160 replies to this topic

[Branislav]

Toyota, Alpine, Peugeot, Audi, Porsche and now Ferrari. Plus Honda and GM from IMSA whose cars will be eligibilite to race at 24h Le Mans (and WEC). That's 8 car makers. BOOM! WEC>F1

Edited by Branislav, 25 February 2021 - 10:38.

[Marklar]

Do you want to see Mercedes in hypercar class?
Yes
No
BMW better

Why not both?

as for the topic title: typical overreaction. F1 will always be the number 1 series no matter how bad the product/participations or how good others are

[Ben1445]

Mamma mia, here we go again 

[Branislav]

Why not both?

 

Because. It's a test

[PayasYouRace]

That third question is hilarious.

[Branislav]

That third question is hilarious.

Maybe when they conquer FE jump ship here

[Ross Stonefeld]

There's 8 different brands in BTCC so...

Edited by Ross Stonefeld, 24 February 2021 - 17:08.

[Branislav]

There's 8 different brands in BTCC so...

But only three of them manufacturers

 

http://www.btcc.net/...s-constructors/

Edited by Branislav, 24 February 2021 - 17:22.

[PayasYouRace]

Well there’s only 3 in NASCAR so I guess that settles that.

[Ross Stonefeld]

They have entries from BMW, Toyota, Honda, Infiniti, Seat, Ford, Vauxhall, and Hyundai. GT3 probably has even more than that. They're nice solid enjoyable series but hardly anything F1 is going to notice over their shoulder. 

[Branislav]

Well there’s only 3 in NASCAR so I guess that settles that.

Who mentioned Nascar? What about Nascar?

[Burai]

With so many manufacturers, operating in multiple classes and with BOP, what could possibly go wrong?

[PayasYouRace]

Who mentioned Nascar? What about Nascar?

Just following the logic of the OP.

[Muppetmad]

This thread is, at best, two years premature. WEC with Audi, Porsche and Toyota was fantastic - and that's only three teams. You can have a million manufacturers, but if it doesn't produce good racing, it doesn't mean anything - and that's before we get into the far more complicated issue of the sustainability of a given formula.

[Branislav]

Just following the logic of the OP.

Annnnnd? I didn't say Nascar is worldwide best

[Stephane]

Well, as they say ; Been there, done that.    Life cycle of motorsport revolving as always.

[404KF2]

Should be good, and for me this sort of racing has always been superior to F1, ever since attending my first such race at Francorchamps in May 1970.

[68targa]

Having been lucky enough to witness the 917 era and then 956/962s I feel we could be on the verge of another golden era. Come 2023 with a wide variety of entrants maybe we will see a lot of different winners.  Can't compare WEC with F1 as completely different disciplines. Personally I enjoy both.

[Risil]

It's great that the WEC has found a new niche after the old hybrid regulations which were essentially "F1+" caused the top class to collapse.

 

But my understanding is that the LMDh class is much closer to Indycar than F1 in budgets, and on that basis they probably won't get close to the LMD class that Toyota, Peugeot and Ferrari will contest.

 

Still if all those manufacturers show up at Le Mans at the same time, it could be a great event if only for all the concentrated marketing and fan interest. You could spend 24 hours just walking around all the marquees.

[Victor_RO]

With so many manufacturers, operating in multiple classes and with BOP, what could possibly go wrong?

 

Three characters: G. T. 3. The cars have evolved, but the base concept of the class is 15 years old and still going.

[Calum]

It’s cool to follow WEC (ie dip in and out of the 24 when it’s on and follow the race reports and championship) but hard to watch just as a nature of its race formats.

Always say they should encourage variety over their fairly standard 6hr races.


Keep the season “total racing hours” the same but tweak: Make one of the races longer (for the endurance element) and cut a couple right back to shorter 2-3hr sprints (for more palatable tv coverage).

[Risil]

I think that's what they're doing now Calum! You could be forgiven for missing it though as WEC is not the most red-hot competitive series currently.

 

As for me, I'll follow Le Mans like you do and try to go to a British round if we get one. I think endurance racing is better to experience in person than on TV.

[Disgrace]

With so many manufacturers, operating in multiple classes and with BOP, what could possibly go wrong?

 

Just add explosive barrels.

[Burai]

Three characters: G. T. 3. The cars have evolved, but the base concept of the class is 15 years old and still going.

On a vastly lower budget and with a vast customer network in mind.

[juicy sushi]

Just add explosive barrels.

And red shells. It’s all about the red shells.

[PayasYouRace]

In all seriousness, I'd expect only half of them to still be there after two years. Most series can't sustain that many manufacturers for very long. They tend to stabilise at about three.

[noikeee]

In all seriousness, I'd expect only half of them to still be there after two years. Most series can't sustain that many manufacturers for very long. They tend to stabilise at about three.

Yeah once a manufacturer has been losing races for a little too long, or at least doesn't seem to be in contention for winning races, typically they don't last long in a series.

And if you have 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 of them.. Someone's going to lose.

[juicy sushi]

Which is why I think a lot of series/regulatory consolidation needs to happen. It is a bit of heresy, but I think the racing world would be massively better if WEC, IMSA, and Super GT all ran these rules, and Indycar adopted LMDh as well. The opportunities for wins would increase, as would the sustainability. Plus the idea of 33 LMPs going at it into Turn One at Indy appeals to me for all the wrong reasons.

[Ross Stonefeld]

In all seriousness, I'd expect only half of them to still be there after two years. Most series can't sustain that many manufacturers for very long. They tend to stabilise at about three.

 

Yeah someone is going to be last of the mfg entries and who it is will affect how things go. I can see Acura/Honda sticking at it because they're proper motorsport nerds but if Peugeot is just making up the numbers at Le Mans how long do they keep at it? Or if they win, how long do they stay.

[Fastcake]

Will it be as short as LMP1? That was so obviously doomed, particularly when two of the top class entries came from the same company.

I really don't want the new classes to implode too quickly, but the cycle of boom and bust has been happening since the dawn of motorsport. It will never supplant F1 for the same reason any other sports car class didn’t - it’s totally reliant on manufacturers who disappear as soon as a championship picks up momentum. Plus, it’s too long. No one is watching a six hour race apart from us.

[PayasYouRace]

Will it be as short as LMP1? That was so obviously doomed, particularly when two of the top class entries came from the same company.

I really don't want the new classes to implode too quickly, but the cycle of boom and bust has been happening since the dawn of motorsport. It will never supplant F1 for the same reason any other sports car class didn’t - it’s totally reliant on manufacturers who disappear as soon as a championship picks up momentum. Plus, it’s too long. No one is watching a six hour race apart from us.

 

I've long been a proponent of dropping the "Endurance" aspect and replacing it with "Sportscar". Have a few classic enduros, including Le Mans, but have plenty of "movie length" races that the typical fan will be more likely to sit and watch and get invested in.

[Myrvold]

I've long been a proponent of dropping the "Endurance" aspect and replacing it with "Sportscar". Have a few classic enduros, including Le Mans, but have plenty of "movie length" races that the typical fan will be more likely to sit and watch and get invested in.

 

So, late 80's redux? 2 drivers in the car, and get a double event at Norisring with driver 1 in race 1 and driver 2 in race 2. Then combine the laps raced and you have a final result!

[Cornholio]

I've long been a proponent of dropping the "Endurance" aspect and replacing it with "Sportscar". Have a few classic enduros, including Le Mans, but have plenty of "movie length" races that the typical fan will be more likely to sit and watch and get invested in.

 

WEC seems to have improved in recent years on the length diversity just a touch, it was my one criticism of the series during it's peak, when it was basically LM + all six hours. I'd be all for including F1-length sprint races, right up to at least one other 24 hour race alongside Le Mans (in the same way IndyCar and NASCAR have other 500 milers outside of their respective big ones), and everything in between.

[Branislav]

[Seanspeed]

Even in a hardcore motorsport forum, most people dont have interest in WEC. 

 

I think that says all we need to know.  

[ARTGP]

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is. Your #1 may be different to my #1.

 

If you are going to ask, will WEC overtake F1 in the TV ratings, well no, atleast not yet if ever....

Edited by ARTGP, 24 February 2021 - 21:55.

[P123]

The poll questions don't relate to that posed by the topic title.

 

As for the 'best', I recall the misplaced hype about the WEC already.  But it does look like they may have a promising field once again.  And it all comes down to personal choice.  Clio Cup had better racing.

[Anderis]

as for the topic title: typical overreaction. F1 will always be the number 1 series no matter how bad the product/participations or how good others are

For the foreseeable future perhaps you're right, but I find this statement a bit too definitive overall. Things can change beyond human imagination in relatively short periods of time. 

[jonpollak]

Just following the logic of the OP.

Logic?
Now that’s a stretch.
Jp

[pdac]

Because. It's a test

 

If you genuinely want to find people's opinions, then you have to phrase your questions correctly. Either ask the question "Do you want to see Mercedes in hypercar class?", which is a yes/no question (possibly with a "don't know/don't care" option) or else ask the multiple response question "Which other manufacturers would you like to see?" and include "Mercedes" and BMW" as answers (where neither, either or both can be selected)

[YoungGun]

I have caught the odd going around in circles race here but have never come across a WEC race.  Who carries WEC in NA?

Edited by YoungGun, 24 February 2021 - 22:57.

[ArnageWRC]

I've long been a proponent of dropping the "Endurance" aspect and replacing it with "Sportscar". Have a few classic enduros, including Le Mans, but have plenty of "movie length" races that the typical fan will be more likely to sit and watch and get invested in.

 

Same here. I always thought they needed to mix it up more. 2 or 3 rounds before LM24, with maybe one 3 hour/500km race. Then post LM24 another short race, maybe 2-3 weeks later. Then a few 6 hour races and the enduro races.

[ARTGP]

For the foreseeable future perhaps you're right, but I find this statement a bit too definitive overall. Things can change beyond human imagination in relatively short periods of time. 

 

This applies to everything but F1 in my view.  All of the other series come and go in popularity (WRC, WEC/LM, IMSA, Bikes, etc) depending on how competitive things are.  But F1 always sits above no matter how poor the show us.

[Izzyeviel]

Will it be as short as LMP1? That was so obviously doomed, particularly when two of the top class entries came from the same company.

I really don't want the new classes to implode too quickly, but the cycle of boom and bust has been happening since the dawn of motorsport. It will never supplant F1 for the same reason any other sports car class didn’t - it’s totally reliant on manufacturers who disappear as soon as a championship picks up momentum. Plus, it’s too long. No one is watching a six hour race apart from us.

 A WEC race is only about 10 minutes longer than your average superbowl game...

 

people will watch if its presented as a big deal and is fun, interesting, exciting... and if not the live show, they'll tune in for highlights.

[JHSingo]

I've long been a proponent of dropping the "Endurance" aspect and replacing it with "Sportscar". Have a few classic enduros, including Le Mans, but have plenty of "movie length" races that the typical fan will be more likely to sit and watch and get invested in.

 

This is generally why I prefer IMSA (and before that, ALMS) to WEC. IMSA (infuriating length of caution periods aside) is pretty perfect in terms of both the diversity of tracks it races at, and race distances. You've got the longer blue riband 24, 10 and 12 hour races mixed in with a few shorter ones as well. They're more appealing than 1000kms or 6 hours of some insipid Tilke-drome, anyway.  

[Ben1445]

This applies to everything but F1 in my view.  All of the other series come and go in popularity (WRC, WEC/LM, IMSA, Bikes, etc) depending on how competitive things are.  But F1 always sits above no matter how poor the show us.

From my point of view, I just believe there's a non-zero chance that this could change at some point down the road. I know there's a certain amount of hyperbole involved when people say 'never' in this context, but still, I guess never hurts to ground ourselves in some reality. 

[Ben1445]

This is generally why I prefer IMSA (and before that, ALMS) to WEC. IMSA (infuriating length of caution periods aside) is pretty perfect in terms of both the diversity of tracks it races at, and race distances. You've got the longer blue riband 24, 10 and 12 hour races mixed in with a few shorter ones as well. They're more appealing than 1000kms or 6 hours of some insipid Tilke-drome, anyway.  

This has definitely been one of my WEC gripes in that the venues outside of Le Mans have tended to be fairly uninspiring and...unoriginal. Sort of like it leaves world championship level sportscar racing lacking it's own flavour. 

 

If they went to just a handful of more unique venues or even used some unique extended layouts of the popular tracks I think that would elevate the WEC to something that little bit more special.

 

Also yeah, all that stuff about World Sportsar Championships and variety of race lengths too   

[noriaki]

This applies to everything but F1 in my view. All of the other series come and go in popularity (WRC, WEC/LM, IMSA, Bikes, etc) depending on how competitive things are. But F1 always sits above no matter how poor the show us.

F1 has three big things appealing to the masses and preserving its popularity as the #1 motorsport regardless of how the show is. The fastest cars in motorsport, the biggest name drivers in motorsport and Ferrari.

It could even deal with losing any one of those elements to another series. But if something in the future means that it loses two or three of those elements - like the case could have been in 2010 - then the name "F1" alone would neversave the sport's status as #1.

[Dolph]

Toyota, Alpine, Peugeot, Audi, Porsche and now Ferrari. Plus Honda and GM from IMSA whose cars will be eligibilite to race at 24h Le Mans (and WEC). That's 8 car makers. BOOM! WEC>F1

 

Nope

[Anuity]

From my experience so many people around me have at least heard of about F1. Maybe some don’t like it? Others don’t enjoy, but a lot of these people have heard about F1 and from different countries as well.
WEC? Very few outside of Motorsport fans know what that even is.
F1 has a long history brand, it can be associated with names like Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton, etc.
Not to mention teams: Ferrari, Mclaren, Williams, now even Mercedes and Res Bull.

I remember walking in cities in Europe and seeing posters with announcements “f1 race today Alonso.vs.hamilton”. I don’t think WEC just has this general kind of appeal.
I personally have been following f1 since 1993 and I’d rather follow indycar than WEC.

Edited by Anuity, 25 February 2021 - 00:17.