 13, none of the three required children to die producing the cobalt and lithium for their small batteries.

[Catalina Park]

..none of the three required children to die producing the cobalt and lithium for their small batteries.

How about the cobalt used to produce the engine and transmission?

[Bloggsworth]

How about the cobalt used to produce the engine and transmission?

 

There is a quantative difference!

[cbo]

Thought-provoking article from Rowan Atkinson, musing on the environmental credentials of EVs and with an overview of alternatives:

I love electric vehicles – and was an early adopter. But increasingly I feel duped.

All you need to read in that article is the fact that the writer is a comedian.

It is vastly more efficient to use green electricity directly for propulsion by charging a battery in an EV than using it to produce hydrogen, transport said hydrogen to a filling station, fill it into car that inefficiently converts it to electricity in a fuel cell or burns it even more inefficiently in combustion engine.

[Catalina Park]

There is a quantative difference!

Yes, the latest generation of Tesla Model 3 batteries don't use any cobalt in their batteries.

[Vitesse2]

All you need to read in that article is the fact that the writer is a comedian.

He also has a degree in electrical and electronic engineering and a master's in control systems. As stated in the article. Hedy Lamarr was an actress, but she also filed the original patent which underlies mobile phone technology and wi-fi.

 

It is vastly more efficient to use green electricity directly for propulsion by charging a battery in an EV than using it to produce hydrogen, transport said hydrogen to a filling station, fill it into car that inefficiently converts it to electricity in a fuel cell or burns it even more inefficiently in combustion engine.

Very probably. And he also says in the article that 'Hydrogen is emerging as an interesting alternative fuel, even though we are slow in developing a truly “green” way of manufacturing it.' Which I think is pretty much your point? He doesn't present it as a currently economically viable alternative to conventional ICEs. Hydrogen is also being explored as an alternative to mains gas for cooking and heating, so if that proves viable, there's a ready-made delivery network if it can be successfully produced in a 'green' fashion.

[Magoo]

As much as I dislike Mr Bean, I am with Atkinson on this one. I have always mooted the idea that keeping a car for years is the greenest thing you can do, as you are not repeating the carbon cost cycle of the basic manufacture over short intervals. 

 

 

Unfortunately, it's not really true. There is far more environmental impact in a car's use than in its manufacture. 

[Magoo]

It is vastly more efficient to use green electricity directly for propulsion by charging a battery in an EV than using it to produce hydrogen, transport said hydrogen to a filling station, fill it into car that inefficiently converts it to electricity in a fuel cell or burns it even more inefficiently in combustion engine.

 

Exactly so. The case for hydrogen is essentially based on the hope that a clean and free way to produce it can be managed. That would compensate for all the cost and inefficency locked into the deal. 

[MatsNorway]

Well we did get fusion going recently. So we can hope. Banning ICE is stupid tho, you can produce fuels from non fossils. The scale is just not feasible currently. But if 90+% of cars end up being EVs perhaps some alcohol/methanol mixed engines can still be running around. Then there is stuff like the E-fuel. https://dealer.porsc...Carburant-efuel

 

Edited by MatsNorway, 14 June 2023 - 15:43.

[Magoo]

Well we did get fusion going recently. So we can hope. Banning ICE is stupid tho, you can produce fuels from non fossils. The scale is just not feasible currently. But if 90+% of cars end up being EVs perhaps some alcohol/methanol mixed engines can still be running around. Then there is stuff like the E-fuel. https://dealer.porsc...Carburant-efuel

 

 

The title and title card of this video are blatant frauds.Clickbait, in a word. 

 

Porsche has never made such claims and they are no part of the company's current policy or strategy. 

[Nemo1965]

Question to the moderators: the discussion in the two threads (Flame me, etc) and 'Electric cars rule,etc' seems to have converged. Should they perhaps be merged?

[desmo]

Perhaps they should but I'm not. Seriously, they are somewhat differing subjects, albeit with some common ground.

[GreenMachine]

Maybe move some stuff out of here to the other thread?

[Nemo1965]

Maybe move some stuff out of here to the other thread?

 

Nah, that is too complicated. Never mind. I reall enjoy this thread, but the way. 

[Magoo]

Question to the moderators: the discussion in the two threads (Flame me, etc) and 'Electric cars rule,etc' seems to have converged. Should they perhaps be merged?

 

Let's combine all  the ICE threads to make room for the  EV.

[mariner]

Who says Tesla's are unaffordable - under $20K new in California - well sort of 

 

https://www.electrif...-in-california/