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Pre-war ex-Singer gearbox to identify


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#1 Peter Morley

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 11:13

A relative has this gearbox.

It was attached to a Singer engine, with the modified bellhousing, but he has no idea what the box is from, does anyone recognise it?

 

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IMG-8549.jpg
 
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#2 Bloggsworth

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 17:13

The patent number might be a clue.



#3 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 February 2021 - 00:19

'BIL'?

 

Any idea what that might mean?



#4 PJGD

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Posted 26 February 2021 - 02:12

What is the patent number anyway?  It looks like it is 406085 which, if it is a UK patent, dates it to circa 1932 (but that number is nothing to do with a gearbox, so that is not it).

 

It would be worth checking to see whether the screw threads are BSF/BSW, metric, or UNF/UNC which might give a further clue.



#5 just me again

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Posted 26 February 2021 - 08:46

'BIL'?

Any idea what that might mean?


Think Bil is Car in all Scandinavian countrys. So if BIL has that meaning. it could be a Volvo!!
I also think they both made Trucks and cars before ww2.

#6 Allan Lupton

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Posted 26 February 2021 - 09:28

From experience of vehicle parts of similar age I'd say that a cast-in number is more likely to be a part number/drawing number than a patent and the "BIL" could be the foundry's or pattern-maker's mark.



#7 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 February 2021 - 10:32

Foundry is what I would have thought...

 

So is it a known mark?



#8 Cirrus

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Posted 26 February 2021 - 13:52

Could be patent 405095?

 

https://patents.goog...5A/en?oq=405095



#9 Bloggsworth

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Posted 26 February 2021 - 14:51

Could be patent 405095?

 

https://patents.goog...5A/en?oq=405095

None of those funny, annotated, isometric drawings that usually seem to accompany a patent- well they did on mine and very confusing I found them "Did I really design that?"



#10 Peter Morley

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 12:40

From experience of vehicle parts of similar age I'd say that a cast-in number is more likely to be a part number/drawing number than a patent and the "BIL" could be the foundry's or pattern-maker's mark.

 

I was wondering about a foundry mark, but was thinking it might be unusual to have the same people doing aluminium and cast iron, and failed o find a foundry with such initials.

 

Did think about the connection between BIL & car in Scandinavia but failed to find anything similar saying BIL on it.

 

I'll see if they can confirm the patent number - looks like it might not be that clear on the casting either.

 

Thanks for the input so far, will try to fill in some gaps....



#11 Garsted

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 19:45

None of those funny, annotated, isometric drawings that usually seem to accompany a patent- well they did on mine and very confusing I found them "Did I really design that?"

If you follow the link to Espacenet provided  in  Cirrus' linked site there are drawings, although externally they do not look much like the photographs.

The patented feature(s) may be internal, and of course Alvis (if it is their design) could have  applied the patented ideas in more than one design of 'box. Maybe if you dismantle the box and search for features claimed in the patent you may get a better idea. 

The important part is the Claims, which are listed on Espacenet

 

Steve



#12 Peter Morley

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Posted 28 February 2021 - 10:07

So the bolts holding the remote on are BSF - so it's British?

 

Patent number apparently 406095 - with the 9 being difficult to read.

 

Have just tried all variations on 40x0y5 on the sites Cirrus linked to, and as has he said the only motoring patent is the Alvis one 405095.

That seems to apply to the method of selecting reverse gear, which is all internal so external differences aren't surprising.

 

Assuming it is 405095 that could presumably mean the reversing system is licensed from Alvis rather than it is definitely an Alvis gearbox?

 

Looks like the next step will be to find an Alvis expert?



#13 PJGD

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Posted 28 February 2021 - 22:05

Certainly, the construction of "your" gearbox and that in the Alvis patent are quite different and so it is unlikely that it comes from the same drawing office, nevertheless it would be worth checking with an Alvis expert.  

 

I think that they were getting into military projects in the mid-thirties and so one might expect a divergence between the car and off-road side of the business?