47 replies to this topic

[Doug Nye]

I have just posted this on the Dave McKinney Forum - if anyone here might be interested.

 

Forgive me for not being - in any way - up to speed with the Alta world as it exists at present but this evening, while hunting for some old files on another subject I came across DSJ's copy of the pre-war Alta factory foreman's notebook, and his listing of the 29-30 odd cars built pre-war by Geoffrey Taylor's company.  If this is already in the public arena, or available within the Alta circle, I'm glad to hear that this is the case.

 

But if it's not, while I'm not going to post it all here, if anyone currently has specific questions about the early history of a pre-war Alta I might now be able to assist with a little contemporary information.

 

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 13 March 2021 - 23:05.

[cooper997]

Quite likely Jenks used the notepad for this Alta 50th anniversary piece for May 81 Motor Sport.

 

To save a lot of mucking around to dig out the issue, it's much easier to add the link

https://www.motorspo...ay-1981/52/alta

 

 

Stephen

[Doug Nye]

That certainly fits.  But it barely scratches the surface.

 

DCN

[MarkBisset]

A timely find Doug.

 

Have recently come across a swag of photos of Alta 1100 s/c chassis, or perhaps more correctly engine #25, as an article priority it has now jumped the queue!

 

Said to be delivered to AC Lace (in John Blanden’s book) in May 1935, later to our favourite Spook, A G Sinclair who converted it from a sporty to a single-seater. To Oz in time for the 1938 South Australian GP. Then to Bill Reynolds who fitted a Ford V8. Then to Alan Male for Ted Gray to race. Later still to Ron Edgerton, Arthur Chick, back to Ted Gray in the early fifties

 

Ultimately to Graeme Lowe in the sixties and resurrection as a sporty in January 1999, and I think, still owned by his widow.

 

It would be great to know what the notes say about this car please.

 

Mark

 

 

Alan G Sinclair, Alta 1100 s/c, South Aust GP, Lobethal January 1938 (N Howard)

[Doug Nye]

Oh great - you would choose one on which there's very little real detail in these files. 

 

"No 22S - Engine only - fitted into car imported to Australia in 1938 by Alan Sinclair - (Note) Is this the A.E. Sinclair who raced an 1100cc car at Crystal Palace Oct 1937 - If so, which car was it?"  - DSJ left another note: "22S - Engine only - Graeme Lowe, Victoria, Australia".

 

Plus this: "The (Sinclair car's origins) built in Hammersmith, London, 1937/38 from a crashed Alta sports car, a photo of which is in the Geoffrey Taylor scrap books.  Alan Sinclair and Freddie Hoare put the machine together, the former shipped same to Australia.  Facts verified by former Brooklands Alta driver G.P. Harvey-Noble."

 

This might (very unlikely - but might) relate: "Chassis 11 - Standard Sports 2-seater - Sold to Mr Last of Littlehampton - Completely smashed and written off. Feb 1932."

 

Jenks also noted: "22S - Eng. only - (No initial customer recorded) - s/c to Italy".

 

As for No 25 - "25RiS - 'DPJ 929' - A.C. Lace - Sports 2-seater s/c".

 

DCN

[Vitesse2]

Oh great - you would choose one on which there's very little real detail in these files. 

 

"No 22S - Engine only - fitted into car imported to Australia in 1938 by Alan Sinclair - (Note) Is this the A.E. Sinclair who raced an 1100cc car at Crystal Palace Oct 1937 - If so, which car was it?"  - DSJ left another note: "22S - Engine only - Graeme Lowe, Victoria, Australia".

 

Plus this: "The (Sinclair car's origins) built in Hammersmith, London, 1937/38 from a crashed Alta sports car, a photo of which is in the Geoffrey Taylor scrap books.  Alan Sinclair and Freddie Hoare put the machine together, the former shipped same to Australia.  Facts verified by former Brooklands Alta driver G.P. Harvey-Noble."

 

This might (very unlikely - but might) relate: "Chassis 11 - Standard Sports 2-seater - Sold to Mr Last of Littlehampton - Completely smashed and written off. Feb 1932."

 

Jenks also noted: "22S - Eng. only - (No initial customer recorded) - s/c to Italy".

 

As for No 25 - "25RiS - 'DPJ 929' - A.C. Lace - Sports 2-seater s/c".

 

DCN

And another piece of the Alan Sinclair jigsaw slips into place!

 

Another snippet, from the passenger list of Orient Lines' Orford on a voyage from London (6 Nov 1937) to Adelaide (arrived 11 Dec) ...

Mr AG Sinclair, described as a motor engineer, c/o FAP Motors Ltd, Rear of Clarendon Restaurant, Twickenham.

According to the phone book, the full address of the Clarendon Restaurant was Masonic Banqueting Rooms, 1-5 The Broadway, Twickenham.

Having said that - it seems there is only a Broadway Avenue in Twickenham, not a Broadway. Earlier directories say simply Broadway, London W6, so presumably it was actually Hammersmith Broadway.

Any guesses as to who FAP Motors might be?

So - if we assume F is Freddie Hoare and A is Alan Sinclair who is P? Could he perhaps be - as I speculated a very long time ago - Philip Jucker?

 

https://forums.autos...r/#entry1302112

[fivestar]

Oh great - you would choose one on which there's very little real detail in these files. 

 

"No 22S - Engine only - fitted into car imported to Australia in 1938 by Alan Sinclair - (Note) Is this the A.E. Sinclair who raced an 1100cc car at Crystal Palace Oct 1937 - If so, which car was it?"  - DSJ left another note: "22S - Engine only - Graeme Lowe, Victoria, Australia".

 

Plus this: "The (Sinclair car's origins) built in Hammersmith, London, 1937/38 from a crashed Alta sports car, a photo of which is in the Geoffrey Taylor scrap books.  Alan Sinclair and Freddie Hoare put the machine together, the former shipped same to Australia.  Facts verified by former Brooklands Alta driver G.P. Harvey-Noble."

 

This might (very unlikely - but might) relate: "Chassis 11 - Standard Sports 2-seater - Sold to Mr Last of Littlehampton - Completely smashed and written off. Feb 1932."

 

Jenks also noted: "22S - Eng. only - (No initial customer recorded) - s/c to Italy".

 

As for No 25 - "25RiS - 'DPJ 929' - A.C. Lace - Sports 2-seater s/c".

 

DCN

I wonder how many copies of these Work's records are around. I have one. 

For engine 22 it says Engine N 22s Alta Blower

Italian order Benedetti sent out 15.8.34

Followed by detailed specs on engine.

 

Regarding 25. This is incorrect. Lace owned both #21 and #25.

#21 was the car converted to a single seater and fitted with the engine from 25 when shipped to Australia.

 

If there was an easy way to post photos I would post a photo of a page from my Work's Records.

Edited by fivestar, 14 March 2021 - 22:51.

[cooper997]

What do the records state on this one please Doug?

 

Taken at 1948 AGP, Point Cook - Gaze's 56S (if I've got the correct chassis)

 

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

I wonder how many copies of these Work's records are around. I have one. 

For engine 22 it says Engine N 22s Alta Blower

Italian order Benedetti sent out 15.8.34

Followed by detailed specs on engine.

 

Regarding 25. This is incorrect. Lace owned both #21 and #25.

#21 was the car converted to a single seater and fitted with the engine from 25 when shipped to Australia.

 

If there was an easy way to post photos I would post a photo of a page from my Work's Records.

 

fivestar, uploading to postimage is easy. https://postimages.org/

if you plan on doing this regularly I'd say make your own (free) account so you can refer back and find if need be. But it can be done without an acount.

 

From PC I have this processes.

Have a browser open for both postimages and TNF (so you can swap from one to the other easily)

I have it set on '17 inch monitor' and 'No expiration'

Left click 'Choose images'

Then the file upload (to your pictures file) window pops up I click 'recently changed' rather than scrolling many pictures, as I've usually just created the image/photo before it's about to appear on TNF. Ideally you don't want to be adding massive meg files - even 200 - 300kb works fine for here.  

Double left click the image you wish to load, then when the file window appears on screen, refer to 'Hotlink for forums' (7th line down) - Left Click the blue icon at the end - it will then state 'copied'

Swap to your TNF browser and the thread you wish to post, then I do 'Ctrl'' 'C" pushing at the same time and the image should appear in the TNF post you're creating.

I then usually click 'More Reply Options' on the bottom right corner of the screen. (this allows a preview and edit if required). Then once happy left click 'Post' - with a new post created to the thread with image.

 

Sounds and reads awkward, but easy as and can be done in seconds, not minutes once you master the order.

 

Failing that pm me with your email address and we'll make contact and I'll post on your behalf.

 

 

Stephen

Edited by cooper997, 15 March 2021 - 00:51.

[MarkBisset]

Many thanks Doug, V2 and 5-Star.

 

On the basis of fivestar’s input may I see the #21 notes too please Doug?

 

As to postimage skills I thoroughly recommend Stephen’s phone tuition Fivestar.

I am exceptionally thick, even by Australian standards, but Stephen’s patience overcame even that quite considerable barrier.

 

 

Agent 007 at Rob Roy Hillclimb, Christmas Hills, outer Melbourne in November 1938 (L Sims Collection) 

[Ray Bell]

That does sound complicated, Stephen...

 

To my way of thinking, you'd be saving the pic in a file where you put photos you want to post. I file them by the month and year, so one done today would have a file number starting with 0321. Click 'upload', double click on the file, then go to the 'hotlink for forums' line and click to copy.

 

But I always set up the photo to the size I want it beforehand using Irfanview. Again, a ten-second job. What you didn't mention is that the file has to be a jpg or png file, and there's not many I post which are bigger than 70kb, that's plenty.

[fivestar]

That does sound complicated, Stephen...

 

To my way of thinking, you'd be saving the pic in a file where you put photos you want to post. I file them by the month and year, so one done today would have a file number starting with 0321. Click 'upload', double click on the file, then go to the 'hotlink for forums' line and click to copy.

 

But I always set up the photo to the size I want it beforehand using Irfanview. Again, a ten-second job. What you didn't mention is that the file has to be a jpg or png file, and there's not many I post which are bigger than 70kb, that's plenty.

If I am desperate to post a photo, i will email it to Stephen to post, but as I am locked down due to Covid, maybe trying this will keep the grey cells turning over.

[Ray Bell]

It's easy, really very easy...

 

Don't stress, just do it.

[Doug Nye]

"No 21S - FS 8673 - A.J. Cormack - Racing Model s/c" - "Cormack - 1100cc 2 str" - and then there's this.

 

"1934 March 19th - No 21S to A.J. Cormack FS 8673 First s/c car" - and then there's this.

 

 

All in DSJ's neat handwriting on what he always used to describe as "badger's bum" rough fibrous paper, close to being card.

 

DCN

[Doug Nye]

Alta No 56 entry:

 

 

I have no idea what "separate sheets" Jenks is referring to at the end of this entry.  There are separate typed-out sheets on the 1100cc cars up to chassis 19, but none others (that I have rediscovered - thus far).

 

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 15 March 2021 - 09:25.

[cooper997]

Brilliant! Thank you Doug (and Jenks) for sharing the Badger's Bum ledger pages. Wherever Jenk's is writing his latest race report from, he's probably still using it!

 

 

Stephen

[MarkBisset]

LOL Stephen, and yes indeed!
 

Many thanks Doug, wonderful stuff, now for the hard work! 
 

m 

[MVS 151]

Doug, is there ,by any chance, any similar records (or copy) by DSJ for the post war cars please ?

Thanks.

[Doug Nye]

Not in anything approaching similar depth I am sorry to say.

 

DCN

[cooper997]

Any chance of a rummage through Jenks Alta ledger again please, Doug? Another from the Tony Gaze fleet - 54S 2 litre Sports.

 

Shown on Rob Roy Hillclimb startline at the March 13, 1950 meeting. The same meeting that Cooper would make its competition debut on Aussie soil.

 

 

 

Stephen

[fivestar]

Any chance of a rummage through Jenks Alta ledger again please, Doug? Another from the Tony Gaze fleet - 54S 2 litre Sports.

 

Shown on Rob Roy Hillclimb startline at the March 13, 1950 meeting. The same meeting that Cooper would make its competition debut on Aussie soil.

 

 

 

Stephen

Stephen, this is actually #63s although it was fitted with the Engine from #54S when purchased by Tony Gaze.

[cooper997]

The May 81 Jenks Alta feature linked in post 2 rekindled a few memories that appeared over later 1981 Motor Sport issues.

 

Here's the first response from June's issue and if I've got the correct car this time is 66S (again easier to give the link)...

https://www.motorspo...aders-june-1981

"Alta Recollections

Sir,

D.S.J.’s interesting article on Alta history has motivated me to assemble a few memories of a 2-litre blown sports Alta owned by me for just over a year during 1961 and 1962. My Alta was ex John Heath and a truly impressive sports car by any standards. The exhaust system had the lot! An enormous bunch of bananas, Brooklands silencer beneath the driver’s right elbow and a fishtail for good measure. There was a huge Roots supercharger sucking through a 2″ SU, I remember 8-10 p.s.i. as being the normal reading on the boost gauge; a highly sophisticated light alloy, twin cam engine of 1,990 c.c. with wet liners, ENV110 preselector gearbox, 16″ brake drums, no doors, flared wings, rounded tail and aeroscreens completed the ensemble. I now know that only seven sports Altas with 1 1/2 or 2-litre engines were ever made. Although I didn’t appreciate the fact at the time, this was a pure-bred racing car with an extra seat and a few less pounds boost: a sort of road-going ERA.

I bought her from John Grice at the VSCC Prescott meeting in 1961 for £375. The delicious whiff of Castrol R which seemed to permeate every inch of the car was certainly a deciding factor in the purchase. I towed her home behind my 1927 2-litre Lagonda.

The Alta, for all its complexity and state of tune, turned out to be entirely usable and reliable. The only trouble I experienced was with the ENV gearbox. In theory, the friction bands in these gearboxes are self-adjusting as long as the gear-change pedal is pushed to its limit each time before being released. Competitive acceleration through the gears in a potent car usually means rather hurried pedal work and consequently the linings slipped, became hot and bothered and wore out quickly. The mechanics at a local corporation bus depot proved exceedingly helpful and knowledgeable about the repair of pre-selector boxes.

The excellent braking, direct steering, stiff suspension and predictable handling allied to shattering acceleration up to an easy 100 m.p.h. meant that twisty roads became twistier and the long straight bits shorter and narrower, which makes for a far more interesting and exciting journey and is what sports car motoring is all about.

I became an avid Alta fan and began to read up and research all the literature I could unearth on the marque. I found many references to what must have been my car when compaigned by John Heath in the years immediately prior to and after the war. Birmingham’s Central Reference Library was particularly helpful. But, the more I read, the more I began to discover that the highly developed blown engine that I had been using for trips to the pub, shopping and general daily use, much as one might use a TR2, had a long and, to me, disturbing history of unreliability and fragility. The gas-filled rings separating coolant from combustion chamber, previously the objects of purely academic interest, now became the cause of increasing awe and considerable respect. Temporarily putting pessimistic thoughts to the back on my mind I continued to treat the Alta as if I expected it to be utterly dependable and, luckily, so it was.

I entered the occasional sprint and continued to enjoy the car, but my growing knowledge of Alta matters brought on an increasing awareness that I was driving an exclusive, and rather precious motor car. And, more to the point, any serious mechanical failure could entail financial disaster, thus I reluctantly decided to sell her. One of my advertisements in Motor Sport eventually produced a buyer, at £400. It was with mixed feelings that I watched her being driven away to Weston-super-Mare, I think it was, before going to America.

GPL3 came back to England in 1978, thanks to Dan Margulies, and I think he still has the car. Apparently several undignified modifications were carried out in the States and she can never properly be called “original” again.

How things have changed in 20 years with the exception, in the nicest possible way, of Motor Sport.

Stoulton, Worcs 

P. Bevis"

 

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

This time another of the Alta related letters in 1981 Motor Sport. This time from Tim Hewison in Australia, who also owned Maserati 4CLT/48 in the late 70s/ early 80s era.. Noting the sequence of his initials, that come up as JCT Hewison with Alta related google search. I hope the Motor Sport version is correct? 

 

Aug 81 Motor Sport

Vintage postbag Letters

 

Altas

Sir,

I was interested to read the letter in your June issue from Mr. Bevis as I bought the Alta owned once by John Heath, subsequently by Mr. Bevis and later by Dan Margulies.

This car (engine No.66) has had a new body built and is now being brought back to original condition mechanically. What is interesting is that of the seven 1 1/2-litre and 2-litre pre-war sports cars, three are alive and well in Australia (the other engine Nos. being 54 and 70). Of the six offset single-seaters built, one (No.56) is owned by Graeme Lowe in Australia and is driven regularly and reliably by him and I own the engine out of the Boyle car (No.58).

In addition there is one post-war two stage blown car (engine No.1111), at least one 1,100 car and another 1,100 c.c. engine. All in all, a fairly high percentage of total production.

J.T.C. Hewison

 

 

 

Stephen

Edited by cooper997, 27 March 2021 - 01:06.

[Doug Nye]

Apologies for tardy response - Jenks did not record much real detail on 66S, but here is what we have:

 

 

 

DCN

[cooper997]

Thanks Doug, the additional page with chassis to registration number on one list is also very handy to see.

 

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

Yet another Alta related AMS cover. Arthur Chick began running the somewhat modified ex Sinclair car in September 1948

 

 

 

Stephen

[MarkBisset]

Cripes Stephen,

That cover shot is in the Chick Collection Bob King gave me last week- where is the test? I think his guess was Fishos or maybe Point Cook? 
I posted the Lycoming in the first Edgerton Collection quickie article I did. See engine shot I added later.
m

[cooper997]

Mark, both the Australian Specials Alta V8 feature and the 26/9/48 AMSC Speed Trials are features of this issue.

 

The road shown reminds me of my limited visits to the RAAF Point Cook - the incoming and outgoing service roads. But there was a definite 'hush' about where they were held in forthcoming information notes in September 48 AMS and the report. I suspect that comes down to not wanting punters turning up, just AMSC Club members in the know.

 

For the record, in 'Unlimited Racing' Arthur ran a 17.0 standing start, flying start was 9.0. Charlie Dean in Maybach ran 15.2 and 7.5 (FTD), while Ron Edgerton said to be running the Lycoming with bodywork for the first time ran 18.2 and 11.0.

 

Although not listed as an entry, Earl Davey-Milne might be able to confirm the site as PC. That means Bob could perhaps contact him.

 

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

Here's another of the 1981 Motor Sport letters, with Jenks response tagged at the end.

 

Sept 81 Motor Sport

John Norman Alta letter https://www.motorspo...-september-1981

Alta Cars

Sir,

In 1958 or 59 I acquired an Alta, registration APG 57, which must have been an 1,100 cc model, since it had a single ohc engine endowed with a single side-draught carburetter. Unfortunately, I have no record of the chassis number. The first registration was I think in 1932.

The bodywork was made of fairly substantial steel sheet, which had survived the years remarkably well. There was a slab petrol tank of about 15 gallons capacity. To fit myself into the cockpit I had to make a smaller steering-wheel. I took the rim of a cast aluminium wheel from an early Ford 8, and made a 3-spoke centre from 1/8″ Dural, which looked quite elegant.

The single carb, was mounted on a combined inlet-and-exhaust manifold of such design that the engine must have been well strangled; the Brooklands silencer and exhaust pipe were concealed under the near-side bodywork, and combined the maximum of power loss with the maximum of noise at about 3,500 rpm. I fitted a Morris 10 ex-WD engine and gearbox, unfortunately disposing of the Alta unit. I kept the spirit of the thing by fitting a remote-control gear lever from, I think, a J2 or possibly a Magnette. The Morris engine propelled the car as fast as was safe, and a Standard Vanguard silencer gave less noise but more power.

The chassis was very flexible, with channel section sides about 4″ deep, underslung at the front. Rear suspension was by quarter-elliptic springs and very short radius rods which were rigidly bolted to the rear axle and restrained the axle sideways as well as fore-and-aft. Because of the rigid bolting, the axle acted as an immensely stiff torsion bar, as, I believe, did the de Dion tube on the E type ERA. Thus when the Alta wanted to roll, something had to give, and one of the bolts on the axle sheared, leaving just one radius rod to take the axle torque, which it did quite happily. As can be imagined, it was possible to make the rear axle climb up the rear suspension in a most interesting way — how did it fare in competition?

The radiator, hidden under a cowling as in your recently-published photographs, seemed to have come off a Bugatti. The brakes were Lockheed hydraulic, and effective even though the cast aluminium backplates at the rear were considerably warped. The hand brake consisted of two shoes contracting onto a small pulley mounted between gearbox and front universal joint; as the pulley was mildly eccentric, the brake was totally ineffective but made a lovely tinkling noise as we went along.

I sold the car in 1960 on being posted to Malta. I saw it again at an AMOC Curborough sprint, when it had acquired a BMW 327 or 328 engine and gearbox, having been resuscitated from a virtually stripped wreck standing in the open.

John Norman, Nairobi, Kenya.

 

[Alta APG 57 was originally an 1,100 cc, twin-carburetter, twin ohc, 4-seater built for Cecil Taylor, the elder brother of Geoffrey Taylor. It was chassis number 18, the eighth car built, and was delivered on June 15th 1933 and painted blue. All Alta engines had cross-flow cylinder heads so it sounds as though the original engine had already been replaced by a non-Alta unit when Mr. Norman acquired the car, and all Alta engines had two overhead camshafts. Where is the car now? — DSJ]

 

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

Part of the 4 page Mark Bisset, Sinclair Alta feature in the latest Auto Action #1809.

 

 

https://autoaction.c...uto-action-1809

 

 

Stephen

[MarkBisset]

 

 

Thanks Stephen.

The article was made possible by the confluence of Doug/DSJ material on chassis numbers, and getting access to Racing Ron Edgerton’s photo archive.
This is a shot which didn’t make the cut, Arthur Chick at Fishos, not sure what year, early fifties. (Racing Ron Edgerton Collection)

[cooper997]

Mark, likely candidate for that photo is the March 1949 Fisherman's Bend meeting. However, he had 2 entries and currently too lazy to dig out AMS...

Sun, Event 5 Scratch Race for cars over 1500cc 12 laps 4.45pm p13

6 A E Chick A E Chick Bugatti s/c

10 A E Chick A Ratcliff Alta V8

Mon Event 4 Open Handicap – for all capacities 25 laps 4pm p22

6 A E Chick A E Chick Bugatti s/c 2.55

10 A E Chick A Ratcliff Alta V8 4.10

 

 

Stephen

[fivestar]

There is an article on the Alta Ford V8 in a 1948 issue of AMS titled Australian Specials --No .26 and on the " Alta Special" in a 1949 issue titled Australian Specials- No.38.

[cooper997]

Mike, the October 1948 AMS shown in post 27 is the issue with the then Chick-owned Alta V8 feature and then 12 months later, October 1949 AMS is the Bill Dutton car using the 1100cc Alta engine.

 

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

In the April 1949 AMS March Fisherman's Bend report it appears the Chick Bugatti was a non-starter both days. The Alta V8 can be picked out of a grid photo and Chick is mentioned as driving and taking 4th place on the Sunday and retired with no brakes on Monday. 

 

 

Stephen

Edited by cooper997, 25 April 2021 - 09:18.

[cooper997]

One way to sell an Alta - 9/5/47 The Autocar.

 

 

 

Stephen

[NeillMurdoch]

Any chance that you might post a photo of the entry for 55S please Doug?

 

This is what it looks like these days. Not a great car in traffic.

 

 

Many thanks in advance,

 

Neill

[MarkBisset]

I've been absorbed in Alta's on and off for the last couple of months researching a couple of articles, one of which has just been published.

 

I've been carpet-bombed with friends Alta material in the most enjoyable type of way, but it's still not clear to me how many cars were built. The various articles have hugely varying numbers. I want to state the number of cars built in the next piece and get it right, hence the summary below for all to attack...

 

I'm happy to wait for The Book in process for the fine detail which flows from each and every car - my attempt at a list is one of first 'owners', my interest is in how many cars he pushed out the factory door...

 

 

Alta Production Numbers : M Bisset : July 17, 2023

 

1.Pre-War

 

1.1 Sports

 

#10 1100 reg 1/11/28 PK4053 G Taylor

#11 1100 w/off Feb 1932

#12 1100 del 12/31 GT1617 Lord Curzon

#14 1100 del 13/6/32 GX2281 Ludovic Ford

#15S 1100 del 13/7/32 PJ7929 JE Finch

#16 1500 KJ8421 RA Gardner 4-seater

#17 1100 del 12/3/33 KV4041 EJ Evans 4-seater

#18 1100 del 15/6/33 APG57 CE Taylor 4-seater

#20 1100 del 5/6/34 EPG903 Patricia Oxenden

#21S 1100 del 19/3/34 FS8673 AJ Cormack

#23S 1100 8/2/35 Leigh esquire

#24S 1100 15/2/35 AER884 PN Whitehead ‘new type cowl and no doors’

#25S 1100 5/5/35 DJP929 AC Lace ‘chain drive to cams’

#54S 1500-2000 24/12/35 FF4515 Dr R Williams (1500-2000, that is, built with a 1.5 engine which was later enlarged/replaced by a 2-litre)

#55S 1500-2000 19/2/36 DPG167 WWS Bennett 

#63S 1500-2000 EJJ703 Hunt & Pink ??

#64S 1500-2000 Fritz Kilgarow (only LHD car built)

#66S 1500-2000 23/7/38 GPL3 K Gammon

#70N 26/6/39 KMP977 B Townsend

 

1.2 Offset-single seaters

 

#52S 20/7/35 AJ Cormack

#53S 11/5/35 EQY8 RR Jackson

#56S 17/4/36 J Wakefield

#57S 2000 21/5/36 JH Bartlett

#58S 2000 F Boyle

#59S 10/9/36 PF Jucker (killed shortly after purchase to Abecassis)

 

 

 

 

 

1.3 Single-seater

 

#61IS 25/4/37 PF Jucker

#62IS complete set of Alta parts to RR Jackson for H Hunter (which I assume was built into a complete car)

#67IS 1/8/39 AH Bendle

#69IS 23/4/39 Lady Mary Grosvenor

 

The single-seaters were fitted with coil springs in vertical sliders with one 1939 car fitted with torsion bars

 

1.4 Other orders, not complete cars

 

#13 April 1932 1100 supercharged engine for RR Jackson’s Horton Special 

#19 8/11/33 Type RI engine D Briault

#22 15/8/34 supercharged engine for Benedetti, Italy

#65 4/10/38 supercharged 2-litre engine for a boat, Watson Esq

#68 28/4/39 1.5-litre supercharged engine to HL Brooke for the Brooke Spl

 

2.Post-War

 

2.1 F1 cars

 

Supercharged 1.5-litres, 2 with two-stage supercharging

 

GP1 1948 G Abecassis

GP2 1949 G Crossley

GP3 1950 J Kelly

GP4 incomplete, became F2/3 below

 

2.2 F2 cars

 

F2/1 1951 FAO Gaze (first entry of an Alta in an F2 race appears to be Gaze @ GP di Monza 13/5/51)

F2/2 1951 Gordon Watson 

F2/3 1951 Ecurie Cowell-Stokes 

F2/4 1952 Oliver Simpson

F2/5 1952 Peter Whitehead

 

 

3. Other random corporate notes

 

.Austin 7, Morris 1000 & Ford Anglia cylinder heads

 

.Alta did WW2 Air Ministry work

 

.Sportscars 19 built 

13 1100s, 2 1500s - one normally aspirated and one supercharged - and four 2-litres all of which were supercharged.

Three cars were 4-seaters (does not reconcile to my list), none of which were supercharged 

MB note – I think this all means as built @ the factory, clearly there were increases in capacity of many cars, very easy to achieve by changing the liners, along the way

 

.F2 engines built

How many I wonder? clearly a few in whole or part to HWM, Cooer and Connaught et al

 

4. Summary of Car Production

 

19 sportscars

6 offset single-seaters

4 pre-war single-seaters

3 GP cars

5 F2 cars

 

37 cars

[Dutchy]

67IS was delivered to A H Beadle, not Bendle.

[jbbugatti]

A few more corrections….

23S A Leigh (Alfred) AAR 638 

58S F O’Boyle

59S Jucker was not killed until June 1937…

[Vitesse2]

58S was originally built as a blown 1.5 litre, tuned by Wilkie Wilkinson at Bellevue Garage and exported to O'Boyle in Ireland. He was a convicted IRA member from Northern Ireland (armed robbery IIRC) and had escaped from a British prison, so necessarily could only race in the Free State/Éire. It was shorn of its supercharger after O'Boyle ran it on pump fuel rather than dope. Source - 'Wilkie' by Wilkie Wilkinson & Chris Jones (Nelson & Saunders, 1987) pp 69, 71, 73.

 

The car was back at Bellevue when war broke out and Wilkinson attempted unsuccessfully to return it to Ireland, so it was stored at Bellevue. He claims (ibid p91) that the car was by then 2 litres - but still unblown. Sold back to Geoffrey Taylor in 1943 for - if Wilkie's memory was correct - £250 (ibid p93). Became the Alta Norris Special.

[terry mcgrath]

I have this OCR scan of a letter re Alta 57S

there are some errors in the OCR of the document which I don't have

 

TELEPHONE- ELMBRIDCE 5761
TELEGRAMS   57C1
Directors —
C.TAYLOR.-
L-TAYLOR-
Your Ref-Our Ref

G
please reply to; Wetherell Vines

The Valley, Barhatch Lane, CRAKLEIGH, Surrey,

Dear Mr. Cameron,
I was very interested to receive your letter of the
27th October, 1959, and wish to offer ray humble apologies for not having been able to deal with your request for information earlier.
Alta No. 57 S was delivered to Mr. J.H. Bartlett of 27A, Pembridge Villas, Hotting Hill, London, 13. on 21st May, 1936. It was a single seater two litre racing car. Mr. Bartlett is well known to ^ and, as far as I am aware, is still running his sports car sales business from the same address.
The car was successful in winning a few races in this country, but Mr. Bartlett was a much better salesman than he was a racing driver. please keep this observation, which is only my private opinion, to yours self.
Mr Bartlett disposed of the car in about January, 1947, when I believe he sold it to fc!r. B.C. Seville of Neville Lumber Co., Ltd, Spuzzam, British Columbia, with whom I had a certain amount of correspondence, as you have noted*
I enclose under cover the information requested. Kay I wish you every success with you Alta and happy motoring.
Yours sincerely,

Geoffrey Taylor,

[Doug Nye]

The telephone number for Alta was on the Elmbridge exchange, not 'Elmbridce'.  The address line should read Cranleigh, Surrey - not 'Crakleigh'.

 

I believe that's an obscure place down the road constantly wreathed in fumes.

 

DCN

[fivestar]

If my memory is correct R.C.Neville sold Alta 57s to Roy Shadbolt in 1949/50 who fitted a Mercury V8 Flathead. The car was mainly used in HillClimbs in British Columbia  including a run at Pikes Peak. It was later sold to Cameron and thence to Ed Arnold who still has the car.

I have this OCR scan of a letter re Alta 57S

there are some errors in the OCR of the document which I don't have

 

TELEPHONE- ELMBRIDCE 5761
TELEGRAMS   57C1
Directors —
C.TAYLOR.-
L-TAYLOR-
Your Ref-Our Ref

G
please reply to; Wetherell Vines

The Valley, Barhatch Lane, CRAKLEIGH, Surrey,

Dear Mr. Cameron,
I was very interested to receive your letter of the
27th October, 1959, and wish to offer ray humble apologies for not having been able to deal with your request for information earlier.
Alta No. 57 S was delivered to Mr. J.H. Bartlett of 27A, Pembridge Villas, Hotting Hill, London, 13. on 21st May, 1936. It was a single seater two litre racing car. Mr. Bartlett is well known to ^ and, as far as I am aware, is still running his sports car sales business from the same address.
The car was successful in winning a few races in this country, but Mr. Bartlett was a much better salesman than he was a racing driver. please keep this observation, which is only my private opinion, to yours self.
Mr Bartlett disposed of the car in about January, 1947, when I believe he sold it to fc!r. B.C. Seville of Neville Lumber Co., Ltd, Spuzzam, British Columbia, with whom I had a certain amount of correspondence, as you have noted*
I enclose under cover the information requested. Kay I wish you every success with you Alta and happy motoring.
Yours sincerely,

Geoffrey Taylor,

[racingreen]

I've been absorbed in Alta's on and off for the last couple of months researching a couple of articles, one of which has just been published.

 

I've been carpet-bombed with friends Alta material in the most enjoyable type of way, but it's still not clear to me how many cars were built. The various articles have hugely varying numbers. I want to state the number of cars built in the next piece and get it right, hence the summary below for all to attack...

 

I'm happy to wait for The Book in process for the fine detail which flows from each and every car - my attempt at a list is one of first 'owners', my interest is in how many cars he pushed out the factory door...

 

 

Alta Production Numbers : M Bisset : July 17, 2023

 

1.Pre-War

 

1.1 Sports

 

#10 1100 reg 1/11/28 PK4053 G Taylor

#11 1100 w/off Feb 1932

#12 1100 del 12/31 GT1617 Lord Curzon

#14 1100 del 13/6/32 GX2281 Ludovic Ford

#15S 1100 del 13/7/32 PJ7929 JE Finch

#16 1500 KJ8421 RA Gardner 4-seater

#17 1100 del 12/3/33 KV4041 EJ Evans 4-seater

#18 1100 del 15/6/33 APG57 CE Taylor 4-seater

#20 1100 del 5/6/34 EPG903 Patricia Oxenden

#21S 1100 del 19/3/34 FS8673 AJ Cormack

#23S 1100 8/2/35 Leigh esquire

#24S 1100 15/2/35 AER884 PN Whitehead ‘new type cowl and no doors’

#25S 1100 5/5/35 DJP929 AC Lace ‘chain drive to cams’

#54S 1500-2000 24/12/35 FF4515 Dr R Williams (1500-2000, that is, built with a 1.5 engine which was later enlarged/replaced by a 2-litre)

#55S 1500-2000 19/2/36 DPG167 WWS Bennett 

#63S 1500-2000 EJJ703 Hunt & Pink ??

#64S 1500-2000 Fritz Kilgarow (only LHD car built)

#66S 1500-2000 23/7/38 GPL3 K Gammon

#70N 26/6/39 KMP977 B Townsend

 

1.2 Offset-single seaters

 

#52S 20/7/35 AJ Cormack

#53S 11/5/35 EQY8 RR Jackson

#56S 17/4/36 J Wakefield

#57S 2000 21/5/36 JH Bartlett

#58S 2000 F Boyle

#59S 10/9/36 PF Jucker (killed shortly after purchase to Abecassis)

 

 

 

 

 

1.3 Single-seater

 

#61IS 25/4/37 PF Jucker

#62IS complete set of Alta parts to RR Jackson for H Hunter (which I assume was built into a complete car)

#67IS 1/8/39 AH Bendle

#69IS 23/4/39 Lady Mary Grosvenor

 

The single-seaters were fitted with coil springs in vertical sliders with one 1939 car fitted with torsion bars

 

1.4 Other orders, not complete cars

 

#13 April 1932 1100 supercharged engine for RR Jackson’s Horton Special 

#19 8/11/33 Type RI engine D Briault

#22 15/8/34 supercharged engine for Benedetti, Italy

#65 4/10/38 supercharged 2-litre engine for a boat, Watson Esq

#68 28/4/39 1.5-litre supercharged engine to HL Brooke for the Brooke Spl

 

2.Post-War

 

2.1 F1 cars

 

Supercharged 1.5-litres, 2 with two-stage supercharging

 

GP1 1948 G Abecassis

GP2 1949 G Crossley

GP3 1950 J Kelly

GP4 incomplete, became F2/3 below

 

2.2 F2 cars

 

F2/1 1951 FAO Gaze (first entry of an Alta in an F2 race appears to be Gaze @ GP di Monza 13/5/51)

F2/2 1951 Gordon Watson 

F2/3 1951 Ecurie Cowell-Stokes 

F2/4 1952 Oliver Simpson

F2/5 1952 Peter Whitehead

 

 

3. Other random corporate notes

 

.Austin 7, Morris 1000 & Ford Anglia cylinder heads

 

.Alta did WW2 Air Ministry work

 

.Sportscars 19 built 

13 1100s, 2 1500s - one normally aspirated and one supercharged - and four 2-litres all of which were supercharged.

Three cars were 4-seaters (does not reconcile to my list), none of which were supercharged 

MB note – I think this all means as built @ the factory, clearly there were increases in capacity of many cars, very easy to achieve by changing the liners, along the way

 

.F2 engines built

How many I wonder? clearly a few in whole or part to HWM, Cooer and Connaught et al

 

4. Summary of Car Production

 

19 sportscars

6 offset single-seaters

4 pre-war single-seaters

3 GP cars

5 F2 cars

 

37 cars

 

Hello Mark, you are close..... there were 38 complete cars built (including #53S delivered in kit form to R R Jackson). You are missing #19, the Douglas Briault Sports 1100 S/C. It was a complete car, not just an engine.

 

#15 should not have an 'S' suffix.

 

F2/1 first appeared at Easter Goodwood, 26/3/1951 and also ran at the BRDC International Trophy 5/5/1951 before it went to Monza.

 

DSJ was supreme on most Alta matters but GP4 did not become F2/3. GP4 chassis was updated to F2 dimensions and sold to Ireland as a rolling chassis to be built up as a single seat race car and later converted to a two seat sports car.

 

Warmest Regards,

David

Edited by racingreen, 28 July 2023 - 04:20.

[MarkBisset]

Bless you my son!

 

Many thanks David. I'll update the word doco in the next few days and repost it.

 

Via the Murdochs, and Bob King, I've been well infected by the Alta Bug. Driving 21S and 55S in March was a most memorable day.

 

In fact I'm off to visit Betty Lowe, Graeme's widow of course, at Mount Eliza this afternoon specifically to fill in a few 55S dots and scoop up a shot or two of the car as Graeme restored it with the next article due soon.

 

Thanks again, we are all looking forward to your book!

 

Mark

[racingreen]

Thank you Mark.

I am also looking forward to completing the book..... I made a strong start but the last few year's priorities have been a new job, new location and children! But fear not, I will get it finished. It will cover each individual car. I have the chapter on engines and Alta engined specials to complete.

If Betty is on e mail, I would be grateful if you could reconnect us. My e mail is: altacars@hotmail.com

Thanks!

David

[MarkBisset]

Cheers David,

 

I've emailed you and Betty. 

 

To Betty's friends who keep an eye on this forum I can report that she was in sparkling form yesterday, despite recovering from a few weeks of heavy cold.

 

She lives in the same wonderful Roy Grounds (famous Oz architect) designed mid-1930s coastal home she and Graeme moved in to in 1969. While the Altas are gone she still has her Triumph TR4 (TR4A, dunno!?) two dogs and local car club, apart from family to keep her busy.

 

She knows a lot about Altas...am working at getting her on TNF and the Alta Racers FB page.

 

Mark