270 replies to this topic

[Zoe]

With all respect to Murray, he was 77 when he stepped down in 2001. That's 10 years past retirement age in any normal job.

Some exceptional people love their work and stay at it longer than they are legally required. No harm in that as long as they enjoy it, don't harm others (surgeon with Parkison's) and especially welcome in the case of a full-blooded enthusiast like Murray.

 

(I did have such a wonderful person close to me at work and I was always happy she did not stop working at the legal retirement age: https://en.wikipedia...veline_Gottzein)

[absinthedude]

I don't think that Murray ever lost his enthusiasm for motorsport or his marbles....as recently as January 2021 he was writing about the current state of motor racing. And judging by quite recent footage of him (2015, 2018) he might not have been up to all the international travel and jogging round the circuits in his 90s....but he still was sharp as the proverbial tack and could have continued commentating long after 2001. It wasn't a job for Murray, it was a passion. And the rather unpleasant parts of the British gutter press took away some of that passion with their nasty articles. 

 

"Oh he was 10 years past retirement age"....no doubt spoken by a young'un or someone who doesn't love their job. My ex boss was forcibly retired from being senior science tech at the school where I still work back in 2011 at the age of 72 on grounds of age.... During his exit interview he received a phone call with a job offer at another school a short walk from his home.....he still works there....got covid over Easter 2020, tested positive for antibodies a couple of months later on his 82nd birthday and decided to go back into work as he's probably immune. The guy is a legend....before working in schools he did decades working in medical research....when Crick & Watson were touring England giving presentations about DNA, who was operating their slide projector? My ex boss....you cannot buy that kind of experience or enthusiasm, which he's spent the last 20 years passing on to school kids.

 

Murray witnessed Nuvolari, Ascari, Fangio, Moss, Clark, Stewart, Andretti, Prost, Senna, Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton....it is likely no other human could say that. Certainly none involved in the sport in any sort of professional capacity. For sure Murray would have slowed up, perhaps even in the early 2000s, but we were robbed of more commentaries. When he did come back to do the BBC Radio commentary for one grand prix in 2007 he was as good as ever. Indeed he seemed more fresh than in 2000/2001...perhaps because he felt no pressure from the gutter press. 

 

Should Bill Boddy have retired in the 70s and stopped writing for Motor Sport magazine and stopped writing books? Should my former boss have thrown in the towel 17 years ago? Should Susan Finley have retired from NASA 18 years ago? 

[SpeedRacer`]

Ooohhh thanks for that ExFlag.
Missed the first showing !!

And while I’m here ...SCREW the Daily Mail.
Jp

 

I can remember being a paper boy at that time (in 2000), and reading the back of some paper and wondering what they were talking about criticising Murray for - don't think I'd even noticed or cared!

 

Also have a look at this - Murray was trying to help out his Aussie friends as recently as a few months ago:

 

https://www.speedcaf...-beyond-belief/

[Vitesse2]

Should Bill Boddy have retired in the 70s and stopped writing for Motor Sport magazine and stopped writing books? 

No, but I do wish that in his dotage there had been some more - shall we say - 'robust' editing of his output. Particularly where the closure of Brooklands was concerned. When you compare the fourth (final) edition of his Brooklands book to earlier ones - not to mention the contemporaneous press reports - you can see that he has built up a Brooklands myth which in some aspects bears absolutely no relation to reality. There were also some absolute howlers in his later Motor Sport columns - he seems to have preferred to rely on memory rather than going back to original sources, some of which he'd written himself! And I guess nobody at MS dared to try to correct it - because he was 'The Bod'. In this context I always bear in mind the title of Duff Cooper's autobiography: Old Men Forget.

 

Murray, OTOH, was still sharp as a tack almost to the end.

[PayasYouRace]

Some exceptional people love their work and stay at it longer than they are legally required. No harm in that as long as they enjoy it, don't harm others (surgeon with Parkison's) and especially welcome in the case of a full-blooded enthusiast like Murray.

(I did have such a wonderful person close to me at work and I was always happy she did not stop working at the legal retirement age: https://en.wikipedia...veline_Gottzein)

Then again, commentary was never Murray’s career. It was his hobby. He retired from advertising at 59.

[absinthedude]

My dad only made it to 71 but he never retired.....even when terminally ill with cancer. The day he dropped dead he was contemplating going into the office the following morning. As I slide rather disgracefully into middle age myself, I cannot see myself retired in 20 years time. Whereas my mother was totally ready to retire aged 62. Mind you.....14 years on she's often bored but she doesn't regret retiring. 

 

Murray retained all the qualities he needed as a commentator for quite a number of years after he "retired" - and yes, let us not forget that he actually retired from his formal career in advertising decades ago. He would have slowed down, perhaps only done European races...though he was still travelling around the world circa 2010 so who knows? His commentary career was definitely cut short, and the gutter press played a big part. When the most popular newspapers in your home country are suggesting you're past it, possibly senile, making fun of your mistakes and suggesting you go.....it's going to have an effect regardless of what the fans say and regardless of whether the papers are actually right or not. At least he never lost his love of motorsport and clearly remained an avid enthusiast until the very end.

[pacificquay]

There may have been nasty articles in the Daily Mail, but he was very clear in his book he was going on his own terms.

 

ITV were perfectly happy for him to stay on.

[Burai]

Yeah, he realised it was time to stop when he put his hip out at Goodwood. I don't doubt Murray could have kept going from a studio in London or even done it from his own home ala John Peel, but he was never going to be happy doing that, was he? The man that would randomly turn up to Thruxton in the pouring rain on his weekend off to watch the lower formulae so he could meet and keep abreast of the young drivers coming through?

 

He loved being in the paddock, talking to people, looking for the stories, getting a feel for the event and trying to convey that to the audience at home. No, the Eurosport/F1 Digital+ approach was never going to work for Murray Walker.

[Risil]

Some exceptional people love their work and stay at it longer than they are legally required. No harm in that as long as they enjoy it, don't harm others (surgeon with Parkison's) and especially welcome in the case of a full-blooded enthusiast like Murray.
 
(I did have such a wonderful person close to me at work and I was always happy she did not stop working at the legal retirement age: https://en.wikipedia...veline_Gottzein)

 

Peter Alliss kept commentating on golf for the BBC until 2019 -- and hadn't actually retired when he died in December 2020.

 

Golf is different of course, and I think that some combination of the constant long-distance travel, the sport's fast pace and Murray's own frenetic style meant that he wasn't going to be able to keep at it into his late eighties. He probably got out at the right time, although it's bit of a shame that wasn't there to describe the battles of Kimi, Alonso and Hamilton. Imagine Brazil 2008 with Murray. Imagine if that had been his sign-off.

[Zoe]

Rolf Kalb did the snooker commentary in Germany with a quiet voice, suited to the quiet nature of the sport. Still I just LOVED the minute of Murray's snooker commentary that was posted in this thread a while ago!

[azza200]

Murrays sombre commentary during the Imola GP is memorable as you can tell he is thinking of Senna he knows it was bad and some of his comments during the race can tell even he wants the race to be over and is just going thru the motions. That must of been tough for him as he does say in his book 

[cpbell]

Rolf Kalb did the snooker commentary in Germany with a quiet voice, suited to the quiet nature of the sport. Still I just LOVED the minute of Murray's snooker commentary that was posted in this thread a while ago!

Ted Lowe here in the UK was the same:

 

[pacificquay]

Peter Alliss kept commentating on golf for the BBC until 2019 -- and hadn't actually retired when he died in December 2020.

 

Golf is different of course, and I think that some combination of the constant long-distance travel, the sport's fast pace and Murray's own frenetic style meant that he wasn't going to be able to keep at it into his late eighties. He probably got out at the right time, although it's bit of a shame that wasn't there to describe the battles of Kimi, Alonso and Hamilton. Imagine Brazil 2008 with Murray. Imagine if that had been his sign-off.

Indeed Allis commentated on the 2020 Masters just weeks before his death

[absinthedude]

Murrays sombre commentary during the Imola GP is memorable as you can tell he is thinking of Senna he knows it was bad and some of his comments during the race can tell even he wants the race to be over and is just going thru the motions. That must of been tough for him as he does say in his book 

 

He was class personified that day.....a very serious accident is always the worst thing a motorsport commentator has to work through, and that day Murray kept talking to us even when he was likely seeing things he didn't want to. Remember that the BBC that weekend had a roving camera in the pits and often cut from the "world feed" when the latter showed Senna being extracted from his car etc. Murray was calmly describing for us what he could see on his screens "Senna is out of the car and being tended to"....meanwhile his commentary box partner that day was Dr. Jonathan Palmer. JP, being a fully qualified medical doctor, also knew how grave the situation was. So two commentators who were pretty much sure we'd all just witnessed a man receive fatal injuries had a very tough job to do. 

 

Both managed it...but Murray really was totally class that day.

[Gabrci]

Murray witnessed Nuvolari, Ascari, Fangio, Moss, Clark, Stewart, Andretti, Prost, Senna, Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton....it is likely no other human could say that. 

 

Indeed and what really strikes me is that while Nuvolari raced into the 1950's, Murray also saw race and met Richard Seaman, who was to die in 1939. 

[dannyricsshoe]

When you compare Walker to Croft it really makes you realise how special he was.

A likeable character.
Knew the drivers and teams.
Distinctive and enjoyable voice, didn't shout but was able to raise his normal voice.
Didn't hide emotion.
Commentary was selfless and about the drivers and teams, not what he had to eat and not about him.
Never interrupted his co commentator.
Chose the correct time to get excited and when not. Could understand if an overtake was on the cards and when not.

With Croft it's the opposite on all those points. They'll never be someone who's as good as Walker. RIP.

Edited by dannyricsshoe, 18 March 2021 - 08:01.

[Celloman]

I don't think that Murray ever lost his enthusiasm for motorsport or his marbles....as recently as January 2021 he was writing about the current state of motor racing. And judging by quite recent footage of him (2015, 2018) he might not have been up to all the international travel and jogging round the circuits in his 90s....but he still was sharp as the proverbial tack and could have continued commentating long after 2001. It wasn't a job for Murray, it was a passion. And the rather unpleasant parts of the British gutter press took away some of that passion with their nasty articles. 

 

"Oh he was 10 years past retirement age"....no doubt spoken by a young'un or someone who doesn't love their job. My ex boss was forcibly retired from being senior science tech at the school where I still work back in 2011 at the age of 72 on grounds of age.... During his exit interview he received a phone call with a job offer at another school a short walk from his home.....he still works there....got covid over Easter 2020, tested positive for antibodies a couple of months later on his 82nd birthday and decided to go back into work as he's probably immune. The guy is a legend....before working in schools he did decades working in medical research....when Crick & Watson were touring England giving presentations about DNA, who was operating their slide projector? My ex boss....you cannot buy that kind of experience or enthusiasm, which he's spent the last 20 years passing on to school kids.

 

Murray witnessed Nuvolari, Ascari, Fangio, Moss, Clark, Stewart, Andretti, Prost, Senna, Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton....it is likely no other human could say that. Certainly none involved in the sport in any sort of professional capacity. For sure Murray would have slowed up, perhaps even in the early 2000s, but we were robbed of more commentaries. When he did come back to do the BBC Radio commentary for one grand prix in 2007 he was as good as ever. Indeed he seemed more fresh than in 2000/2001...perhaps because he felt no pressure from the gutter press. 

 

Should Bill Boddy have retired in the 70s and stopped writing for Motor Sport magazine and stopped writing books? Should my former boss have thrown in the towel 17 years ago? Should Susan Finley have retired from NASA 18 years ago? 

I think it's quite common to have a maximum age, university laws in my country state you are forced to retire latest as 68, no matter if you are a professor, teacher or other personnel. You can of course still hold unofficial positions and be financed by third party, but the official post stops there. Especially in the university world many people are not happy to be forced to retire and most would surely be able to keep working, but it's what it is.

 

Murry got to continue for 10 years above that, which is why I feel his retirement wasn't anything unexpected. Some US commentators seem to have gone well into their 70's a well, but surely he ranks among the oldest of any active and past commentators. Actually the ageism has got a lot worse since then, these days I don't see many people in their 50's or 60's working as media figures or at least they are being sidelined at a certain age. I'd be surprised if Brundle isn't gone within the next five years.

[JimmyClark]

Another great clip I just came across:

https://youtu.be/zl-oAsDCGNA

[absinthedude]

I think it's quite common to have a maximum age, university laws in my country state you are forced to retire latest as 68, no matter if you are a professor, teacher or other personnel. You can of course still hold unofficial positions and be financed by third party, but the official post stops there. Especially in the university world many people are not happy to be forced to retire and most would surely be able to keep working, but it's what it is.

 

Murry got to continue for 10 years above that, which is why I feel his retirement wasn't anything unexpected. Some US commentators seem to have gone well into their 70's a well, but surely he ranks among the oldest of any active and past commentators. Actually the ageism has got a lot worse since then, these days I don't see many people in their 50's or 60's working as media figures or at least they are being sidelined at a certain age. I'd be surprised if Brundle isn't gone within the next five years.

 

I don't know which country you are in but it is now unlawful to forcibly retire someone in the UK and the EU unless they are deemed incompetent due to age. My ex boss was forcibly retired on the last day it was legal to do so, purely on the grounds of age. His trade union kicked up a fuss but in the end, "employee is over 65" was lawful at the time. The very next day it was not. The organisation was trying to restructure and downsize the staff in the cheapest way possible, and in doing so lost a unique employee with experience and knowledge way beyond his position and who was considered a legend by his colleagues. Sometimes you cannot replace that kind of knowledge and experience.

 

But I suppose under your system Susan Finley should have left NASA 20 years ago. Good thing she didn't. If you don't know who she is, firstly shame on you...secondly look her up. Total bad-ass. 

 

 

Murray was far from "past it" in 2001. As for not seeing people in their 50s working in the media, ever watch the news? Again I don't know where you live or what your media viewing habits are but there are plenty older than that. Frankly I couldn't disagree much more with your attitude on ageism. 

[ensign14]

I don't know which country you are in but it is now unlawful to forcibly retire someone in the UK and the EU unless they are deemed incompetent due to age.
 

 

You can do it if you have a good objective reason as well.  E.g. creating space for junior staff to get promoted.

[absinthedude]

So I had a think about this frankly bizarre idea that there are few people in their 50s and over in the media, as supposed by @celloman

 

Just taking the two most popular news outlets in the UK, I looked up some BBC and Sky News presenters

 

BBC

Fiona Bruce 56

Huw Edwards 59

George Alagiah 65

Kirsty Wark 66

 

Sky News

Anna Botting 53

Dermot Murnaghan 63

Mark Austin 62

Adam Boulton 62

Anna Jones 54

Kay Burney 60

 

And let us not forget Sir Trevor McDonald may have retired from news reading in his 70s but at 81 he's still narrating documentaries.

 

And where would we be without Sir David Attenborough, who at 94 is still the world's top television naturalist.

 

Nope...can't think of any middle aged or older people in the media....