267 replies to this topic

[Risil]

My attention wandered a bit during the red flag (something something Bottas Russell) but I couldn't help but notice that Lewis Hamilton spun into the gravel, drove very slowly into a barrier, waited, then reversed out very slowly, and still took the restart within the top 10 and by the end of the race was a comfortable second. What happened? Please help me.

[masa90]

Good driver with a great car.

[anyeis]

He would have been lap down without teammates. Maybe few points without red flag

Edited by anyeis, 18 April 2021 - 15:27.

[Disgrace]

The red flag saved his race, pretty clearly. Driver and car did the rest.

[w00dy]

Bottas and Russell saved his race. Both Mercedes drivers

[NoForumForOldPole]

He was given 90 seconds break (within the rules). They moved his car to the front on rollers in the pit lane then they let him lap the track while leaders where stationary in the pits.

The rest from 9th to 2nd was classy Lewis as always. Some great overtakes there.

Edited by NoForumForOldPole, 18 April 2021 - 15:31.

[Jellyfishcake]

Pretty simple in the end, the red flag saved him a lap, a few drivers spun out the way and then best car/DRS made the rest quite easy for him in the end.

 

Best bit of driving was probably the getting out of the gravel

[Kao18]

Lewis has had some great recovery races in the past but Lewis didnt save his own race today, he was saved.

[derstatic]

Good driver, good car, fortunate with Red Flag timing.

[aliefbielefeld]

Because he's the luckiest driver in the history of Formula 1, I mean he dangerously reversed his car straight into the racing line yet still somehow got away Scot-free for that, while Perez got loads of penalties which is pretty harsh imo just by simply overtaking two cars under SC.

[CSF]

My attention wandered a bit during the red flag (something something Bottas Russell) but I couldn't help but notice that Lewis Hamilton spun into the gravel, drove very slowly into a barrier, waited, then reversed out very slowly, and still took the restart within the top 10 and by the end of the race was a comfortable second. What happened? Please help me.

 

 

Lewis usual luck and pace. It's always a good combination.

[Synkro89]

Oh here we go with the incoming trolls 3...2...1.... " He should of been black flagged for reversing out a gravel trap "   Even i can admit this track is his lucky charm to some extent but he could of easily let his head drop after that mistake. 

[jjcale]

Good driver with a great car.

 

Great driver in a good car ...

 

The red flag saved his race, pretty clearly. Driver and car did the rest.

 

 

Bottas and Russell saved his race. Both Mercedes drivers

 

The FIA and Merc are clearly in cahoots to favour LH over all the other drivers ...

 

Toto: Bottas and George, Pronto!! .... Michael, you know what to do.

 

Masi: Dont worry Toto ... you can always count on me!

[SophieB]

My attention wandered a bit during the red flag (something something Bottas Russell) but I couldn't help but notice that Lewis Hamilton spun into the gravel, drove very slowly into a barrier, waited, then reversed out very slowly, and still took the restart within the top 10 and by the end of the race was a comfortable second. What happened? Please help me.

Tsunoda also spun out and I think Raikkonen (?) meant he got a leg up ahead of the restart, I think. 

[NoForumForOldPole]

Oh here we go with the incoming trolls 3...2...1.... " He should of been black flagged for reversing out a gravel trap " Even i can admit this track is his lucky charm to some extent but he could of easily let his head drop after that mistake.

No he should not because it is allowed within the rules. However unlapping rule is really unfair.

Edited by NoForumForOldPole, 18 April 2021 - 15:33.

[dweller23]

Well, it wasn't really that bad as it was in Imola last year when they timed VSC perfectly for Hamilton's pitstop. Also, cannot forget about Monaco 2008 where Hamilton spun into the barriers and they threw SC just as he was passing the pit entry.

[Dicun]

It was pure luck, really. Instead of being a lap down due to a slow lap into the pits with a broken front wing, he could get his front wing changed as well as taking the lap back from the leaders due to the red flag that was triggered by the crash between Russell and Bottas at almost the exact moment when Hamilton went off to the gravel trap. 

 

The pack was back together in front of him; he had his front wing changed and wasn't a lap down anymore - insane luck. Then his car advantage over the Ferraris and the McLaren did the rest. Basically, his driver error didn't have any consequences - he finished 2nd, and that's where he would have finished anyway as Verstappen was too quick today.

[Disgrace]

Hamilton wasn't the only one, Gasly too got a few points despite the tyre blunder.

[Fastcake]

No he should not because it is allowed within the rules. However unlapping rule is really unfair.

Drivers have been able to unlap themselves under the safety cars for years. The red flag procedure is a quite new, but I think under the old rules where it was a safety car restart lapped cars would still overtake and catch up to the back before the safety car came in.

[SenorSjon]

The unlapping rule will now decide the championship.

[MJB5990]

Bottas finished 2nd in Baku 2017 through the same rule.

[vlado]

Red flag. 

[andrewf1]

How did Lewis save his race?

 

 

That's how.

[dweller23]

Hamilton wasn't the only one, Gasly too got a few points despite the tyre blunder.

Kind of, but the difference was Gasly had a fair share of time before the red flag when he was in that position, whereas for Hamilton the red flag came in a super convenient moment. It was much easier for him to take that 15-20 min break and refocus than just drive those 15-20 mins after his mistake.

[SenorSjon]

Lewis didn't save his race, Bottas and Russell did.

[greenman]

It was a bit deflating to see him use DRS from 7-8 tenths back to go past Lando and Leclerc who, frankly, both deserved a podium over Lewis.

But yeah as others have told you, luck with the timing of SC and red flag, getting his lap back, then a couple more spins in front of him (most notably Perez), and the DRS being strong enough if you're in a faster car.

 

 

edit: I see a few people mentioning this, but overall not much talk on the coverage - how is a driver allowed to reverse on a track like Lewis did? I mean, it's a braking zone, no? Was he told on the radio that nobody is approaching it? Because I'm pretty sure he can't see from there

Edited by greenman, 18 April 2021 - 15:47.

[ThadGreen]

He was fortunate but I feel that you make your own luck and the best of a bad/poor situation which is what Hamilton did today (aided of course by a pretty good car). 

[Dmitriy_Guller]

The stupid F1 rules that give laps back way too generously under safety car is what brought Lewis back into the race.  I root for Hamilton and I was happy to see him have a shot to get back into it, but objectively speaking, it's stupid that cars in Hamilton's position can be gifted an entire lap. 

 

F1 commentators keep being misleading about saying that this is what other series do, but they really don't.  You can get a wave around in Indycar and NASCAR, but you first have to get yourself unlapped in some way by getting yourself in front of the leader on the track.  In NASCAR they also have a lucky dog rule, but that only applies to one car, and it's there to replace the previous rule allowing drivers to race at full speed to unlap themselves when caution comes out, which was obviously very dangerous.

[NoForumForOldPole]

Imagine stateless Mazepin, being x laps down when red lap comes, lets go for it and give it 10 laps down. Is he allowed on the track by himself to drive 10 laps while the rest of the cars are parked in the pitlane after red flag?

Moronic rule going against any racing logic.

[Red5ive]

Huge "get out of jail free" card.

 

Really dont understand this "cars can unlap themselves rule"

 

Just rearrange them in the pitlane so they are in true race order rather than unlapping them.

[Disgrace]

Huge "get out of jail free" card.

 

Really dont understand this "cars can unlap themselves rule"

 

Just rearrange them in the pitlane so they are in true race order rather than unlapping them.

 

There is a problem with that, however, in that those cars get a lap extra of fuel.

[NoForumForOldPole]

There is a problem with that, however, in that those cars get a lap extra of fuel.

 

You can drop them down, but still with laps down. So the lead cars are in front on 100 laps raced. Then cars -1 laps down on 99 laps raced etc. Still in order and still raced correct distance of the race.

Edited by NoForumForOldPole, 18 April 2021 - 16:00.

[Topsu]

He was already lapped by Max, but the red flag saved him.

[Muppetmad]

Hamilton made a mistake. He was then dealt a decent hand, and played it perfectly.

[Myrvold]

Imagine stateless Mazepin, being x laps down when red lap comes, lets go for it and give it 10 laps down. Is he allowed on the track by himself to drive 10 laps while the rest of the cars are parked in the pitlane after red flag?

Moronic rule going against any racing logic.

It's 1 lap, not "until you are on the lead lap".

[l2k2]

Huge "get out of jail free" card.

 

Really dont understand this "cars can unlap themselves rule"

 

Just rearrange them in the pitlane so they are in true race order rather than unlapping them.

 

One has to pick up ones poison: Often, the “first-car-to-have-been-lapped” is fighting for (a point-scoring) position with a car not that many seconds ahead of it in the road. (As the race leader is often in the progress of lapping the pack.)

 

If you drop the lapped cars behind the pack, this gap what used to be a few seconds is now a full lap, and the last car on the lead lap will have secured a virtually guaranteed position. (This can further be an undeserved one, as the who's lapped and who's not gets shuffled during the pit-stop phase.)

 

If you let the lapped cars overtake the pack and return to lead lap (or one lap less of having been lapped), this gap remains a few seconds, and the race is on. 

 

The current rule seems to balance these two fairly well. Normally, it just works and does very little visible to the order (and nobody complains of these times). Rarely, like this time, it benefits a lead car that had just gotten out of place. 

[NoForumForOldPole]

It's 1 lap, not "until you are on the lead lap".

 

Is it one lap then, thank you for clarifying. It is even less logical then? Probably something to do with Bernie Ecclestone and keep racing interesting. It kept race interesting that is for sure!

Edited by NoForumForOldPole, 18 April 2021 - 16:07.

[dweller23]

It's 1 lap, not "until you are on the lead lap".

 

And that's yet another reason why this rule is so pointless. Not even Nascar with their "lucky dog" or as they call these days "free pass" is so obnoxious with it.

 

On a sidenote: it's not like this is the first time or the last time that the stupidity of this rule is visible, but it is worth pointing out that this rule is bad whenever there's a chance

[SwedeForceOne]

His comeback drive worked because he has more luck than skill (I consider him as best on the grid along with Max).

[greenman]

The stupid F1 rules that give laps back way too generously under safety car is what brought Lewis back into the race.  I root for Hamilton and I was happy to see him have a shot to get back into it, but objectively speaking, it's stupid that cars in Hamilton's position can be gifted an entire lap. 

 

Yeah I hate this rule too. Of course the most "fair" solution would be an aggregate race, but it's also the most confusing way to do it... 

edit: actually I didn't think this through.. That rule also brought the problem of not needing to pass cars on track to actually be in front. There's probably a more fair way to do it, but I imagine they want closer races anyway

Edited by greenman, 18 April 2021 - 16:11.

[robefc]

Huge "get out of jail free" card.
 
Really dont understand this "cars can unlap themselves rule"
 
Just rearrange them in the pitlane so they are in true race order rather than unlapping them.

The only difference that would make is that the lapped cars would have a bit more fuel. Or am I missing something? Either way, they’d be in the same order, no?

[robefc]

Yeah I hate this rule too. Of course the most "fair" solution would be an aggregate race, but it's also the most confusing way to do it...

All the other cars get their gap to the leader (and everyone else) wiped...not sure why it would be arbitrarily different because the gap to leader is 1lap+?

[absinthedude]

It has absolutely nothing to do with him having any skill whatsoever. It's all down to luck and to two other drivers contracted with Mercedes crashing and to the timing of the red flag and to Lewis having made a pact with Satan. 

 

In reality, he's a candidate for GOAT in a car which today was faster than anything other than Max.....and he did have luck with the timing of the red flag. 

[Pimpwerx]

SMH. You have to really hate a driver to start hating on the unmapping rule. For one, it gives cars the midfield a chance to keep fighting for points that are only doled out to P10. So when Lewis or Max are lapping the field into the Top 10, the cars unfortunate enough to have been lapped before a SC can still battle for some meaningful points.

Seriously, don't let emotion cloud your judgement. One driver benefiting one time shouldn't mean we destroy a rule that can benefit the majority in many races.

[greenman]

All the other cars get their gap to the leader (and everyone else) wiped...not sure why it would be arbitrarily different because the gap to leader is 1lap+?

Yeah I don't know, for sure it's not fair either way, but if you managed to find yourself a full lap behind the leader, it seems like you really shouldn't be in with a shot for the podium/win.

[SenorSjon]

I hate the unlapping rule since its first inception. It was then canned and brought back a few years later. I would make a lot of noise about this as Ferrari. Lec was 2nd with ease before the red flag.

[as65p]

Because he's the luckiest driver in the history of Formula 1, I mean he dangerously reversed his car straight into the racing line yet still somehow got away Scot-free for that, while Perez got loads of penalties which is pretty harsh imo just by simply overtaking two cars under SC.

I had already blended that out again, as straightaway I was sure nobody official would notice it, and of course so it turned out. On german F1 TV Ralf Schumacher wondered the first few laps how Lewis was a bit out out of position in his grid box, but there again nothing came off it.

 

Skill is one thing, but being... blessed? tops everything, always.

[sabjit]

SMH. You have to really hate a driver to start hating on the unmapping rule. For one, it gives cars the midfield a chance to keep fighting for points that are only doled out to P10. So when Lewis or Max are lapping the field into the Top 10, the cars unfortunate enough to have been lapped before a SC can still battle for some meaningful points.

Seriously, don't let emotion cloud your judgement. One driver benefiting one time shouldn't mean we destroy a rule that can benefit the majority in many races.

 

I think I'm on the record as making this case for the unlapping rule before.

 

P10 and P11 might only be 5 secs apart but if the SC comes out when the leader is between them, it costs P11 a lap and kinda ends the race for anyone not on the lead lap. Hence why I think its a smart rule. People often only notice its impact on days like to day when it affects a lead car who is out of position.

[l2k2]

Yeah I don't know, for sure it's not fair either way, but if you managed to find yourself a full lap behind the leader, it seems like you really shouldn't be in with a shot for the podium/win.

 

Even if it would be a race where the leader has lapped everybody until P3 (and P3 and P4 were fighting for position when the leader came by, lapped the latter, and the race was stopped at that exact point)?

 

This is basically the problem they are trying to solve (I exaggerated it slightly on a purpose. The same issue occurs no matter between which two cars the race leader is at. Without the rule, the car that was just lapped gets demoted by one full lap compared to the car it was fighting against.)

[ExEd]

I’m here with my popcorn, carry on !😂