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Ferrari 2021 (Team Thread)


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#1 FLB

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Posted 18 February 2021 - 15:01

The Scuderia has just signed a major deal with Shell:

 

https://joesaward.wo...rrari/#comments

 

Joe Saward is saying that it doesn't mean the end of the relationship with PMI, but Formula Passion is saying it is probably the opposite:

 

https://www.formulap...ell-550030.html (in italiano)

 

FP has its entries at Ferrari though Ferrari's ex-head of Press Relations, Alberto Antonini. They're credible.



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#2 Branislav

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Posted 20 February 2021 - 11:34

If any team is going to be a surprise, then it will be this one. Third in standings with couple of wins is what I expect. At least.



#3 shure

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Posted 20 February 2021 - 11:36

If any team is going to be a surprise, then it will be this one. Third in standings with couple of wins is what I expect. At least.

I'd be surprised if they're not fighting for 2nd tbh.  I'm almost 100% convinced last year was a blip exacerbated by Covid and this year they'll be back on form.  Interested to see some potential Leclerc/Max battles - Merc will be too far ahead as usual



#4 TheAviator

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Posted 20 February 2021 - 11:46

I'd be surprised if they're not fighting for 2nd tbh. I'm almost 100% convinced last year was a blip exacerbated by Covid and this year they'll be back on form. Interested to see some potential Leclerc/Max battles - Merc will be too far ahead as usual

Actually I have a hunch this time RB might be closer then ever to Merc. I expect Ferrari to be infront of AM and Mclaren by touch.

#5 Branislav

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Posted 20 February 2021 - 11:48

I'd be surprised if they're not fighting for 2nd tbh. 

Maybe with Merc who knows :)

 

TBH I would like of course 3 horses race but it haven't been for a long time ago...



#6 shure

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Posted 20 February 2021 - 12:20

Actually I have a hunch this time RB might be closer then ever to Merc. I expect Ferrari to be infront of AM and Mclaren by touch.

I'd be very happy if there was actually a battle of sorts at the front.  The pessimist in me thinks that's not really likely, though.  I think Merc will be as far ahead of everyone in 2021 as they were in 2020, unfortunately.  Be overjoyed to be proven wrong



#7 ARTGP

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Posted 20 February 2021 - 19:42

The only way I see a battle is if Mercedes have massive correlation issues. I.E they forget to turn the windtunnel over from the Racing Point settings  :p



#8 vlado

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Posted 20 February 2021 - 20:36

Ferrari will be fighting for 4-5th with McLaren and the Merc B team Vettel drives for. 



#9 NixxxoN

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Posted 20 February 2021 - 20:56

When is the car launch?



#10 FLB

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Posted 20 February 2021 - 21:03

When is the car launch?

The 26th of February.



#11 TheAviator

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Posted 20 February 2021 - 22:15

The 26th of February.

Thats team launch. On 10th is car launch.

#12 Enzoluis

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 17:06

If any team is going to be a surprise, then it will be this one. Third in standings with couple of wins is what I expect. At least.

 

The future is unpredictable. True is the SF1000 were the 2020 car with more romm to improvement, if they have made an engine improvement and fixed the rear of the car will be a big jump in performance.The possibilities then will depend in what have done the others.



#13 ferrarista

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 06:55

https://ewitpa36zv5y...ici-550927.html

so also Antonini, after Nugnes, reports Ferrari going all in for the 2022 engine; apparently some problems are being experienced on the dyno, but Nugnes reported as “certainty” this new development path.

Regarding 2021, I don’t expect a massive improvement on 2020, because also the others don’t stand still, I think it will be another year of big sufference, expecially considering that old and undeveloped frontend which Ferrari will have and the new tyres would also be understeery according to Pirelli.

#14 Ijsman

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 12:32

Thats team launch. On 10th is car launch.

Does anyone know what the team launch actually encompasses?



#15 Seanspeed

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 12:35

Thats team launch. On 10th is car launch.

What is a team launch? 



#16 ARTGP

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 23:35

What is a team launch? 

 

Personnel launch. They need to get the Sainz gear moving in the team store  :lol:


Edited by ARTGP, 23 February 2021 - 23:36.


#17 vlado

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 19:07

merchandise launch  :stoned:

 

I dunno but the chances of them performing worse than 2020 are very low so its going to be better overall. 


Edited by vlado, 24 February 2021 - 19:09.


#18 CrossComparisonOracle

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 07:07

Leclerc is a phenomenally fast driver. I had doubts about his race pace after 2019, but in 2020 he removed any doubts I had about any aspect of his speed.

There are still two lingering uncertainties about him:

1. Mistakes
2. Rain

Mistakes is something that can be tamed over time. He needs to work on his patience on opening laps in particular.

As for his driving in the wet, not sure how much improvement can be made there. That might just be a lack of feel.

#19 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 07:12

I think his wet driving is a weakness. In mixed conditions he actually can be rapid (Turkey) but he hasn't impressed in full wet conditions. He's not in Verstappens class in that category, nor Hamilton.

However over 1 lap qualifying, he could end up being something really special. I actually believe he's the fastest driver already on a Saturday. Will be interesting this season, in a better car his qualifying form could be spectacular.

The race day mistakes must be ironed out. That's the next step of evolution he must take.

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#20 ARTGP

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 08:12

Random musings, but if Ferrari have improved the car at all, even if they are still no match for Merc and RB, Charles already nearly took pole in atleast 1 round in 2020 lol. I’m willing to bet Ferrari take a pole this season (not on merit of the car, but on Leclerc putting in a lap from another world as toto might say)

Edited by ARTGP, 27 February 2021 - 08:13.


#21 TheAviator

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 08:17

Random musings, but if Ferrari have improved the car at all, even if they are still no match for Merc and RB, Charles already nearly took pole in atleast 1 round in 2020 lol. I’m willing to bet Ferrari take a pole this season (not on merit of the car, but on Leclerc putting in a lap from another world as toto might say)

Leclerc with 15hp more would have taken Portimao pole as well lol

#22 ARTGP

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 08:37

Leclerc with 15hp more would have taken Portimao pole as well lol


That would really have embarrassed quite a few drivers if Charles in that apple cart grabbed pole lol. He sunk like a boat anchor in the race. Had no business starting where he did. That qualy lap was godlike lol.

#23 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 08:47

Random musings, but if Ferrari have improved the car at all, even if they are still no match for Merc and RB, Charles already nearly took pole in atleast 1 round in 2020 lol.

Let's put it this way... Leclerc qualified I think twice alongside Verstappen.

Let that sink in lol.

#24 Lights

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 09:01

I think his wet driving is a weakness. In mixed conditions he actually can be rapid (Turkey) but he hasn't impressed in full wet conditions. He's not in Verstappens class in that category, nor Hamilton.

However over 1 lap qualifying, he could end up being something really special. I actually believe he's the fastest driver already on a Saturday. Will be interesting this season, in a better car his qualifying form could be spectacular.

The race day mistakes must be ironed out. That's the next step of evolution he must take.

 

That reminds me of Button. Funnily enough that's also where the similarities end between those two.

 

Good news for Leclerc however is that full wet conditions are quite rare, and when they do happen they do not always have to decide the outcome either because it's often red flagged.

 

I'd say being strong in mixed conditions is generally more valuable. And his middle stint in Turkey was a great showcase for that indeed.



#25 ferrarista

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 12:57

Let’s remember the Ferrari car is generally weak in wet conditions, so I would be very cautious in the assessment of the wet capabilities of Ferrari drivers.

#26 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 13:16

Did Ferrari not have a ‘team launch’ yesterday?

Bit of a damp squib

#27 Calum

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 13:37

Didn't really know what to expect from a 'team launch' but says a lot when there's hardly a reaction on this site.



#28 CrossComparisonOracle

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 17:59

Let’s remember the Ferrari car is generally weak in wet conditions, so I would be very cautious in the assessment of the wet capabilities of Ferrari drivers.

He outqualified by Vettel in both Styria and Turkey, so it’s not just the car.

His problem is full wet conditions moreso than intermediate conditions. He was faster than Vettel once the track switched to intermediates in Turkey, and he was also faster than Vettel on intermediates at Germany 2019.

#29 TheAviator

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 18:30

He outqualified by Vettel in both Styria and Turkey, so it’s not just the car.

His problem is full wet conditions moreso than intermediate conditions. He was faster than Vettel once the track switched to intermediates in Turkey, and he was also faster than Vettel on intermediates at Germany 2019.

I have to find a quote about his wet driving but I read he is driving too agressive in wet and he loses more time on snaps and mistakes then he gains by driving more aggressive. For example neither Max nor Hamilton drive aggressive in wet, they are more calculated and searching for good lines instead of being on the nose aggressive.

He was extremely quick in Turkey last year in wet/damp conditions, he made up like 45 sec on Seb and passed him on track before he got on intermidiets.

Edited by TheAviator, 27 February 2021 - 18:31.


#30 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 21:50

I have to find a quote about his wet driving but I read he is driving too agressive in wet and he loses more time on snaps and mistakes then he gains by driving more aggressive. For example neither Max nor Hamilton drive aggressive in wet, they are more calculated and searching for good lines instead of being on the nose aggressive.

In the end though that's on Charles. Max and Lewis adapt better and, more importantly, adapt instantly to such conditions. It just doesn't seem that Charles has the same feel on a full wet track. In the two wet qualy sessions last year Seb smacked him. That's the reality.

Still it isn't a massive deal. If Leclerc can be brilliant in most areas and that's his only weakness, you'll take that. Imo wet weather ability is slightly overrated in the big picture. Senna at Portugal 1985/Donington 1993, Schumacher at Barcelona 1996 etc is all spectacular and sexy... but they didn't dominate every single wet/mixed conditions race they ever contested. Performance in such circumstances does tend to rely on set-up and other factors almost as much.

There have been plenty of drivers in history who I thought wouldn't be any good in the wet... yet they won wet races (and dominated some). While there has been drivers I thought would be spectacular in the wet (big balls, great car control, very brave in the dry...) but actually weren't.

It's a strange sport sometimes.

#31 TheAviator

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 22:02

In the end though that's on Charles. Max and Lewis adapt better and, more importantly, adapt instantly to such conditions. It just doesn't seem that Charles has the same feel on a full wet track. In the two wet qualy sessions last year Seb smacked him. That's the reality.

Still it isn't a massive deal. If Leclerc can be brilliant in most areas and that's his only weakness, you'll take that. Imo wet weather ability is slightly overrated in the big picture. Senna at Portugal 1985/Donington 1993, Schumacher at Barcelona 1996 etc is all spectacular and sexy... but they didn't dominate every single wet/mixed conditions race they ever contested. Performance in such circumstances does tend to rely on set-up and other factors almost as much.

There have been plenty of drivers in history who I thought wouldn't be any good in the wet... yet they won wet races (and dominated some). While there has been drivers I thought would be spectacular in the wet (big balls, great car control, very brave in the dry...) but actually weren't.

It's a strange sport sometimes.

Vettel did smack him in Turkey, but in Austria it was few hundredts or something like that. But I agree, that is definitely on him, its a bit weird because he used to be great in lower formulas in wet.

#32 RPM40

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 22:03

I'm not going to write off his wet ability just yet, at times he has appeared rapid and he hasn't had cars with class leading downforce at any point in his career. 

 

At Turkey his performance relative to Seb was ridiculous considering Seb is considered quite a strong wet weather driver too.



#33 RPM40

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 22:03

Vettel did smack him in Turkey, but in Austria it was few hundredts or something like that. But I agree, that is definitely on him, its a bit weird because he used to be great in lower formulas in wet.

Seems more just quali, in the race he was far stronger than Vettel at Turkey. To the tune of a second or more per lap.



#34 Astandahl

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 22:47

In the end though that's on Charles. Max and Lewis adapt better and, more importantly, adapt instantly to such conditions. It just doesn't seem that Charles has the same feel on a full wet track. In the two wet qualy sessions last year Seb smacked him. That's the reality.

Still it isn't a massive deal. If Leclerc can be brilliant in most areas and that's his only weakness, you'll take that. Imo wet weather ability is slightly overrated in the big picture. Senna at Portugal 1985/Donington 1993, Schumacher at Barcelona 1996 etc is all spectacular and sexy... but they didn't dominate every single wet/mixed conditions race they ever contested. Performance in such circumstances does tend to rely on set-up and other factors almost as much.

There have been plenty of drivers in history who I thought wouldn't be any good in the wet... yet they won wet races (and dominated some). While there has been drivers I thought would be spectacular in the wet (big balls, great car control, very brave in the dry...) but actually weren't.

It's a strange sport sometimes.

Vettel smacked him only in Turkey. In Austria he was ahead by a very small margin.

 

I think Leclerc weak area is that he is still not capable of understanding when to push and where to be a bit more conservative.



#35 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 22:51

Vettel smacked him only in Turkey. In Austria he was ahead by a very small margin

Ok point taken. TheAviator mentioned that too and it's correct.

But given Vettel basically didn't get near Leclerc anywhere else all season, it's a significant outlier.

#36 Astandahl

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 23:01

Ok point taken. TheAviator mentioned that too and it's correct.

But given Vettel basically didn't get near Leclerc anywhere else all season, it's a significant outlier.

For sure. I think Leclerc has been able to deal with a very unstable rear end while Seb clearly couldn't in 2020.

If you watch Leclerc on board of the quali lap he tried to be aggressive as usual, but the car wasn't "following" him for whatever reasons (tyre temp, wrong setup we don't really know). Seb with his experience approached the lap in a complete different way knowing the car was absolutely awful and managed to find more time.

 

This is also supported by the fact that both in Germany 2019 and Turkey 2020 Leclerc showed great pace in the race in difficult conditions.


Edited by Astandahl, 27 February 2021 - 23:03.


#37 CrossComparisonOracle

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Posted 28 February 2021 - 00:01

But given Vettel basically didn't get near Leclerc anywhere else all season, it's a significant outlier.

Isn’t that exactly what happened in 2014 too? Ricciardo was clear in the dry, but when it rained, Vettel often turned the tables on him. The skills required to be fast in the wet are often quite different from in the dry.

Anyway, Leclerc seems to have a problem with the Pirelli full wet tyres specifically. As soon as he switches to inters he comes alive.

Random theory: Charles is sensitive to standing water. He can be very fast on a slippery circuit as long as it’s not covered in puddles.

#38 TheAviator

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Posted 28 February 2021 - 00:10

Isn’t that exactly what happened in 2014 too? Ricciardo was clear in the dry, but when it rained, Vettel often turned the tables on him. The skills required to be fast in the wet are often quite different from in the dry.

Anyway, Leclerc seems to have a problem with the Pirelli full wet tyres specifically. As soon as he switches to inters he comes alive.

Random theory: Charles is sensitive to standing water. He can be very fast on a slippery circuit as long as it’s not covered in puddles.

He needs to fix it because it is his only chink in armor. What is weird is that he was always fast in wet in junior formulas and generally in races he had clear upper hand over Seb, even in full wet (Germany/Turkey), but its quali wet he had issues with especially in Ferrari.

#39 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 28 February 2021 - 00:18

Isn’t that exactly what happened in 2014 too? Ricciardo was clear in the dry, but when it rained, Vettel often turned the tables on him. The skills required to be fast in the wet are often quite different from in the dry.

I can't remember exactly what happened with Vettel and Ricciardo in wet conditions specifically in 2014. But they were actually close overall in qualifying, which is very different to Leclerc and Vettel 2020. It was in the races where Vettel was at sea and Ricciardo way ahead.

Whereas last year literally the only place in the dry Seb outperformed Charles in qualy was Hungary. Otherwise it was Leclerc by a mile... unless it was wet.

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#40 CrossComparisonOracle

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Posted 28 February 2021 - 06:45

Leclerc with 15hp more would have taken Portimao pole as well lol

It’s a shame that we didn’t have a Monaco GP in 2020. I would love to see what Leclerc could have done in qualifying around there.

#41 prty

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Posted 28 February 2021 - 07:41

Did Ferrari not have a ‘team launch’ yesterday?

Bit of a damp squib


Well if you do a normal launch but then present a car with last year parts or photoshopped parts, so that rivals can't see the real one, that's pretty much just a team launch too. Ferrari were just more explicit about it.

#42 FLB

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Posted 28 February 2021 - 23:03

Sainz apparently went off testing the 2022 tires?

 

https://www.formulap...erc-551981.html (in italiano).