41 replies to this topic

[pacificquay]

Ex-F1 driver and Le Mans winner Johnny Dumfries has died aged 62 after a "short illness".

 

RIP - a decent racer whose reputation was unfairly tarnished by his 86 season at Lotus which was always stacked against him.

[Coral]

Oh no, that's really sad. 62 is no age at all. RIP.

[MKSixer]

RIP, Mr. Dumfries. 

 

I must say that 62 is too young but I hope you had a fulfilling life!!  Best Regards to the remaining loved ones.  

[F1matt]

RIP John Bute, take out the single year as Ayrton's whipping boy he did have a stellar career, outstanding in F3 and winning Le Mans with Jaguar. It must have been a short illness because I read he had been charged with breaching covid rules in January. 

[Alan Lewis]

Very unexpected news. The Marquessate of Bute passes to the eighth holder.

[cpbell]

Ex-F1 driver and Le Mans winner Johnny Dumfries has died aged 62 after a "short illness".

 

RIP - a decent racer whose reputation was unfairly tarnished by his 86 season at Lotus which was always stacked against him.

Sad indeed. 

 

RIP John Bute, take out the single year as Ayrton's whipping boy he did have a stellar career, outstanding in F3 and winning Le Mans with Jaguar. It must have been a short illness because I read he had been charged with breaching covid rules in January. 

I wonder whether it might have been Covid.

[absinthedude]

Sad and unexpected news

[pacificquay]

Unlikely, given he's been on Bute since January and case levels there are pretty much 0

[cpbell]

Unlikely, given he's been on Bute since January and case levels there are pretty much 0

People have passed away from Covid after a lengthy period of infection; of course, it's none of our business.

[P123]

Ex-F1 driver and Le Mans winner Johnny Dumfries has died aged 62 after a "short illness".

 

RIP - a decent racer whose reputation was unfairly tarnished by his 86 season at Lotus which was always stacked against him.

 

Seems it was cancer. 

 

Very sad and unexpected.

 

 Never judged him by his F1 career.  And he brought F1 cars to Scotland with the Mount Stuart Classic 10+ years ago.

[d246]

That's sad. I listened to the Beyond the Grid podcast featuring him. Interesting, colourful character and V fast.

[cpbell]

Seems it was cancer. 

 

Very sad and unexpected.

 

 Never judged him by his F1 career.  And he brought F1 cars to Scotland with the Mount Stuart Classic 10+ years ago.

Maybe that's why he wasn't as concerned about catching Covid - how sad.

[jjcale]

Sadly, I only remember the 1986 season .... I was not here then and had no other real reason to be interested in him back then - or for most of the time since.

 

But I think the fact that he was Senna's team mate is a kind of honour ... no matter how it turned out.   ... even back then we knew Senna was very special. 

 

RIP.

[PayasYouRace]

RIP John Colum Crichton-Stuart, 7th Marquess of Bute.

 

[Risil]

What a shame -- I was not expecting that news at all.

 

Somewhat typically of 1980s junior formulae, he actually had more success in F1 in 1986 than he had in F3000 the year before. But ultimately if he he'd scored podiums for Lotus he'd probably still have been replaced by Nakajima for 1987, who Honda really wanted to place in F1.

 

As F1Matt said, the highlight of his racing career was the 1988 Le Mans win with the big Jaguar V12.

[JacnGille]

NOOOOOOOOOOOO 

[pacificquay]

Maybe that's why he wasn't as concerned about catching Covid - how sad.

 

His covid rule breach was travelling to get back to Bute, which probably makes sense now...

[PlatenGlass]

Ex-F1 driver and Le Mans winner Johnny Dumfries has died aged 62 after a "short illness".

RIP - a decent racer whose reputation was unfairly tarnished by his 86 season at Lotus which was always stacked against him.

Sad news, and I agree that having to drive what was effectively a cardboard cut-out painted like a Lotus wasn't really fair on him. Still a Le Mans winner and not many can say that.

[cpbell]

His covid rule breach was travelling to get back to Bute, which probably makes sense now...

Absolutely.

[PlayboyRacer]

Very sad news. Way too young.

[ensign14]

Sad news, and I agree that having to drive what was effectively a cardboard cut-out painted like a Lotus wasn't really fair on him. Still a Le Mans winner and not many can say that.

Significant that his best results came at tracks where nobody had much (or any) experience.  He and Nannini were the only rookies in the 1986 field, a very difficult year to be thrown in at the deep end.  RIP.

[absinthedude]

Significant that his best results came at tracks where nobody had much (or any) experience.  He and Nannini were the only rookies in the 1986 field, a very difficult year to be thrown in at the deep end.  RIP.

 

He was also guaranteed 2nd class service in every way....Lotus were effectively a one car team that year with all their efforts behind Senna. Nobody should judge his abilities behind the wheel on his performances in F1. 

[ensign14]

He was also guaranteed 2nd class service in every way....Lotus were effectively a one car team that year with all their efforts behind Senna. Nobody should judge his abilities behind the wheel on his performances in F1. 

Indeed...the better way to think of him is that, in the best era of sportscar racing since the 1950s, and after that season for Lotus, both the up-and-coming Sauber team and the weight-of-expectation Jaguar team recruited him.  And of course he was one of the trio to get that Le Mans win.  The last Jaguar hope with the sportscar royalty of Stuck, Bell, Ludwig, and the 962 ready to pounce.

[SB]

RIP    !!

 

RIP, Mr. Dumfries.   

 

Just curious, as I am an Asian and not really familiar with British culture. Would people really address him as "Mr Dumfries" in the daily life, say when greeting him in a restaurant or at the start of a business meeting ? 

[Weaverbird]

Very sad.  Such a colourful character in the days when he didn't want anyone to know about his heritage, so race entries were all as Johnny Dumfries (painter and decorator from Fulham) -  he even adopted a South London accent - and his wonderful cousin, Charlie Crichton-Stuart (pilot, racing driver and eventually sponsorship co-ordinator for Williams with Saudia and friend to Frank and to Alan Jones, then director of public affairs for FORCE/Haas F1.For a while married to actress Shirley-Ann Field).  Died of a heart attack at the age of...62

Johnny also enjoyed several races at the Macau GP (F3) and knew how to have fun with the terrific after-race parties and dinners.

[Alan Lewis]

RIP !!


Just curious, as I am an Asian and not really familiar with British culture. Would people really address him as "Mr Dumfries" in the daily life, say when greeting him in a restaurant or at the start of a business meeting ?

He was born as the Earl of Dumfries, and became Marquess of Bute in 1993, so he would have been "Lord Dumfries" or "Lord Bute".

Though as Weaverbird says, he played down his background whilst trying to make it in the racing game, so it's possible he wouldn't have been in the least offended by someone calling him "mister".

[ensign14]

Just curious, as I am an Asian and not really familiar with British culture. Would people really address him as "Mr Dumfries" in the daily life, say when greeting him in a restaurant or at the start of a business meeting ? 

Officially, when you're speaking to a Marquess or Earl, you refer to them as "my Lord".  In practice they will do what anyone does - introduce themselves by whatever name they prefer.

[messy]

That's sad. I always found his background fascinating, and he achieved so much beyond that one F1 season where he really didn't stand a chance.

 

62 is no age. This last week and a bit has sucked.

[PlatenGlass]

RIP !!


Just curious, as I am an Asian and not really familiar with British culture. Would people really address him as "Mr Dumfries" in the daily life, say when greeting him in a restaurant or at the start of a business meeting ?

Johnny Boy!

[PlayboyRacer]

I listened this evening to his "beyond the grid" podcast once more. Highly recommend it, Johnny was a very engaging, honest character with great humour and a brilliant outlook on life. RIP

[Risil]

He was born as the Earl of Dumfries, and became Marquess of Bute in 1993, so he would have been "Lord Dumfries" or "Lord Bute".

Though as Weaverbird says, he played down his background whilst trying to make it in the racing game, so it's possible he wouldn't have been in the least offended by someone calling him "mister".

 

Thank you! I am in theory familiar with British culture but I was stumped by SB's question.

[SpeedRacer`]

Very sad, really enjoyed his Beyond the Grid podcast more than I thought I would.

 

It's proving to be a very sad time in Motorsports over the last couple of weeks.

[PayasYouRace]

Officially, when you're speaking to a Marquess or Earl, you refer to them as "my Lord". In practice they will do what anyone does - introduce themselves by whatever name they prefer.

What would be the way to refer to him in the third person?

[ensign14]

Doesn't matter, they can't hear you.

[F1matt]

Indeed...the better way to think of him is that, in the best era of sportscar racing since the 1950s, and after that season for Lotus, both the up-and-coming Sauber team and the weight-of-expectation Jaguar team recruited him.  And of course he was one of the trio to get that Le Mans win.  The last Jaguar hope with the sportscar royalty of Stuck, Bell, Ludwig, and the 962 ready to pounce.

 

 

It must have been quite an honour to be part of that Jaguar team on the top step of the podium, it was almost billed as England Vs Germany and the event did have a football game atmosphere, plenty of drunken Brits and Germans (I am sure Derek Bell tells a story of Brits throwing Lager bottles at the Porsches at one point) to support the two marques and Jaguar finally breaking the Porsche stranglehold. 

[Spillage]

Sorry to hear this. We've lost a few people already and we're only in March Thoughts are with his family and friends.

[Henri Greuter]

Sad news about a driver who'se career was sadly shortened and ruined within a single year because of being at the wrong place at the wrong time because of having the right nationality.

 

RIP

[FLB]

One thing that very few people discuss is that he had a very random drive in a support race for the 1992 IndyCar Molson Indy of Vancouver. Was he trying to find something in CART?

 

http://autocourse.ca...m/1992-w/gm.htm

 

RIP, of course... 

[Risil]

One thing that very few people discuss is that he had a very random drive in a support race for the 1992 IndyCar Molson Indy of Vancouver. Was he trying to find something in CART?

http://autocourse.ca...m/1992-w/gm.htm

RIP, of course...

The BBC obit suggests Dumfries retired at the end of 1991, which is evidently incorrect, but others implied that his retirement was linked to his father's death in 1993, as he inherited the management of the family estates. I guess that fits the 1992 Indy Lights outing better.

[LucaP]

Wasn't he painting lately?

[FLB]

The BBC obit suggests Dumfries retired at the end of 1991, which is evidently incorrect, but others implied that his retirement was linked to his father's death in 1993, as he inherited the management of the family estates. I guess that fits the 1992 Indy Lights outing better.

It wasn't Indy Lights, it was even more random: GM Players, a Canadian national series with spec Chevrolet Camaros. It's the series that produced Ron Fellows.

[Amphicar]

What would be the way to refer to him in the third person?

His Lordship or The Marquess, I think - must look out my copies of Burke's Peerage and the Almanach de Gotha.