35 replies to this topic

[Jon Allen]

Can anyone tell me the character of Alain Prost's relationship with Ayrton Senna at the time of Senna's death? I know of course that they had a bitter rivalry as drivers, but I recently saw a very moving photo of Prost as a pallbearer at Senna's funeral and wondered if they had reconciled personally by the time of the tragic events at Imola '94?

What an amazing period for F1 when they were driving against each other, both as teammates and on opposing teams.

[Drinky]

Supposedly at Imola 1994, Prost (there as a commentator for French TV) was paid a visit by Senna who praised him and Prost was somewhat surprised I believe. Maybe someone else knows more?

[coyoteBR]

Yes, around 93/94 the respect they had for each other was stronger than the diferences.

BTW:
Short after Senna's death, brazilian magazine Grid - isn't published anymore, a pity - interviewed ex-f1 driver Chico Serra.

At some point, they asked something about Senna's Funeral. He gave some interesting answers:

Serra- ...now, at the cemitery we saw a person that never liked Senna - quite the contrary, probably - that came from far away to pose as a good guy carring the casket.

Grid - Are you talking about Prost?
Serra- Of course not! Prost was a gentleman. He came to pay a homage to the great champion Senna was.

Grid - That means you are talking about...
Serra- Enought talking about this subject, because I know people will say I'm just with hard feelings against an ex-employer of mine.
.
.
.
Feel free to make any illation.

[Bernd]

Perhaps you could list the pallbearers so we could have a guess.

[Jon Allen]

Oh, I know who it is, I think. Unfortunately, I can't remember where I saw the picture, so I can't list the pallbearers. If it is indeed who I think it is, does anyone know why he would be seen as "posing" as a good guy? I'm basing my guess on who Serra drove for, which I found at Forix.com.

I'm glad to hear that they had respect for each other at the end. It would of course have been a pity for them not to have, considering that they were certainly the two greatest drivers of their era, and arguably in the history of the sport. Thanks for the replies.

[Bernd]

Emmo

Well how about that!

[Barry Lake]

This Chico Serra comment doesn't surprise me.

I have been to more funerals in the past 10 years than I would like, and the one thing that has stood out in my mind from each one is the number of hypocrites who put in an appearance.

They always seem to be more prominent, more keen to be seen there, than the genuine mourners. Sometimes they had no real connection to the deceased, but were there purely to be seen by the right people.

Worst of all are those who, before the deceased's death, were quick to put him down then, at the funeral, will make an impassioned speech about what a great friend and wonderful person he was. I have found it disgusting.

I am seriously considering making up a list of people not welcome at my funeral and having a bouncer on the door to prevent their entry.

As an aside to the above, I once was fortunate enough to be invited to dinner with a small group of about nine people, which included Niki Lauda, Keke Rosberg and Nelson Piquet, plus a couple of managers, PR people, and one other writer. The most common phrase during the long gathering was "Don't you ever write that!", but one thing I can say is that Rosberg asked after Chico Serra, obviously genuinely interested in his welfare after he had retired from motor racing. In the ensuing conversation it was obvious that all present held him in the highest regard as a person. Far more than is normally the case when drivers speak of other drivers.

So I believe Serra's comments would be based on genuine beliefs, not merely on ill-feelings from a bad relationship with that person.

...and I don't know, yet, who he was talking about. But I would like to, if anyone can enlighten me, or narrow it down to a couple of "suspects".

[Barry Lake]

Ah!

Seems the answer came through before I finished my post.

Yes, that appears to add up.

[coyoteBR]

I knew you would get this conclusion.

More: "people who came from far away". Meaning someone who's living in North America, pehaps? I didn't want to post any other hint because Chico Serra didn't spoke openly on the interview, but when I read it by the first time, I had the same reaction Bernd just showed.

The reasons? One will only know asking the right people off-the-record.

Slightly off-topic On his Lotus days, Nelson Piquet was mad with the team and press in general. He then said to one of the few journalists he trusted he waas thinking about retiring, getting on his boat for a year and writting a book about F-1. But, doing so, there would be so many people hating him that he would not be able to put a foot in any race track of the world again.

more off-topic Phrase of Boris Casoy, brazilian Journalist: "If I decided to tell everything I know, lots of people would like to kill me. Or pehaps I would kill myself."

[fines]

Well, it seems quite obvious the quote's refering to Emmo, but didn't he and Senna have a very friendly realtionship? I mean, wasn't it Fittipaldi who arranged the CART test for Senna in early 1993?

[Mila]

I'm am almost positive that Wilson Fittipaldi was a pallbearer as well, but I suspect--from what little I know of the circumstances at the Fittipaldi team--that Serra's comments were directed toward Emmo.

Barry Lake, Rosberg apparently held high regard for Serra. I recall the Finn stating (in his autobiography?) that the Brazilian never had a real opportunity to display his super talent.

aside from beating Prost, I don’t think that Senna was particularly motivated in 93. for me, their rapprochement around the end of 93 derived more so from a relief that they no longer competed on the racetrack rather than a genuine like or respect for one another. I doubt that they would have been chums if both were destined for Williams in 94.

for me, it was big of Prost to attend; there was a lot of ill will in their relationship. I wonder if he did it for the good of the sport. regardless, I imagine that the Frenchman’s disposition would have been different if his rival’s demise came as a result of Suzuka 90.

also, wasn’t Piquet critical of Prost for attending the funeral?

[Ray Bell]

Someone might well recall Donald Kingsley Thomson after the death of the well-respected Glynn Scott?

Written for Racing Car News as a kind of intro to a tribute after the tragedy at Lakeside, it sticks with me, and it highlights exactly what you have said about hypocrasy.

AN obituary is not a biography, designed to paint the definitive picture of a man, with his faults evaluated equally with his virtues. The convention of such tributes often tends to invest those who have gone with a sort of aura of unalloyed goodness, which is at odds with all human experience; and hence obituaries sometimes must be read for what they omit as much as what they include.

It is not so with Glynn Scott....

This is so true, all too true...

I've not attended so many funerals, and the two salient ones were those of Alan Jones (THE Alan Jones, as he would say, Austin Healey Alan Jones) and Norm Saville. None of these things seemed to be present on those occasions, but they were more universally respected and not so likely to have been in contentious positions as are the people the subject of this thread.

Now, my funeral, that might well be a place for such things to happen...

As a matter of interest, the death of Mike Kable brought out the greatest load of obits I have ever seen. For those not Australian, Mike was a journalist who spent much of his career as the Motoring Editor of The Australian newspaper, so held a somewhat priviledged position and moved in the best circles.

The point is, however, that Mike's death brought out all these people who were eager to pin down his faults... always turning up late, believing he was fluent in Italian when few Ities understood him... that sort of thing. Yet they gave him credit for things I doubt he achieved, but maybe I don't know enough about these things.

Nobody mentioned his driving, which I thought was strange, and many others agreed.

He would be quite good to ride with if he wasn't showing how good a driver he was. From smooth and fast he transformed to rough and almost fast, hard on the car and its tyres... a real jerk.

I can well believe that Senna was capable of going to Prost as a TV reporter and playing the make-up game so he could get a fairer coverage. I can also well believe that Senna was sincere in making up ... both paths could be true.

Of Prost, I can also believe he was willing to clear the air and become respected co-operatives, but little else. I can well believe that he turned up at the funeral out of respect, or out of an understanding for what it would do for his public relations, even out of remorse for the difficulties he'd given Senna.

But they were difficulties they mutually created, weren't they?

[deangelis86]

Originally posted by Mila
Barry Lake, Rosberg apparently held high regard for Serra. I recall the Finn stating (in his autobiography?) that the Brazilian never had a real opportunity to display his super talent.

Hmmm, a Keke Rosberg autobiography.....can anyone confirm if such a thing actually exists?

[Timekeeper]

de Angelis, Rosberg's autobiography does exist. Its simply called "Keke" and was written with Keith Botsford. It was published in 1985. Like many others on TNF he was a real hero of mine.

[deangelis86]

Great stuff, what a pity that it's rather out of date. Obviously, a lot has changed in his life since 1985 so it's a shame there is not a more recent edition.

Available from specialist motorsport bookshops I guess....

[Timekeeper]

de Angelis I would think specialist shops would be your only chance now. I've not seen it very often out here in Australia in recent years, even in the motorsport specialist shops, it may be different in the UK. Kimberley's also produced one of their special booklets about him in 1984 written by Bob Constanduros.

[ghinzani]

Well, it seems quite obvious the quote's refering to Emmo, but didn't he and Senna have a very friendly realtionship? I mean, wasn't it Fittipaldi who arranged the CART test for Senna in early 1993?

Certainly strikes me as odd.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Are you in a time warp?

[lotuspoweredbyford]

I believe at the end the two had a much more cordial relationship.

In fact, I recall on Friday practice that Ayrton said something on the air as a hello to Prost, something to the effect of hello to my close friend Alain, we miss you.

[Haddock]

I believe at the end the two had a much more cordial relationship.

In fact, I recall on Friday practice that Ayrton said something on the air as a hello to Prost, something to the effect of hello to my close friend Alain, we miss you.

I happened to be flicking through a book about the Senna/Prost rivalry by a guy called Malcolm Folley. It has an interview with Prost on the subject where he appears genuinely to be a little uncertain as to quite what motivated Senna's efforts at rapprochement shortly before his death. Apparently Senna had spent some time trying to persuade Prost to come back to the sport - that his life was so much about beating Prost that he didn't quite know what to do after he had retired...

[SEdward]

Senna's comments were made on French TV. At that time, it was the Williams drivers who always commented in-cockpit footage of a lap of the circuit on the morning just before each Grand Prix, probably due to the Renault connection. Prost was working as a commentator/consultant for French TV at the time, so Senna knew he was listening.

On the morning of 1 May, 1994, Senna said something along the lines of: "Hello Alain my good friend, I really miss you".

I agree with a previous post saying that, once Prost had gone, Senna had no-one left to beat. And he, just like most of us, did not anticipate the arrival of a formidable challenger in the shape of Michael Schumacher.

Edward

[Amaroo Park]

Like the post above says. through there rivalry the drove each other to new levels and ended up being each others greatest rivals. Between them they drove the levels of competition to a new intensity

[Direct Drive]

I seem to recall an AP photo of the time showing Emerson and Prost actually bearing the pall.
I don't ever remember Emerson speaking ill of Senna, much to the contrary, they seemed to be in regular contact in the late 1980s.
Did Mansell attend the funeral? Piquet? I think the surprise is somewhere in those two, but just guessing

[Nello]

Prost was indeed a Pallbearer along with JYS, Berger, Barichello, Fittipaldi, Albereto, Boutsen, Hill, Herbert, Warwick etc....

Edited by Nello, 21 June 2009 - 01:09.

[Direct Drive]

What a very poignant and sad photo. Can't name all these fellows, but an interesting collection of racers. I recognize Emerson and Berger; Prost and Rubens; Christian Fittipaldi and Boutsen, JYS and Boesel, Alboreto, Warwick, Hill Stuck, maybe Herbert?
Thanks for sharing the image and pardon my quick blur.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Pedro Lamy between Alboreto and Hill.

[Tim Murray]

According to Richard Williams in The Death of Ayrton Senna the pallbearers were:

Berger, Prost, Alboreto, Stewart, Damon Hill, Emerson, Wilson and Christian Fittipaldi, Barrichello, Maurizio Sandro Sala, Moreno, Boesel, Lamy, Warwick, Herbert, Boutsen and Stuck.

Edited by Tim Murray, 20 June 2009 - 08:38.

[scags]

It's odd to see Rubens with hair- he looks like a teenager.

[RStock]

It's odd to see Rubens with hair- he looks like a teenager.

He looks like Massa .

[Nello]

Does anyone know who selected them as the pallbearers? Or did they just offer?

[Bruno]

I seem to recall an AP photo of the time showing Emerson and Prost actually bearing the pall.
I don't ever remember Emerson speaking ill of Senna, much to the contrary, they seemed to be in regular contact in the late 1980s.
Did Mansell attend the funeral? Piquet? I think the surprise is somewhere in those two, but just guessing

scuse my french message. but my Inglich verry bad.

j'aurais fait partie de la famille de Ayrton Senna, j'aurais refusé que le prost porte son cerceuil.
après l'avoir déstabilisé, critiquer durant plus d'une saison, pleurniché auprès de son ami balestre, et lui avoir fait endosser la responsabilité de l'accrochage de Suzuka en 1989, et d'autres choses.
il aurait mieux fait de rester chez lui en France avec sa cour de journalistes.

Edited by Bruno, 21 June 2009 - 10:47.

[giacomo]

Stuck is definitely on the photo. I cannot discover Sala.

[Seebar]

scuse my french message. but my Inglich verry bad.

j'aurais fait partie de la famille de Ayrton Senna, j'aurais refusé que le prost porte son cerceuil.
après l'avoir déstabilisé, critiquer durant plus d'une saison, pleurniché auprès de son ami balestre, et lui avoir fait endosser la responsabilité de l'accrochage de Suzuka en 1989, et d'autres choses.
il aurait mieux fait de rester chez lui en France avec sa cour de journalistes.

My French has known better times, but did you mean:

"Had I been part of Ayrton Senna's family, I would have refused Prost carrying his casket. After having destabilized him, criticized him for over a season, complaining like a baby to his friend Balestre, and having him take the responsibility for the collision at Suzuka 1989, and other things.

It would have been better for him to stay at home in France with his courtship of journalists."


Prost and Senna were talking regularly on the phone by 1994. I even think they'd more or less agreed to meet after Imola to discuss safety in F1.

Bernie Ecclestone was refused entry by Senna's brother Leonardo IIRC.

Nelson Piquet sent a telegram to offer his condolences, but thought it would be hypocritical to come to the funeral, seeing how they never were friends. But I do believe Prost and Senna had developed something of a friendship at the time of the latter's passing.

[Chezrome]

You know what? And I don't want to sound too mysogenic: guys can make up pretty well, they are not like girls who can brood over slights for twenty years. A beer, a knockup; and all is well again.

Senna and Prost were at loggerheads as competitors, Senna needed to beat Prost because Prost was the man when he arrived on the scene. The moment they did not race eachother, the reason for the animosity was over. Senna could finally appreciate how important Prost had been for his career. And could finally SEE Prost for what he was.

There's one example I always bring up when people discuss driversfeuds. Niki Lauda hated Carlos Reutemann when they drove together at Ferrari. In 1980, when they both left Ferrari, they loved to do impersonations together of Mauro Foghieri calling Enzo Ferrari (Heinz Pruller describes one of those scenes in his yearbook of 1980).

Regarding Emmerson Fittipaldi and Senna... could it not be possible that he was critical of Senna while he lived but was seriously sad and griefstricken when he died? Jacky Stewart once got into a heated argument with Senna once about his numerous crashes (often involving other drivers). Does that make Stewart a hypocrite when he rues the death of Senna?

Edit: I see Stewart is a pallbearer too. There you go.

Edited by Chezrome, 21 June 2009 - 18:09.

[RStock]

You know what? And I don't want to sound too mysogenic: guys can make up pretty well, they are not like girls who can brood over slights for twenty years. A beer, a knockup; and all is well again.

Senna and Prost were at loggerheads as competitors, Senna needed to beat Prost because Prost was the man when he arrived on the scene. The moment they did not race eachother, the reason for the animosity was over. Senna could finally appreciate how important Prost had been for his career. And could finally SEE Prost for what he was.

Exactly . I don't think it was ever personal , just a "racing thing" . It didn't matter who you were , if you beat Senna , especially on a regular basis , you were going to be his worst enemy . It was one of the ways he motivated himself . After the threat was removed (Prost) , no need for further animosity .

A good example is an interview with Prost and Senna shortly after they became teammates ...

Question : Can you be on equal footing as teammates ?

Prost : I think so , at least a little bit ? (turning to Senna)

Senna : ( looking straight ahead) NO !

Prost : (laughing) Oh **** !

At least at that point Alain knew what he was in for .

Edited by REDARMYSOJA, 21 June 2009 - 19:01.

[ghinzani]

Stuck is definitely on the photo. I cannot discover Sala.

Yeah strange one that, were they in that Mercedes race at the Nurburgring in 84? Not that theres a problem being friend with Hanschen, I bet he was a right laugh. I cant for the life of me see Sala either, was he still racing in Japan at that time? He should have been in F1, stunning FF & FF2000 driver. I can see Jo Ramirez though. Cant spot Ron, but he must have been there given how deep his friendship was with the great man. Is that Wilson Fittipaldi behind little Johhny H?

I still cant come to terms with the earlier statements about Emmo and Senna, it just doesnt add up. Then again neither does Emmo's mullet, it looks like he sneaked in a dog on the back of his neck - certainly Prost looks worried by it.

Edited by ghinzani, 21 June 2009 - 20:32.