486 replies to this topic

[Imateria]

Re: Nato, i thought if you ran out of energy the car went into ‘limp mode’ as per Werhlein in Mexico?

My understanding is that the driver can keep their foot after they hit 0 but will get a disqualified, you have to lift.

[Vielleicht]

Re: Nato, i thought if you ran out of energy the car went into ‘limp mode’ as per Werhlein in Mexico?

Wehrlein had a time penalty applied for that one IIRC and finished 5th rather than 2nd, so even limp mode won't save you.

 

They want to avoid people randomly slowing down in front of each other in  the closing stages and causing an accident.

[Imateria]

Wehrlein had a time penalty applied for that one IIRC and finished 5th rather than 2nd, so even limp mode won't save you.

 

They want to avoid people randomly slowing down in front of each other in  the closing stages and causing an accident.

That was for cutting the chicane and not stopping before rejoining if I remember right.

[M66R]

Wehrlein had a time penalty applied for that one IIRC and finished 5th rather than 2nd, so even limp mode won't save you.

They want to avoid people randomly slowing down in front of each other in the closing stages and causing an accident.

The 5 second penalty was for cutting the corner/chicane earlier in the lap.

He didn't get a penalty for over use of power as he hit 0% and coasted over the line.

Presumably NATO hit 0% but kept his foot down. But as normal with FE, nothing has been communicated to the fans properly.

[Vielleicht]

Time to get rid of these maximum energy rules.

Why?

 

It's literally no different from a max fuel load limit/leaving a minimum for post race sampling.

[Ben1445]

Love how everybody seems to want all the rules removed rather than simply expecting teams to follow them 

[Vielleicht]

The 5 second penalty was for cutting the corner/chicane earlier in the lap.

He didn't get a penalty for over use of power as he hit 0% and coasted over the line.

Presumably NATO hit 0% but kept his foot down. But as normal with FE, nothing has been communicated to the fans properly.

My mistake. Seems like enough people here remembered correctly.
 

Edited by Vielleicht, 11 April 2021 - 12:15.

[Imateria]

Huh, seems Venturi didn't deduct enough energy after the safety car, thats what the DQ is for.

[M66R]

Huh, seems Venturi didn't deduct enough energy after the safety car, thats what the DQ is for.

I mean...OK

[M66R]

Why?

It's literally no different from a max fuel load limit/leaving a minimum for post race sampling.

Because it's all fluff that detracts from the ontrack racing

[thegamer23]

 

 

 

Driver's Championship after 4 Races

 

It's wide open!

 

 

 

 

See you in Valencia, in just two weeks for another Double Header! 
First ever race on a traditional circuit. 

Than back in the streets of Monaco in early May!

Formula E is gaining momentum!

 

 

Edited by thegamer23, 11 April 2021 - 12:20.

[Imateria]

Because it's all fluff that detracts from the ontrack racing

You're talking nonsense at this point, there's no sympathy for a car that runs out of fuel before the line, and none for someone that runs out of energy. Everyone knows how much they've got and what they've got to do to avoid running out before the line.

[M66R]

You're talking nonsense at this point, there's no sympathy for a car that runs out of fuel before the line, and none for someone that runs out of energy. Everyone knows how much they've got and what they've got to do to avoid running out before the line.

Excuse me?

[Vielleicht]

Because it's all fluff that detracts from the ontrack racing

What alternative solution would you propose with the current techncial package?

 

The maximum energy limit is there for a reason. To my knowledge no one's invented a battery with unlimited capacity, and if you allow them to use every last bit of charge drivers could suddenly slow to a crawl around the final corners and casue an accident risk on these tight tracks (a la Lotterer in Paris 2018).

 

If a driver finds themself tight on energy at the end it is becasue of their on track racing, not in spite of it.

Edited by Vielleicht, 11 April 2021 - 12:33.

[Vielleicht]

You're talking nonsense at this point, there's no sympathy for a car that runs out of fuel before the line, and none for someone that runs out of energy. Everyone knows how much they've got and what they've got to do to avoid running out before the line.

I supose there was Rossi's Indy 500 win which was fantastic, but the racing there is much more about maintining momentum and not quite the same risk case in my view. Also they have refuelling.

 

Meanwhile F1 have to leave a reserve amount of fuel don't they? If they go below it they will be disqulified.
 

Edited by Vielleicht, 11 April 2021 - 12:32.

[MattK9]

What alternative solution would you propose with the current techncial package?

The maximum energy limit is there for a reason. To my knowledge no one's invented a battery with unlimited capacity, and if you allow them to use every last bit of charge drivers would suddenly slow to a crawl around the final corners and casue an accident risk on these tight tracks (a la Lotterer in Paris 2018).

If a driver finds themself tight on energy at the end it is becasue of their on track racing, not in spite of it.

I dont think he should have been disqualified. A time penalty would be more appropriate. Say 10 seconds for every 0.1 kWh overconsumption.

[Ben1445]

I suppose it's that (not exactly new) debate about whether your penalties are corrective in nature or act mainly as a deterrent. 

[Ben1445]

Valencia in two weeks should be interesting. A taste of what FE can be like on permanent venues should be very informative one way or another. 

 

Looking forward to it. 

[Muppetmad]

Lovely stuff from Stoffel today - definitely making up for the misfortunes of yesterday. It was a relief to finish the race under green. Some great racing throughout, alongside some silliness - all in all though, a good race!

[SenorSjon]

You're talking nonsense at this point, there's no sympathy for a car that runs out of fuel before the line, and none for someone that runs out of energy. Everyone knows how much they've got and what they've got to do to avoid running out before the line.

When you're out of fuel, you're out, not like this. You can also hardly make overuse up if a SC or FCY gets you an energy deduction.

Make the race a fixed number of laps and no deductions, I actually liked when they went balls out when they had power in reserve after a SC.

Racing standards still a hint of BTCC. Very weird penalties galore and was Frijns sleeping? He lost 6s in the first lap or so and didn't take the 3rd boost. Very weird to see him and De Vries still high in the standings after a meh weekend.

[Kev00]

What actually happened with all the energy levels on the last lap? They were behind the safety car for about 8 minutes, then when the clock hit zero the energy went from around 20-24% to 4-6% on most cars and Jack was banging on about some drivers on less than 1%. Are they remotely accurate or is this just some attempt at false drama?

[MattK9]

What actually happened with all the energy levels on the last lap? They were behind the safety car for about 8 minutes, then when the clock hit zero the energy went from around 20-24% to 4-6% on most cars and Jack was banging on about some drivers on less than 1%. Are they remotely accurate or is this just some attempt at false drama?

At the end of every safety car period there is a reduction of available energy allowed based on the number of laps the safety car was out for.

[SenorSjon]

Yup, giving the guys who had used more no chance to compensate. I've read there are again a host of penalties applied, Nato DSQ.

[Kev00]

At the end of every safety car period there is a reduction of available energy allowed based on the number of laps the safety car was out for.

That just seems so stupid to reduce the power. Was there ever really an issue the way it was before? I wouldn’t mind so much if they did what BTCC did and add laps or time to the race but it just seems silly to reduce the energy.

[Ben1445]

That just seems so stupid to reduce the power [energy]. Was there ever really an issue the way it was before? I wouldn’t mind so much if they did what BTCC did and add laps or time to the race but it just seems silly to reduce the energy.

 

The criticism before was that SC/FCY/VSCs meant that the end of the races became flat-out, processional and anti-climactic. Their intent is to try and make sure the driver skill of energy efficient driving is consistently a feature in every race rather than it being a feature only races when there happens to not be any SC/FCY/VSC. 

 

Adding laps or time would have the same effect... other than that it would interfere with the allotted broadcast windows. Hence the choice of an energy reduction. 

Edited by Ben1445, 11 April 2021 - 14:07.

[MattK9]

That just seems so stupid to reduce the power. Was there ever really an issue the way it was before? I wouldn’t mind so much if they did what BTCC did and add laps or time to the race but it just seems silly to reduce the energy.

Yes it was a problem. A tense battle for the lead with energy conversation could be ruined by a safety car. People would over consume gambling on a safety car.

There were enough arm chair critics on twitter to make them change the system.

As you can see the system still isnt perfect. Extra laps or pausing the clock would be better

[balmybaldwin]

FE needs to drop this idea of having to fit into broadcast windows, or at least be more flexible about it.  TBF we don't need the 30 minutes guff at the beginning or more than 10 mins of after race analysis, so make it a set number of laps and if it runs a bit late have less analysis. The fans are being robbed of too much racing. At the very least start teh clock when the track goes green.  Yesterday we lost more than 10% of the race time because we started behind a mini.

 

They should also stop using safety cars. If a FCY won't cover it Just red flag it stop the clock, turn the cars off then go again when the track is clear.

 

I think some of the marshalling and track control this weekend was well below par.  50M of banner on the edge of the racing line throughout super pole yesterday is just unacceptable.  Failing to clear the track of debris (even just pick up the big bits ffs) during FCY or SC periods is also unacceptable especially when we often have races messed up by SCs to pick up debris off-line).  It takes far too long for Marshals to reach damaged cars - I think they are complacent with this. We've seen several big shunts this weekend and the last race where marshalls seem slow to get to the cars, and yellow flags come out slowly e.g. I think it was when Rast crashed we watched 2 cars come through a few seconds later at race pace having to take avoiding action before the yellows were shown.

 

Overall a good couple of races, but the lack of actual green flag racing is getting annoying.

[thegamer23]

Race 2 Highlights!

 

One thing i'm noticing around the web is that i'm finding clips from various broadcasters around the world
Never happened in the previous seasons.

Now I've found clips from the race with German, Spanish, Brazilian, Italian & French commentatary, so i think it's a good indicator that the FE TV coverage is getting quite bigger!

Edited by thegamer23, 11 April 2021 - 15:34.

[f1paul]

Overall I enjoyed the weekend's E L E C T R I C racing.

 

Preferred yesterday's race and the penalties are annoying but if you break the rules, you should be penalised right?

 

Timed races need to go, and I think adding 1-2 laps rather than getting rid of energy is the solution. Or add 2-4 minutes if they insist on keeping timed races.

 

I definitely feel I'm into the season now, was a little underhyped before Saudi Arabia but FE has definitely grabbed my attention now. I look forward to Valencia in a couple weeks!

[balage06]

Just watched the race, this is how I like my racing, a crushing Merc victory with no competition!  Kidding.  Enjoyed this race more than yesterday's, probably because not the egoistic morons were fighting for the victory this time. It was a good race from Nato, shame about the penalty. Cassidy's race went downhill pretty quickly, maybe a bit of inexperience? This is what I was mentioning, lack of experience on interational ground. de Vries was a little overambitious today, meanwhile Wehrlein and Günther, kinda the opposite? From that cringey Electro Schumi to Mr. Also Has Been There? But now that I mentioned it, he will win the next one, I'm sure.

[thegamer23]

Di Grassi: Buemi "incredibly stupid" move in Rome FE

https://www.autospor...ome-fe/6206043/

 

Ah, the never ending Di Grassi / Buemi rivarly!
 

 

 

Meanwhile, Happy Faces in the Mercedes Garage.

 

 

 

Who was your driver of the weekend? 

I'd say, Stoffel Vandoorne was the most consistent performer over the two days.

He was there yesterday, he was there today.

 

And this doesn't happen very often in FE!

 

My conclusions:

 

Best Driver: Vandoorne // Most consistent driver over the two days

Worst Driver: Turvey // Ruined his and others weekend with that FP1 brainfade
Best Rookie: Nato // Despite the DQ, i think his race today was exceptional

Best Team: Mercedes // They look like the overall benchmark, but it's tight.

Worst Team: Audi // Too much tech problems & crashes in a weekend. 

Best moment: This morning's quali on the wet was amazing, edge on the seat stuff! 
Worst moment: Safety Car ending of Race 1
Race in a sentence: Indycar!

 

Race Rating: Race 1 ( 7/10)  Race 2 (8/10)
This venue has potential & personality, and i can't wait to see it in the dry with some good old Sun. 

 

I would make the chicane a little faster tho, Punta del Este-esque.

And move the start/finish line to the straight after the downhill section. 

Edited by thegamer23, 11 April 2021 - 16:03.

[MattK9]

After Di Grassi's ridiculous move in London in the last race of Season 2 where he blatantly took out Buemi at the start, he gets zero sympathy from me for being taken out. I noticed that no-one really cared yesterday when his car broke down from the lead.

It would have been nice to see the whole Di Grassi/Buemi incident from Buemi's POV but the TV director showed the replay from about 1 second from before the impact. Not enough to see what actually happened. And the onboard shots appeared to be in 360p with some digital encoding bug.

Generally TV direction and informing the viewer of what is happening has been poor this weekend.

[WouterF1]

Nyck de Vries received a hefty penalty from the stewards after the second race in Rome. The Dutchman has been found guilty of causing the crash

with Sam Bird and therefore has to give up five grid places in Valencia.

 

The Dutchman  has received a grid penalty of five places for causing an accident, the Mercedes team confirms to GPFans.
As a result, he will be moved five places back during the first ePrix in Valencia. In addition, he also received two penalty points on his license.

 

https://www.gpfans.c...gn=Headliner.nl

Edited by WouterF1, 11 April 2021 - 17:42.

[WouterF1]

Nyck de Vries carries a grid penalty into the first Valencia Formula E race thanks to the late Rome E-Prix crash that gave points leader Sam Bird a swollen hand.

https://www.motorspo...-clash/6206427/

[thegamer23]

Casually strolling around YouTube i've found the two full races in Brazilian   

In case someone missed it. 

 

 

[BRG]

Good track - even the trademark FE compulsory hairpin and chicane were sensible and driveable.  Still one section unacceptably narrow though, but if all FE's street tracks were like this, I would be less inclined to bang on about them needing to race on permanent tracks.  Horrible area of Rome though - I don't associate the Eternal City with ugly office blocks. 

 

Mostly good racing albeit with a few of the usual brainfarts, generally by the usual suspects.  Very disappointed about Cassidy but his day(s) will come.

 

The penalties seem to be the big issue though.  All these technical penalties are a problem - if we, as enthusiasts, are struggling to make sense of them, how must they look to the casual viewer?  You know, the casual viewers that they are trying to attract.  Your new favourite driver crosses the line but gets hammered for having 0% power left. Yes, there is a explanation, but it is so abstruse that the Man on the Clapham Omnibus is simply going to turn over to watch the rugby next time.  FE need to get to grips with this urgently.

[sgtkate]

Lovely stuff from Stoffel today - definitely making up for the misfortunes of yesterday. It was a relief to finish the race under green. Some great racing throughout, alongside some silliness - all in all though, a good race!

Yep I gave him a hard time on Sat but he was superb on Sunday and well deserving of the win.