59 replies to this topic

[sheSgoTthElooK]

The driver and the team have to play by the rules. If they have to ask the FIA what those rules are, something has gone wrong already. I cannot see the stewards having any obligation to answer a team's question in the heat of the moment. I would assume they have no capacity for this.

Concerning the rule itself, that seems to be quite sensible. You can't have drivers restarting from whatever position they want to. In addition you can't have a driver speeding through the field when everybody else is weaving and preparing for a restart. Quite dangerous.

I believe they would have the „time“ to answer if it‘s about Mercedes or Red Bull. I also wouldn‘t blame Alfa Romeo, you cannot know it all, right? And therefore it‘s a good move to ask what to do if you‘re insecure. If they don‘t have the capacity, I wonder what are their capabilities? I have experienced much more chaotic re-starts or in general racing moments.

[ANF]

So its effectively a catch 22, aka ****ed up set of rules.....

No, I really don't think it is.
It's either a standing (re)start and you can retake your position – but only before SC line 1 (which is safe because everybody is crawling to the grid, not minding their positions),
or it's a rolling (re)start and you can retake your position – but only before the safety car lights go out (because after that, the leader dictates the pace and sudden, unexpected changes of position might trigger accidents).

Let's say the leader spins off behind the safety car and loses positions before a rolling restart. Who dictates the pace when the SC lights go out? The new leader, or the old leader who is trying to retake his position? And what would happen if the new leader is the one who dictates the pace in the last sector, and the old leader is allowed to retake his P1 position all the way until SC line 1?

Edited by ANF, 18 April 2021 - 22:37.

[Jvr]

Great. So now FIA has understood the screwup they made and is going to change the rules since they contradicted each other.

Also Masi changing his mind during the formation lap behind the SC contributed to the mess.

This was a great injustice done to Kimi: yes, he lost his car and lost positions too which is all his fault. But thereafter he could not avoid a penalty i.e. if he took his position back would have resulted one and we know already what happened when he did not do so.

https://www.auto-mot...safety-car-fia/

[Singularity]

Great. So now FIA has understood the screwup they made and is going to change the rules since they contradicted each other.

Also Masi changing his mind during the formation lap behind the SC contributed to the mess.

This was a great injustice done to Kimi: yes, he lost his car and lost positions too which is all his fault. But thereafter he could not avoid a penalty i.e. if he took his position back would have resulted one and we know already what happened when he did not do so.

https://www.auto-mot...safety-car-fia/

The Catch 22 situation is well described in the article. I do not understand why FiA don't simply remove the penalty to start with. It is not illegal to go off track, but from the moment he rejoined anything he would have done would have been against the rules. Simply put: Only way to avoid penalty would have been to leave the car in the sand trap and walk back.

[Vesuvius]

Great, well this won't undo what has been done and doesn't benefit Kimi anymore, but lets hope the rule is now clear for everyone.

[ANF]

I don't think Masi changed his mind. "The race will be resumed behind the safety car when the green lights are illuminated" (Article 42.8) and "If, after several laps behind the safety car, track conditions are considered unsuitable to start the race from a standing start, the message 'ROLLING START' will be sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system" (42.12).

(I guess the only incorrect decision by race control and the stewards at Imola was that the rolling start decision was taken on the first SC lap, but the regulations say "after several laps".)

And then there's this in the AMuS article:
"Artikel 42.6. soll schon demnach ab dem nächsten Rennen nur noch für eine Formationsrunde vor einem stehenden Start gelten."

I believe this means that only before future standing (re)starts will drivers be allowed to "overtake to re-establish his original starting position provided he does so before he crosses the first safety car line". Before rolling (re)starts, safety car restart rules will apply and drivers will not be allowed to re-establish their position.

[Jvr]

I don't think Masi changed his mind. "The race will be resumed behind the safety car when the green lights are illuminated" (Article 42.8) and "If, after several laps behind the safety car, track conditions are considered unsuitable to start the race from a standing start, the message 'ROLLING START' will be sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system" (42.12).

(I guess the only incorrect decision by race control and the stewards at Imola was that the rolling start decision was taken on the first SC lap, but the regulations say "after several laps".)

And then there's this in the AMuS article:
"Artikel 42.6. soll schon demnach ab dem nächsten Rennen nur noch für eine Formationsrunde vor einem stehenden Start gelten."

I believe this means that only before future standing (re)starts will drivers be allowed to "overtake to re-establish his original starting position provided he does so before he crosses the first safety car line". Before rolling (re)starts, safety car restart rules will apply and drivers will not be allowed to re-establish their position.

Did you even read the article? 

 

"But the race management had decided on a rolling start in the middle of the formation lap. The teams found out when Mayländer switched off the lights on the safety car at turn 10 and the abbreviation "RS" appeared on the FIA's information screen. From this point on, Article 42.12 comes into play. This means that once the lights on the safety car go out, no driver is allowed to overtake in front of the control line at the start and finish."

 

 

[Jvr]

The Catch 22 situation is well described in the article. I do not understand why FiA don't simply remove the penalty to start with. It is not illegal to go off track, but from the moment he rejoined anything he would have done would have been against the rules. Simply put: Only way to avoid penalty would have been to leave the car in the sand trap and walk back.

Or enter the pitlane and do the start from there, which was game over too.

[Singularity]

Or enter the pitlane and do the start from there, which was game over too.

...and a penalty ;)

[ANF]

Did you even read the article? 
 
"But the race management had decided on a rolling start in the middle of the formation lap. The teams found out when Mayländer switched off the lights on the safety car at turn 10 and the abbreviation "RS" appeared on the FIA's information screen. From this point on, Article 42.12 comes into play. This means that once the lights on the safety car go out, no driver is allowed to overtake in front of the control line at the start and finish."

It's standard procedure. (But they should have done more than one lap behind the safety car. And it's not a formation lap but a lap behind the safety car.)

Regulations:

Spoiler

42.8 The race will be resumed behind the safety car when the green lights are illuminated and the safety car leaves the pit lane. Drivers must follow the safety car no more than ten car lengths apart.

42.10 The safety car will enter the pits after one lap unless:

a) The race is being resumed in wet conditions and the Race Director deems more than one lap necessary, in which case see Article 24.4(l).

b) All cars are not yet in a line behind the safety car.

c) A further incident occurs necessitating another intervention.

42.12 If, after several laps behind the safety car, track conditions are considered unsuitable to start the race from a standing start, the message “ROLLING START” will be sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system, all FIA light panels will display “RS” and the car's orange lights will be extinguished. This will be the signal to the Competitors and drivers that it will be entering the pit lane at the end of that lap.

At this point the first car in line behind the safety car may dictate the pace and, if necessary, fall more than ten car lengths behind it.

As the safety car is approaching the pit entry the FIA light panels will be extinguished and replaced by waved green flags with green lights at the Line.

No driver may overtake another car on the track until he passes the Line (see Article 5.3) for the first time after the safety car has returned to the pits.

Each lap completed while the safety car is deployed will be counted as a race lap.