94 replies to this topic

[BRK]

On track - 

 

[RA2]

I did not follow racing point last year, but does it look like they are running more rake (28 sec) on that car?

 

Also towards the end (52-53 sec) as the car goes into (or exiting) a right there looks to be a massive roll on to the left rear, looked quiet odd considering that could mess the aero.

Edited by RA2, 05 March 2021 - 05:15.

[CrossComparisonOracle]

To be honest, I still think that Vettel in a car with good rear downforce is one of the better drivers on the grid.

His record in 2020 is absolutely shocking but it was not helped by the fact that several of Vettel’s stronger circuits were axed from the calendar

Albert Park, Montreal, Suzuka, Singapore, Interlagos...

On another note, Vettel was abysmally slow around the newer circuits of 2020 which does worryingly suggest a serious lack of adaptability.

Edited by CrossComparisonOracle, 05 March 2021 - 06:02.

[HP]

Will Aston Martin be allowed to race Mercedes if they end up on the same piece of tarmac, or will we see more occurrences like Monaco 2018?

FiA has rules in places that should make all engines from a manufacturer equal. Mercedes as the designer and builder has obviously more insights than the customer teams have.

[HP]

To be honest, I still think that Vettel in a car with good rear downforce is one of the better drivers on the grid.

His record in 2020 is absolutely shocking but it was not helped by the fact that several of Vettel’s stronger circuits were axed from the calendar

Albert Park, Montreal, Suzuka, Singapore, Interlagos...

On another note, Vettel was abysmally slow around the newer circuits of 2020 which does worryingly suggest a serious lack of adaptability.

Or loss of confidence in the car.
 

I just hope this car and team is better to his liking.

Edited by HP, 05 March 2021 - 06:54.

[Gambelli]

I think Vettel will be a beast this year, I really do

[thegamer23]

[chhatra]

Hate to say it but it looks quick. If they improve their strategy/operations and have less driver errors, I can see them fighting for second with RB(and hopefully McLaren and Ferrari too).

[Pimpwerx]

That's a fine looking car. I wish Seb and the team all the best. I'll be rooting for them once again. 

[Goron3]

I think Vettel will be a beast this year, I really do

Same. 

 

Aston are in a great position this year. The rear end upgrade is going to be massive, and the fact that they are getting it for free means they can spend tokens elsewhere. They can aim for top six at every race.

[CrossComparisonOracle]

FiA has rules in places that should make all engines from a manufacturer equal. Mercedes as the designer and builder has obviously more insights than the customer teams have.

I’m not worried about the engines being equal.

The important question is: what if Aston Martin is ahead of Mercedes in a race, will we see inter-teamorders?

I’m also fascinated to see how Vettel would react to being told that he has to let a Mercedes through for position.

Do people here really think that Aston Martin can just copy the Mercedes car with no strings attached? Come on, there will obviously be clauses.

[baddog]

I’m not worried about the engines being equal.

The important question is: what if Aston Martin is ahead of Mercedes in a race, will we see inter-teamorders?
 

No, given the current way things run then generally no.

 

IF it was a championship decider? Maybe. A Merc powered team are unlikely to give the championship to RB or Ferrari at the pinch.. such situations are thankfully rare though.

[PlayboyRacer]

I think Vettel will be a beast this year, I really do

It's pretty simple. If he sorts out his wheel to wheel combat and keeps it pointing in the right direction then I agree. The speed is still there and Turkey last year showed his intelligence in tricky conditions. Hopefully increased confidence with the car will sort out the two concerns with his driving.

[baddog]

Belongs in team thread, but Im not making any predictions! Either he has lost it for good, or it was situational and a 'patch' and he will be back on form. 

 

Fun change to have him in this car and see what happens anyway.

[MasterOfCoin]

No, given the current way things run then generally no.

 

IF it was a championship decider? Maybe. A Merc powered team are unlikely to give the championship to RB or Ferrari at the pinch.. such situations are thankfully rare though.

We also didn't see anything of the sort at Bahrain 2 and Turkey either.....

[BRK]

Re: the copycat saga, I think teams are free to lodge a protest at the 1st race weekend in Bahrain, in case testing sets off alarm bells ringing for one or two teams. I don't personally think that will happen unless the Astons find themselves fighting at the sharp end of the grid, but who knows.   

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

It remains to be seen on track but the car looks so mature and ready.

But in my opinion AstonMartin really need capable drivers to fully exploit the car performance.

[danmills]

There is something in the air about these guys a la Red Bull when they immediately bought into Jaguar and invested straight away as serious contenders. It took them some years, but I get the feeling it won't be as long before Aston are one of the top runners. RP already punched above their weight. With the extra funding and expertise they might suddenly find with a few extra top tier designers and engineers they could be a real powerhouse.

 

How long before they make an offer to Adrian? 

[r4mses]

Why would they want to pay a gazillion to one guy -- from the last decade, who imho, by now is way over rated -- when there is a budget cap in sight as well as the possibility to get more young engineers for the same ££?

Edited by r4mses, 07 March 2021 - 17:46.

[Gambelli]

Why would they want to pay a gazillion to one guy -- from the last decade, who imho, by now is way over rated -- when there is a budget cap in sight as well as the possibility to get more young engineers for the same ££?

 

From my understanding drivers and 'some' senior staff are exempt from the budget cap.

 

Presumably, for instance, Mercedes could pay James Allison $100 million per year.  I'm not sure what stops James then setting up his own personal company with 100 employees to carry out consultancy work for him that would ultimately aid Mercedes....

[FirstnameLastname]

From my understanding drivers and 'some' senior staff are exempt from the budget cap.

Presumably, for instance, Mercedes could pay James Allison $100 million per year. I'm not sure what stops James then setting up his own personal company with 100 employees to carry out consultancy work for him that would ultimately aid Mercedes....

It’ll be interesting to see if Redbull engines is a way for Redbull to spend a load of dosh away from the Redbull racing accountants.

What if Adrian Neweys wife designs an amazing front wing and then sells it to Redbull for £1?

[ARTGP]

 

 

 

It's interesting that both teams end up with similar lasagna floor.

[BRK]

Indeed. The floor ripple was present during the presentation, though the (quietly introduced) test-spec floor has a lot more of them now - 

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Small RW updates for the test - 

 

Spoiler

 

[BRK]

The AMR21 diffuser variants being tested - 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Source: F1Technical

 

Clearly not the McLaren version yet with the strakes closer to the ground, but hopefully able to claw back a tiny amount of downforce with this + the rippled floor. 

[PayasYouRace]

 

 

 

 

 

It's interesting that both teams end up with similar lasagna floor.

The laws of physics are the same for everyone.

[ARTGP]

The laws of physics are the same for everyone.

Always classy..../s

Anyway, there are 8 other teams with no pasta floor. And the two teams sharing the windtunnel and much of the car show up with the pasta floor. The point I was getting at is Mercedes had to downsize (some of the Engine people went to Renault) and Aston Martin hired a lot of new staff for their aero department over the winter. It seems somewhat obvious some of the Mercedes aero folk transferred to Aston Martin seeing as Brackley headquarters and the Aston Martin facility in Silverstone circuit is less than 20 minutes apart. And those folk would literally walk right back into the same windtunnel working at Aston.

Edited by ARTGP, 14 March 2021 - 11:23.

[chhatra]

The Enigma of 2021 so far.

Sneaky feeling they are sandbagging hard to avoid the news headlines.

[BRK]

I don't know. Those onboards and the trackside shots aren't particularly confidence inspiring. But let's see.

Edited by BRK, 14 March 2021 - 13:28.

[charly0418]

I don't know. Those onboards and the trackside shots aren't particularly confidence inspiring. But let's see.

It looks far worse that last years car. Not looking good for AM, can’t even get laps in

[ARTGP]

I don't know. Those onboards and the trackside shots aren't particularly confidence inspiring. But let's see.

 

Lance has a habit of missing apexes and let's face it, Perez was faster than him in the dry.  Seb hasn't had enough running.

 

Way too early to count Aston out.  But the lack of running is absolutely not ideal.

Edited by ARTGP, 14 March 2021 - 15:23.

[FLB]

But the lack of running is absolutely not ideal.

That's the biggest problem, IMHO.

 

 

[Miles749]

What was the issue that held back Vettel from running today?

[BRK]

Loss of boost pressure.

[balage06]

Tbh I wouldn't mind if they had a difficult first year as AMR. It would be a great lesson for Mr. Stroll at least, he can't just buy his way into success in F1. But on the other hand, I don't expect them to be nowhere near that weak as they appeared during the past weekend.

[eREr]

Tbh I wouldn't mind if they had a difficult first year as AMR. It would be a great lesson for Mr. Stroll at least, he can't just buy his way into success in F1. But on the other hand, I don't expect them to be nowhere near that weak as they appeared during the past weekend.

 

We need variable rules year by year. Then these copy/paste teams will have no chance to simply buy/copy parts. They will have to design own ones. But still this cooperation with Merc is to much, it was/is till not a simple copy/pasting by some photos. It is much more than that.

 

I would bet their '22 cars will be very similar ones while AM won't be able buy half of their car from Merc.

[shure]

Tbh I wouldn't mind if they had a difficult first year as AMR. It would be a great lesson for Mr. Stroll at least, he can't just buy his way into success in F1. But on the other hand, I don't expect them to be nowhere near that weak as they appeared during the past weekend.

Why not?  Everybody else does it.  You think Merc would have had the success they have with Williams' budget?

[ARTGP]

We need variable rules year by year. Then these copy/paste teams will have no chance to simply buy/copy parts. They will have to design own ones. But still this cooperation with Merc is to much, it was/is till not a simple copy/pasting by some photos. It is much more than that.

 

I would bet their '22 cars will be very similar ones while AM won't be able buy half of their car from Merc.

 

I wouldn't be shocked to see similarities between the Aston Martin and the Mercedes in 2022.  Mercedes has to downsize under the cost cap. Some staff went to Aston Martin already. More will go as Mercedes downsizes. Aston Martin was on a hiring frenzy this winter

Edited by ARTGP, 16 March 2021 - 03:32.

[RA2]

I wouldn't be shocked to see similarities between the Aston Martin and the Mercedes in 2022.  Mercedes has to downsize under the cost cap. Some staff went to Aston Martin already. More will go as Mercedes downsizes. Aston Martin was on a hiring frenzy this winter

 

Are they working out of Brackley office of Mercedes?

[ARTGP]

Are they working out of Brackley office of Mercedes?

 

The Aston design office is at Silverstone circuit which is only about 15 mins away from Merc HQ. But the wind tunnel is at Merc HQ 

Edited by ARTGP, 16 March 2021 - 08:06.

[taran]

It’ll be interesting to see if Redbull engines is a way for Redbull to spend a load of dosh away from the Redbull racing accountants.

What if Adrian Neweys wife designs an amazing front wing and then sells it to Redbull for £1?

 

In case you were serious......the FIA assigns a nominal value to everything when checking the books. Even if RB bought a front wing design for $1, they would still have to deduct $1m (or whatever the nominal R&D value of a front wing is) from their budget....

[BRK]

Some shots of the car from Bahrain (courtesy @f1debrief, Albert Fabrega, Motosport.com, F1 Technical) -

 

Spoiler

  

 

 

Edited by BRK, 26 March 2021 - 09:47.

[RA2]

Kept hearing a lot from commentators that the AMR was set up very stiff. Was also mentioned by Otmar that their car was historically run that way.

 

Even though they use the Merc aero concept and their suspension in full, is there a difference in the way the two teams run? Does Merc run stiff? Isn't running stiff something from the past pre FRIC and so on?

[Rodaknee]

Otmar Szafnauer continues to believe AM have a case over the rules change that has seen their car drop down the results.

 

https://www.pitpass....-rules-revision

 

I believe they need forget this year and get working on copying next year's car...

[Mat13]

That article suggests that he has finally given up to be fair, although he’ll probably still be whining about it at the end of the season. Cry me a river...

[SparkPlug86]

Szafnauer will probably get the boot at the end of the season.