83 replies to this topic

[SophieB]

Well, should Max have kept his fastest lap? I have no strong feelings but I was very surprised to see it.

[TheFish]

I don’t know the rules, but seems weird you could go off track to get a point but not get a track position.

[Myrvold]

It's easy. It says that laptimes set when exceeding the track limits F1 decides on will be deleted, also in the race.

Verstappes was outside, so laptime was deleted.

[greenman]

Max said that they don't check turn 14 for track limits? So for those that read the notes before the race weekend, is that true?

[Fastcake]

Read ‘da rules.

No fastest laps for going off track!

[HP]

I don't mind getting it deleted, but then Bottas should have had his FL in Bahrain deleted too.

[Arundo]

If they dont check 14 he should. But its the FIA, the moms who run the yearly local pie baking contest can do a better job.

[Myrvold]

Max said that they don't check turn 14 for track limits? So for those that read the notes before the race weekend, is that true?

Nope. Not true.
It wasnt at first, but it was changed in the latest event notes to include T14.

Edited by Myrvold, 02 May 2021 - 15:49.

[Fastcake]

It’s all in the event notes.

https://www.fia.com/...s_version_3.pdf

[statman]

Nope. Not true.
It wasnt at first, but it was changed in the latest event notes to include T14.

 

prime example how dumb this sport has become.

 

How many versions of track limit do we have a weekend?

[Arundo]

Cool then its still strange the enforce it now and not in Bahrain. But then in have to repeat myself, its the FIA...

[Requiem84]

Voted no, it was pretty clear when I saw him running wide that he’d lose the FL.

But whats this story with Bottas in Bahrein?

[LightningMcQueen]

They were told on Friday track limits would be applied at 4 and 14. Not sure why this is even a question

[LightningMcQueen]

Cool then its still strange the enforce it now and not in Bahrain. But then in have to repeat myself, its the FIA...

It’s not strange at all, they were told in Bahrain that track limits “wouldn’t” be applied in the race at that corner, only qualifying. They then changed their minds.

What is clear is that max whilst a phenomenal talent. Needs to start listening at drivers briefing.

[sniper80]

Track limits seems to be the 2021 thing....

[greenman]

It wasnt at first, but it was changed in the latest event notes to include T14.

  Got it. They really don't make it easy for themselves, do they?

[Myrvold]

  Got it. They really don't make it easy for themselves, do they?

 

Nope. It would've been much simpler to just look at the actual rules and stick to them, not decide that it only counts for some corners, not others and have different rules for different corners.

 

But all teams and drivers know about it.

[ANF]

Nope. Not true.
It wasnt at first, but it was changed in the latest event notes to include T14.

Not really. T14 was not one of the three corners where lap times would be deleted, as I pointed out in the race thread: https://forums.autos...-day/?p=9440307

Anyway, I'm sick and tired of track limit discussions. Verstappen was off the track and gained an advantage, so the stewards did the right thing.

[statman]

Turn 14?

 

21.3 Turn 15 - Exit a) A lap time achieved during any practice session or the race by leaving the track on the exit of Turn 15, will result in that lap time and the immediately following lap time being invalidated by the stewards. A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track.

21.6 Turn 14 – Exit a) The track limits at the exit of Turn 14 are defined as when no part of the car remains in contact with the red and white kerb.

 

 

Why not use the same phrasing? FIA 

[CountDooku]

Voted no, it was pretty clear when I saw him running wide that he’d lose the FL.

But whats this story with Bottas in Bahrein?

He did it on purpose too to gain lap time. No one has run out there all race, as it’s relatively easy to keep your car within the the lines.

[Arundo]

It’s not strange at all, they were told in Bahrain that track limits “wouldn’t” be applied in the race at that corner, only qualifying. They then changed their minds.

What is clear is that max whilst a phenomenal talent. Needs to start listening at drivers briefing.

Cool. Doubt Max will loose a night of sleep over 1 point.

[ANF]

Should F1 keep points for FL? Now that's a better question...

[SophieB]

Cool. Doubt Max will loose a night of sleep over 1 point.

Not so sure, he is fighting a driver who has both won and lost a WDC by one point!

[noikeee]

Seems perfectly fair to me to delete it. Can't directly gain points from an illegal lap.

[Wolbo]

Doesn't say anywhere in the briefing notes that lap times will be invalidated for turn 14. FIA again making it up as they go along.

 

The whole track limit management is a shambles.

[ensign14]

Imagine Verstappen loses the title by the one point that he lost for being slightly off track on one corner of one lap.

 

This whole FL thing is bulldink.  Just get rid of it.  Why should something that's a piece of cake for a slow Mercedes on sticky tyres be worth as much as a hard struggle for 10th?

[Myrvold]

Not really. T14 was not one of the three corners where lap times would be deleted, as I pointed out in the race thread: https://forums.autos...-day/?p=9440307

Anyway, I'm sick and tired of track limit discussions. Verstappen was off the track and gained an advantage, so the stewards did the right thing.

T5 and T14 was added later on. It also doesn't mentioned that teams will be notified either (though, if they monitor it, and it counts towards the 3 strike thing, then the teams would be notified, yes?).
All drivers/teams knew they would lose the time in practice sessions if going outside in T5 and 14.

[Arundo]

Not so sure, he is fighting a driver who has both won and lost a WDC by one point!

If at the end of the season maybe. Now he probably thinks 20 more to go, on to the next race.

[Laptom]

Imagine Verstappen loses the title by the one point that he lost for being slightly off track on one corner of one lap.

This whole FL thing is bulldink. Just get rid of it. Why should something that's a piece of cake for a slow Mercedes on sticky tyres be worth as much as a hard struggle for 10th?

This makes me think...

FL for a p10 position should be 10 points and FL for a race winner 1 point. This will give some interesting fights in the end of the race 🤔

[ANF]

T5 and T14 was added later on. It also doesn't mentioned that teams will be notified either (though, if they monitor it, and it counts towards the 3 strike thing, then the teams would be notified, yes?).
All drivers/teams knew they would lose the time in practice sessions if going outside in T5 and 14.

Well, that's...... that's not what the event notes said.

[SenorSjon]

Imagine Verstappen loses the title by the one point that he lost for being slightly off track on one corner of one lap.

This whole FL thing is bulldink. Just get rid of it. Why should something that's a piece of cake for a slow Mercedes on sticky tyres be worth as much as a hard struggle for 10th?

Imagine 2 points as his Bahrain FL was stolen by an out of bounds Bottas...

[chrcol]

Is another farce in the sport, there is a policing of the rules problem in F1 right now, it seems as evident by the merc and williams overtakes that the policing will only happen on protest, and referees shouldnt be reacting or reliant on protests, as I said a few weeks back, remove protests, and start policing consistently.

 

Saying this as a lewis fan before anyone accuses me of bias.

[balage06]

Nah, when I saw how blatantly wide he went there, I instantly knew there's no way he will keep that FL.

Edited by balage06, 02 May 2021 - 17:49.

[speedyenrico]

Look at Bottas' onboard of fastest lap Bahrein. He was off as well on T4. I cannot see the difference with Max going off on Portimao. Not saying Max should keep it but out of consistency they should have also taken off Bottas' fastest lap in Bahrein

[LightningMcQueen]

Look at Bottas' onboard of fastest lap Bahrein. He was off as well on T4. I cannot see the difference with Max going off on Portimao. Not saying Max should keep it but out of consistency they should have also taken off Bottas' fastest lap in Bahrein

But they are told the corners where limits will be strictly applied.

Should simplify it by applying at every corner at every race

[SophieB]

Imagine Verstappen loses the title by the one point that he lost for being slightly off track on one corner of one lap.

 

This whole FL thing is bulldink.  Just get rid of it.  Why should something that's a piece of cake for a slow Mercedes on sticky tyres be worth as much as a hard struggle for 10th?

I’m liking it more than I thought it would, it’s not so much a piece of cake as a cherry on the ice cream sundae and it provides some small interest at the end of races, like today.

[speedyenrico]

But they are told the corners where limits will be strictly applied.

Should simplify it by applying at every corner at every race

Yes but i understand that Max's lap was cancelled under article 27.3 per article 21.7 of the event notes. Although perhaps track limits were not maintianed in Bahrein for T4 article 27.3 still applied, right?

[Gareth]

I’m liking it more than I thought it would, it’s not so much a piece of cake as a cherry on the ice cream sundae and it provides some small interest at the end of races, like today.

Similar for me. I thought I’d hate it, but I’m actually quite fond of it now for the same reasons you say.

[Calum]

I find it stupid cars going in late for soft, but it is what it is. It’s not problematic in the grand scheme. A lot enjoy the rule so I can live with it.

The track limits is just a mess and it shouldn’t need to be. An absolute mess - this should be a priority in the rules they tidy up and give clarity. There’s no argument on track limits in Baku Castle, so there should be no argument anywhere.

Edited by Calum, 02 May 2021 - 18:12.

[aeroscreen]

Look at Bottas' onboard of fastest lap Bahrein. He was off as well on T4. I cannot see the difference with Max going off on Portimao. Not saying Max should keep it but out of consistency they should have also taken off Bottas' fastest lap in Bahrein

Look at the race director's notes for that race and you'll be able to see the difference.

[FullOppositeLock]

But they are told the corners where limits will be strictly applied.

Should simplify it by applying at every corner at every race

Is that the same T4 in Bahrain where Red Bull were warned not to go off track after Max’ race engineer told Max to do it since Lewis had done it 29 times in the first half if the race, or a different T4 at Bahrain?

[P123]

Imagine Verstappen loses the title by the one point that he lost for being slightly off track on one corner of one lap.

 

This whole FL thing is bulldink.  Just get rid of it.  Why should something that's a piece of cake for a slow Mercedes on sticky tyres be worth as much as a hard struggle for 10th?

 

Yep, it's the whole nonsense of FL point that is the main issue.  

[speedyenrico]

Look at the race director's notes for that race and you'll be able to see the difference.

Yes the Bahrein notes say that in 21.2b 'In all cases during the race, Drivers are reminded of the provisions of Article 27.3 of the Sporting Regulations.'. So this means that art 27.3 still applied in Bahrein and if i am right Max's lap was cancelled in Portimao also under 27.3.

Edited by speedyenrico, 02 May 2021 - 18:17.

[PayasYouRace]

Imagine Verstappen loses the title by the one point that he lost for being slightly off track on one corner of one lap.

 

This whole FL thing is bulldink.  Just get rid of it.  Why should something that's a piece of cake for a slow Mercedes on sticky tyres be worth as much as a hard struggle for 10th?

 

I'm imagining it and I'm not seeing any problem. There are a hundred ways a driver could lose a single point, or enough to make a difference at the end of the season.

[P123]

I’m liking it more than I thought it would, it’s not so much a piece of cake as a cherry on the ice cream sundae and it provides some small interest at the end of races, like today.

 

Still not sold on it- RB gave up any hope of Perez racing Bottas on track for 3rd by hanging Perez out so long, to try to get one point.  As soon as RB stuck Max in, you knew then Lewis had a coast on the final laps- no burst tyre or engine sensor was going to impeded him, because they took Max out of the game.  For one point.  And the progress of which isn't followed by the TV cameras or timing screens...

[A.Fant]

They delete meaningless practice laps for track limits, why wouldn't they delete a race lap that garners points?

[FullOppositeLock]

They delete meaningless practice laps for track limits, why wouldn't they delete a race lap that garners points?

Agreed. So why didn’t they do it in Bahrain?

[SophieB]

Still not sold on it- RB gave up any hope of Perez racing Bottas on track for 3rd by hanging Perez out so long, to try to get one point.  As soon as RB stuck Max in, you knew then Lewis had a coast on the final laps- no burst tyre or engine sensor was going to impeded him, because they took Max out of the game.  For one point.  And the progress of which isn't followed by the TV cameras or timing screens...

This is a fair and reasonable objection but I still am easily dazzled, I guess. I was and am puzzled that Mercedes brought Bottas in what seemed to be one lap early, though. Didn’t understand that. 

[PayasYouRace]

This is a fair and reasonable objection but I still am easily dazzled, I guess. I was and am puzzled that Mercedes brought Bottas in what seemed to be one lap early, though. Didn’t understand that. 

 

Mercedes needed two laps to fully switch on the tyres in qualifying. Maybe they wanted the extra lap to get a proper fastest lap.

[Counterbalance]

Is that the same T4 in Bahrain where Red Bull were warned not to go off track after Max’ race engineer told Max to do it since Lewis had done it 29 times in the first half if the race, or a different T4 at Bahrain?

Would that be the same T4 that track limits didn’t apply to until Red Bull complained, if I recall? Kind of ironic, as since then track limits have become much more rigid in race control’s application.

As for fastest lap. Whilst I like the idea in principle, it’s a little worrying that practically an entire race worth of points are handed out. But it adds to the show, so overall, I don’t mind it at all, as it brings another tactical decision to take into equation on race day. Should be fun to see who gets the point in Spain.