44 replies to this topic

[pacificquay]

Sad to say Johnny Dumfries has died aged 62.

Statement from the Crichton-Stuart family:

"The indomitable spirit and energy which Johnny brought to his life will be greatly missed, and the immense warmth and love with which he embraced his family.

"His heart was firmly rooted on the Island of Bute where he spent much of his time. Johnny chaired the Board of Mount Stuart Trust from its active inauguration in 2005 when Mount Stuart and its gardens opened to the public, and its rural estate was vested into the charitable trust. He was a moderniser and an inspirational thinker, transitioning a family home to a progressive, working visitor facility and estate.

"His island projects include the internationally respected Bute Fabrics and, most recently, the Kerrylamont Centre for Rural Excellence and Bute Yard. He was a philanthropist through his foundation, particularly focusing on Scotland and the West Coast."

[RogerFrench]

That's a shame, much too young! RIP.

[Gary C]

My goodness. Way too young. RIP.

[D-Type]

Here's an obituary from the [Glasghow] Herald
https://www.heraldsc...e-dies-aged-62/

[Bloggsworth]

Yet another chequered flag I never thought to see. His relative youth makes me all the more grateful for the fullness of my particular glass.

Edited by Bloggsworth, 22 March 2021 - 17:05.

[68targa]

So sorry to hear this news, very sad indeed at such a young age as well.   RIP

[Doug Nye]

I just heard the news.  That is terrible.  Poor chap...  Sincerest condolences to his family and friends.

 

DCN

[charles r]

So unfair. You couldn't meet a nicer man. RIP Johnny.

[JacnGille]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 

[Jack-the-Lad]

How very, very sad.

[sstiel]

A candid interview from 2020.

[bigears]

Some news I wasn't expecting at all. My condolences to his family and friends.

[Richard Jenkins]

Crumbs, even more bad news on top of all the other bad news lately.

 

I think someone on Twitter made the observation that all those who drove the JPS Lotus turbo in 1985 and 1986 are dead already and that brought it home quite significantly.

 

Never managed to meet him but those that did speak of him quite highly and that's good enough for me. Sincere condolences to his family and friends.

[Nick Planas]

Such sad news... and far too young

[AJCee]

Awful news, way too young. Sincere condolences to his friends and family.

[Leif Snellman]

So sad and unexpected. And he was a 1958:er like me 

 

RIP

[Derwent Motorsport]

He did a lot for his estate and it's people and indeed the whole island. One project that didn't quite make it was his effort to run a "Goodwood" style event. I think there were only two. The big problem was getting folk to the island, the ferries were overwhelmed.   At one point he had a F1 Lotus in his hallway.

[Wirra]

RIP

 

I remember how much I enjoyed this at the time.

 

[doc knutsen]

Heartfelt condolences to his family and loved ones.

 

I remember his career well, his exploits in that BP-sponsored Ralt in F3 made me think he would be another great Scottish hit in F1. But being paired with Senna, and at Lotus, it was not to be what I hoped. But I was there for that memorable week-end at La Sarthe in 1988.

A good man, by all accounts. Very sad that he was not given more time.

[sstiel]

Crumbs, even more bad news on top of all the other bad news lately.

 

I think someone on Twitter made the observation that all those who drove the JPS Lotus turbo in 1985 and 1986 are dead already and that brought it home quite significantly.

 

Never managed to meet him but those that did speak of him quite highly and that's good enough for me. Sincere condolences to his family and friends.

Thanks Richard. It was the statman Sean Kelly who said that. Sobering thought. The candid thing Dumfries said during that Beyond the Grid interview was that Team Lotus would have been better off picking Derek Warwick but that didn't happen of course.

Edited by sstiel, 23 March 2021 - 10:26.

[Charlieman]

F3 performance is not always a good indicator of suitability in higher categories, but I always felt that Johnny Dumfries was quick enough in his first year to have earned a more comfortable seat elsewhere. He had a busy life outside motor sport which I trust was fulfilling. Well done.

[garoidb]

Heartfelt condolences to his family and loved ones.

 

I remember his career well, his exploits in that BP-sponsored Ralt in F3 made me think he would be another great Scottish hit in F1. But being paired with Senna, and at Lotus, it was not to be what I hoped. But I was there for that memorable week-end at La Sarthe in 1988.

A good man, by all accounts. Very sad that he was not given more time.

 

He also was a test driver for Ferrari in 1985 and tested for Benetton in the late 1980s. It did seem that he was just on the cusp of getting a fairer break, but it never materialised. There was a lot more to his life in any case. 

 

RIP and condolences to those who knew him.

[Vitesse2]

That's a shame, much too young! RIP.

 

 

My goodness. Way too young. RIP.

Marquesses of Bute seemingly aren't noted for their longevity. Reading the obituary of Johnny in The Times, they noted that his father died aged 60. When you look further back, his grandfather was only 49. The 4th Marquess died aged 65 in 1947, having succeeded to the title aged 19 on the passing of his father at the age of 53. He in turn had become the 3rd Marquess at just six months old when his father died in 1848 aged 54. The 2nd Marquess was the grandson of the 1st Marquess: his father, John Stuart, Lord Mount Stuart, had died at the age of 26, a month or so after a fall from a horse, so the title skipped a generation. The 1st Marquess was actually the longest-lived, reaching three score years and ten in June 1814 before dying four and a half months later.

[Michael Ferner]

 John Stuart, Lord Mount Stuart, had died at the age of 26, a month or so after a fall from a horse

 

Speed's ultimate price... obviously, it was in the genes. RIP, JD

[RobertE]

Very sad news - but he clearly packed a lot in to his short lifespan. RIP...

[Nick Planas]

RIP

 

I remember how much I enjoyed this at the time.

 

And I love dear old Murray just catching himself at 27s, about to say "Dunny Johnfries"... may they both RIP

[PAUL S]

Marquesses of Bute seemingly aren't noted for their longevity. Reading the obituary of Johnny in The Times, they noted that his father died aged 60. When you look further back, his grandfather was only 49. The 4th Marquess died aged 65 in 1947, having succeeded to the title aged 19 on the passing of his father at the age of 53. He in turn had become the 3rd Marquess at just six months old when his father died in 1848 aged 54. The 2nd Marquess was the grandson of the 1st Marquess: his father, John Stuart, Lord Mount Stuart, had died at the age of 26, a month or so after a fall from a horse, so the title skipped a generation. The 1st Marquess was actually the longest-lived, reaching three score years and ten in June 1814 before dying four and a half months later.

What a lot of people wont probably realise is that the Butes turned Cardiff from a sleepy little fishing village in to the busiest port in the world at one time, during the coal era. Quite a distance from the Isle of Bute!

 

Their legacy can be widely found throughout the city in its names and architecture.

 

At the time he raced in the Lotus I had no idea he was a direct descendent of that family, from what I have read he was an all round good guy, I do wonder if he ever visited Cardiff to see the impact his family had on the city. Way to young to go.

[2F-001]

There was a tv documentary, aired in the past couple of weeks or so, about the family and Cardiff. Unfortunately I cannot remember the name of the programme, or the channel that showed it - but it focussed largely on the architectural legacies.

 

Ah... found it: it wasn't a new programme (originally aired in 2017), on BBC,  Bute: The Scot who spent a Welsh fortune.
Available for another six days on iPlayer.

Edited by 2F-001, 24 March 2021 - 08:55.

[Vitesse2]

What a lot of people wont probably realise is that the Butes turned Cardiff from a sleepy little fishing village in to the busiest port in the world at one time, during the coal era. Quite a distance from the Isle of Bute!

 

Their legacy can be widely found throughout the city in its names and architecture.

And, in the way of the TNF world. there is one of those odd further connections to motor sport, since at that time the Butes also owned Luton Hoo - although the present house post-dates their ownership of the estate, which was sold in 1848 after a devastating fire five years previously. The original Robert Adam-designed building had been modified by Robert Smirke and it was rebuilt in that style by the new owner.
 

[BRG]

What a lot of people wont probably realise is that the Butes turned Cardiff from a sleepy little fishing village in to the busiest port in the world at one time, during the coal era

Butetown area of Cardiff.  Never made the connection before!

[PAUL S]

I think that for a short period of time during the coal era, one of the Marques was the richest man in the world. Will have to take a look at that program.

 

They virtually owned the whole of Cardiff and the surrounding area, were not coal magnates, but by controlling the port they had a stranglehold on all the coal coming out of the valleys.

 

South wales coal was mined very deep, so you got a lot of bang for your buck, which was vital for steam ships, once diesel came along that market died as it was expensive to mine. I guess the family just packed up and headed back to Scotland.

 

Be interesting to know why they came to South Wales in the first place.

[ensign14]

Castell Coch (the Red Castle), near Cardiff, is not as remarkably eccentric as Mountstuart, but it is easier for non-Weegies to get to...

 

 

[moffspeed]

Castell Coch - just up the road from my old home in Cardiff. Don't forget that the driveway up to the castle was itself used as a speed hillclimb venue for a few years. A couple of miles further up Rhiwbina Hill you would also get to the site of the pre-war Caerphilly Mountain hill climb course.

 

I have fond memories of watching Dumfries winning Le Mans in 1988 but was more impressed by his manhandling (with subsequent fastest race lap) of the Kouros Sauber the previous year. He seemed to be visibly faster than any other driver that year and his wide approach to the Dunlop  Bridge section virtually placed him in the spectator enclosure.

[Macca]

Marquesses of Bute seemingly aren't noted for their longevity. Reading the obituary of Johnny in The Times, they noted that his father died aged 60. When you look further back, his grandfather was only 49. The 4th Marquess died aged 65 in 1947, having succeeded to the title aged 19 on the passing of his father at the age of 53. He in turn had become the 3rd Marquess at just six months old when his father died in 1848 aged 54. The 2nd Marquess was the grandson of the 1st Marquess: his father, John Stuart, Lord Mount Stuart, had died at the age of 26, a month or so after a fall from a horse, so the title skipped a generation. The 1st Marquess was actually the longest-lived, reaching three score years and ten in June 1814 before dying four and a half months later.

His cousin Charles Crichton-Stuart also died quite young, at 62, of a heart attack in the Phillipines while looking for sunken treasure.

Paul M

[Vitesse2]

I think that for a short period of time during the coal era, one of the Marques was the richest man in the world. Will have to take a look at that program.

 

They virtually owned the whole of Cardiff and the surrounding area, were not coal magnates, but by controlling the port they had a stranglehold on all the coal coming out of the valleys.

 

South wales coal was mined very deep, so you got a lot of bang for your buck, which was vital for steam ships, once diesel came along that market died as it was expensive to mine. I guess the family just packed up and headed back to Scotland.

 

Be interesting to know why they came to South Wales in the first place.

Land acquired through the fourth Earl of Bute's marriage to a granddaughter of the Earl of Pembroke. He also held a Welsh barony. It seems they owned a pretty sizeable chunk of Glamorgan.

 

 

In 1766, he married the Hon. Charlotte Jane, daughter and heiress of Herbert Windsor, 2nd Viscount Windsor, son of Thomas Windsor, 1st Viscount Windsor (see Viscount Windsor) and his wife Lady Charlotte, daughter of Philip Herbert, 7th Earl of Pembroke. Through this marriage vast estates in south Wales came into the Stuart family. In 1776, sixteen years before he succeeded his father in the earldom, he was raised to the Peerage of Great Britain in his own right as Baron Cardiff, of Cardiff Castle in the County of Glamorgan, in recognition of his substantial Welsh estates. In 1796, he was further honoured when he was created Earl of Windsor and Viscount Mountjoy, in the Isle of Wight, revivals of the titles held by his wife's family, and Marquess of the County of Bute.

https://en.wikipedia...arquess_of_Bute

[wolf sun]

How I hate that feeling when I open the forum, and see a thread with a name.

 

RIP Johnny Dumfries, you‘ve left us much too early.

 

   

[john winfield]

Richard Williams' obituary of JD from last week's Guardian:

 

https://www.theguard...mfries-obituary

[MCS]

I often wonder if the Guardian realise how lucky they are to have Richard Williams contributing to their newspaper.  It is only because of him and a few others that I even look at it.  The recent piece on Crystal Palace was an absolute disgrace.

 

Johnny Dumfries had clear talent - that was plainly obvious.  What a shame he had to be saddled with Senna as his "team-mate" when it might have mattered.

[Tim Murray]

Posted on behalf of Weaverbird, with her captions:

Macau GP 1985

Enjoying himself post-race in the Hotel Lisboa, Macau (or pre-race - orange juice?)


Viceroy Dave Price Racing (Reynard 853 VW)


From the Daily Mail, 13th April

[kyle936]

This is a shock, I've only just seen it. He hardly seemed or looked any age at all; apparently it was cancer. Just read the obituary by Richard Williams in The Guardian. Awful well written, as MCS suggested, but it's always sad when, as is often the case, you only learn some things about someone after they die - my knowledge of Johnny's life was sketchy. A few months ago I listened to the 'Beyond the Grid' interview posted by sstiel above and he came across as a very likeable, personable, modest, down to earth character, the kind of person you'd be glad you knew. His win at Le Mans was one of the more epic Le Mans stories and I don't think he got a fair crack of the whip at Lotus but I guess that's why he was there.

 

I live just down the coast from Bute and went around it the year before last on a cycle run (just about everything we've ever done in our lives dates back to 'before last year', doesn't it, with this pandemic) and on the way back on the ferry one of my pals told me I really need to see around Bute House some day - said it's a mindblowing place inside - it's open to the public, or will be again some day. I live closer to Dumfries House, near Cumnock, and although I've never been inside there either I've been around the gardens and they're beautiful. The place was an awful mess, by all accounts (I never saw it then) but it was all 'recreated' through the Prince's Foundation, a charity run by the Prince of Wales, a few years ago. If you're ever in the area on a nice day it's a very pleasant way to spend a couple of hours, even just the gardens, and they're free to enter.

 

Curiously, the only time I ever saw Murray Walker, another sad recent loss, was on the ferry to Bute in 2003 for the Mount Stuart Classic, Johnny Dumfries's equivalent of the Goodwood Festival of Speed. The ferry was a great leveller that day; unless you had a helicopter it was the only way to travel, which was sadly the event's undoing - the logistics just couldn't be made to work and it was never repeated, although it was scheduled to be but cancelled (I think - correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember it happening again - Richard Williams suggests it did but I don't recall). Murray was sitting among other passengers with a contented look on his face, I suspect appreciative that they were respecting his privacy and not pestering him too much - as others pointed out in the thread about Murray, he was one of these folk you felt you knew even though you'd never met, and I guess that could get wearing. He was wearing a waxed cotton jacket; he'd obviously heard the weather forecast because there was torrential rain in the afternoon - the event was more or less rained off, eventually, which was a shame.

 

At Mount Stuart I also saw Robbie Coltrane - a big lad - with his classic Ford Mustang. I've got the book he wrote to accompany the TV series 'B-Road Britain' where he drove a Jaguar XK150S from England to Scotland through all the villages and, boy, that fellow can write - if he hadn't been an actor he would be a writer, for sure, although he still could be, of course. He ended the trip helping to build a replica of Kirkpatrick MacMillan's first bicycle at Drumlanrig Castle in Dumfriesshire, another worthwhile place to visit.

 

Lastly, can't not mention Takuma Sato, even though Doug Nye probably wishes I wouldn't after Sato's enragingly predictable desecration of a Lotus 49 at Monaco (I remember reading about it on here and sadly haven't been able to forget it). Anyway, the little fellow made a lot of friends at Mount Stuart, wringing a BAR-Honda's neck around the estate roads in a rainstorm - he put on a terrific show, especially considering he really didn't need to. Mind you, if he really had wrung its neck or stuffed it into a tree it would have been no loss - I don't think I've ever *liked* an F1 car since they all got erections in the mid-'90s, and today's monstrosities are just perversions, an obscene travesty, almost a parody of what F1 should be, whatever that is, but to say it's lost its way would be an understatement, IMHO. Still we've got the new regs to look forward to, Ferrari coming back to Le Mans (maybe also Porsche), and the vaccine, so things might look up, you never know.

[sstiel]

Thanks for the mention @kyle936 https://the-race.com...-the-f1-ladder/ A good piece by Sam Smith too.

[Derwent Motorsport]

I think there were tow Mount Stuart events but the ferries were the problem.   I think at one point Johnny had a F1 Lotus in the hall of the house.

[Odseybod]

The ferries were/are also a blessing, at least for the locals. A former Innkeeper near us Darn Sarf wanted a change when his lease ran out so bought a pub on the Isle of Bute - we went to help him celebrate his first Hogmannay there and it was not a sober occasion. But the story was going around that at the time,  bars on the mainland and on Bute were required to shut in the afternoon, whereas the one on the ferry could stay open. Needless to say, some determined locals decided one lunchtime to adjourn to the ferry after Time had been called for a last last one, or maybe another last last one on the return journey, in fact why leave the boat at all when the bar's still open ... The big challenge was apparently establishing which side of the water they were on when time finally came to leave.

 

Incidentally, Dumfries House is indeed a wonderful place these days and much involved with training schemes for local young people, as you'd expect with HRH's involvement. The huge kitchen garden is linked to a training kitchen - so students can learn how to grow stuff as well as cook it - and there's also a fully equipped textile studio (a quiet puff for the Weavers' Company here) where even the young males of the species can learn how to use a sewing machine, before going on to design and make clothes, hopefully putting them on the path to a job with a local textile company.

[ensign14]

Mountstuart House is delightfully eccentric inside...alas when I went in 2011 interior photography was verboten.  Don't know if that has changed now, but Arran and Bute are both fine parts of the world to visit. 

 

[sstiel]

Karun Chandhok got to speak to Johnny as part of this feature for Sky F1: