120 replies to this topic

[Okyo]

A topic to discuss the general view of the sport and does the future look bright in the years to come. I'm talking about the drivers, teams, upcoming technical regulations, cost caps and so on.

I recall a point around 5 years back when i thought that I wasn't sure how i felt about how the drivers lineup was looking and for who will people cheer in the future years. We were seeing Vettel, Lewis, Rosberg, Alonso, Kimi, Button, Massa coming in to their late years of their careers and having just lost Jules i genuinely wasn't sure who would i follow out of the drivers left on the grid after the listed ones would retire (there was the happy aussie though  ). 

I wasn't sure about the regulations either, seeing just how dominant the Mercedes looked, a lot of the teams and manufacturers really struggling to put up a decent fight, lots of talks of financial problems. Would see a Ferrari or a RedBull snatching a win/podium every now and then, but always coming short. In the background of the dullness that the Mercedes era caused, I did worry for the sport and it's popularity among the fans. 

 

Then came Max, Leclerc, Norris, Sainz, Russel. Clear plans to regulate spending and try to level out the field. Actual aim to deal with the "dirty air, hard to follow" problem. The sport has an actual social media presence. TV coverage with the app (though it still has it's "moments") dealing with a long standing problem of not having a legal way to watch the race in quite a few countries.  After quite a while, I dare say I feel quite optimistic about the future to come. 
 

What do YOU think about the future of the sport? 


 

Edited by Okyo, 09 May 2021 - 08:17.

[Neno]

I am not happy with state of sport.  I think if nothing changes in orders of teams on table I will quit watching F1 for rest of my life. That's my last chance to F1. Drivers, let say dont matter to me much. 

Edited by Neno, 08 May 2021 - 15:27.

[Branislav]

 

What do YOU think about the future of the sport? 
 

 

In one word "Complicated"

[ARTGP]

I think in terms of consistent driving talent that can captivate the fans and draw the crowds, the sport is in a decent place. When LH, KR, SV, and FA retire, the viewership won't tank. 

 

Some other sports (like Tennis) can't say that...They are completely and utterly screwed when ND, RF, and RN retire.

Edited by ARTGP, 08 May 2021 - 15:32.

[Okyo]

In one word "Complicated"

A more fitting word would be "Unknown" as it is the future    

This is more aimed at getting the general "feel" of the fans for what we are seeing and if people are hopeful for good days to come. In my personal case, i'm feeling way more optimistic as i do see an aim and things done to get there. We see these new young guns who have entered the sport. Whose to say that in a few years time we'll see Russel in a Merc, Leclerc in a Ferrari, Max in a RedBull, Norris in a Mclaren, fighting it out if the actual gap between the teams starts to close. 

Edited by Okyo, 08 May 2021 - 15:35.

[Branislav]

A more fitting word would be "Unknown" as it is the future    

This is more aimed at getting the general "feel" of the fans for what we are seeing and if people are hopeful for good days to come. In my personal case, i'm feeling way more optimistic as i do see an aim and things done to get there. We see these new young guns who have entered the sport. Whose to say that in a few years time we'll see Russel in a Merc, Leclerc in a Ferrari, Max in a RedBull, Norris in a Mclaren, fighting it out if the actual gap between the teams starts to close. 

And maybe Ocon with Renault joins the party

[pdac]

Few professional sports have much of a chance nowadays. The money involved in professional sports now makes the sporting aspects of a 'sport' almost irrelevant.

[Ali623]

I'll tell you a few races into next season.

[Diablobb81]

My fear is another engine (power unit) debacle like the 2014 regulations.

Edited by Diablobb81, 08 May 2021 - 15:40.

[OvDrone]

There are older and younger ( especially the latter ) friends of mine of every gender, right down the middle, that have become big fans of F1 in the past couple of years. The paddock attitude, social media presence, netflix and just a thorough shift in personality has benefited this sport tremendously.

I can see it with my own eyes and it is beyond reproach.

 

I think and know that it's in it's most healthiest state I've seen it in. And the rules, both political and engineering, is going in the best direction.

What I am only concerned about is these sh**y upcoming circuits in Jeddah, Miami, maybe Vietnam together with the unholy trifecta of Sochi, Yas Marina and Baku ( again, my view ). Everyone I talked to loves Imola, Istanbul Park, Algarve, the Nurburgring, Mugello etc.

 

Less aramco and more incremental push towards diversity and equity.

[Mascalzone]

In 2022 there will be technical changes while what must change is the sporting essence of this "show", now inextricably linked to problems.

[jcbc3]

The present future is bright. There's a load of extremely talented guys in F1 and in the ranks below. If we get a Colton Herta and Pato over from Indycar, the American market is covered. We have some incredibly fast cars with the current technology and we are operating under a budget cap, that mean smaller etams can compete. We have rules for wind tunnel use that favors the smaller teams and give them a chance to catch up somewhat. Even the most lousy underdeveloped car (Haas), driven by two rookies is still only 2 seconds slower than the ultimate fastest cars being driven by generational talents, Max and Lewis. If you can't enjoy this you are an idiot. Plain and simple.

[McLando]

A topic to discuss the general view of the sport and does the future look bright with the years to come. I'm talking about the drivers, teams, upcoming technical regulations, cost caps and so on.

I recall a point around 5 years back when i thought that I wasn't sure how i felt about how the drivers lineup was looking and for who will people cheer in the future years. We were seeing Vettel, Lewis, Rosberg, Alonso, Kimi, Button, Massa coming in to their late years of their careers and having just lost Jules i genuinely wasn't sure who would i follow out of the drivers left on the grid after the listed ones would retire (there was the happy aussie though  ). 

I wasn't sure about the regulations either, seeing just how dominant the Mercedes looked, a lot of the teams and manufacturers really struggling to put up a decent fight, lots of talks of financial problems. Would see a Ferrari or a RedBull snatching a win/podium every now and then, but always coming short. In the background of the dullness that the Mercedes era caused, I did worry for the sport and it's popularity among the fans. 

 

Then came Max, Leclerc, Norris, Sainz, Russel. Clear plans to regulate spending and try to level out the field. Actual aim to deal with the "dirty air, hard to follow" problem. The sport has and actual social media presence. TV coverage with the app (though it still has it's "moments") dealing with a long standing problem of not having a legal way to watch the race in quite a few countries. 
 

What do YOU think about the future of the sport? 

I think it depends when or if these drivers ever get a chance to fight for victories. Great potential for exciting racing for wins between a new generation. But I'm not even seeing an end to Hamilton/Mercedes winning every year and his replacement will possibly just take over doing the same. 10+ years of Mercedes winning both titles? 

[Rupert]

F1 was a mainstream sport in the 80s, 90s and 2000s.

 

Now it´s a niche sport. The tv rating plummeted on places like Germany, Italy, France, Finland(despite the presence of Vettel, Hulk, Kimi and Bottas)..... On Brazil, which used to be F1´s biggest audience, it saw a constant decline over the past decade too and now, it´s less than half of what it was last year(which was already low compared to 10 or 15 years ago)

 

If you go on youtube, that´s pretty clear too. Despite being a worldwide sport, the official F1 channel has only 5 million subscribers, that´s tiny. If you search for the most viewed F1 video on youtube, it´s probably a press conference compilation with 12 million views.

 

Recently, I saw a MotoGP battle on youtube(IIRC between Rossi and Stoner) that had almost 60 million views.

 

I think all that tells you in what state F1 is in.

 

To finish off, on 2014 I remember some people saying on forums like this one that the only people still watching F1 were Hamilton fanboys. I think they are quite right to an extent. Most people watching are indeed fans of LH who watch thinking they are seeing a great thing, a historical achievement and etc. When you go on youtube and watch F1 videos from the 2000s, everybody in the comments is saying things like : "When F1 was F1",  "I stopped watching for a long time now", "No DRS BS or gimmicky tyres".

 

But, inside the little bubble of people that still watch it, everything is great, though. They think the drivers are amazing, DRS is fantastic, the tyres are great, the circuits are awesome......

Edited by Rupert, 08 May 2021 - 16:10.

[Ben1445]

If you go on youtube, that pretty clear too. Despite being a worldwide sport, the official F1 channel has only 5 million subscribers, that´s tiny. If you search for the most viewed F1 video on youtube, it´s probably a press conference compilation with 12 million views.

The most watched video on the official F1 channel is Top 10 Moments of Pit Lane Drama - 21m views - 2 years ago 

[Anderis]

- budget cap

- aero changes for 2022 to help close racing

- F1 has got too professional, technologically advanced and too sterile- teams and drivers don't make mistakes anywhere near as often as in the past and every variable is under control, which leads to less interesting races and seasons, everything looks static and there's no variety in what happens in the races and in race results

- too few teams and lack of willingness to expand the grid

- track limit issues and too much tarmac run-offs instead of gravel or grass- circuits not punishing mistakes

- engine sound not as exciting as in the past and it's not going to change

 

Could have been worse but I'm not very optimistic anyway and I think F1 is past its prime and it doesn't really have a chance to recover in current circumstances.

[Ben1445]

Despite not really being an active viewer at the moment, I'm actually reasonably optimistic for F1's future prospects 

[Rupert]

The most watched video on the official F1 channel is Top 10 Moments of Pit Lane Drama - 21m views - 2 years ago 

That´s better. Now it only needs to tripple to match MotoGP:

 

I looked in the official channel and there is another MotoGP video with 80 million views, that´s 4 times more than F1, I guess that´s pretty telling

 

 

Btw, there are 9 videos on MotoGP channel that have more views than F1´s top videos. It seems MotoGP is only growing while F1 is only shrinking

Edited by Rupert, 08 May 2021 - 17:05.

[Fastcake]

Every major problem with Formula One really comes down to money. There's been little competition because only three teams can afford to fight at the front, and Ferrari have spent the past two years shooting themselves repeatedly. Many of the other teams have spent some time over the past decade on the verge of bankruptcy, and have been more concerned over survival instead of racing. Many good drivers can't afford seats, and there aren't enough seats to accommodate new rookies every year anyway, which comes down to the system making teams beyond 10th place unviable.

 

The budget cap and the associated redistribution of revenue should help to fix these problems. By reducing, if not eliminating, the difference in budgets it will at least make it possible for a smaller team to fight at the front. Then, when we have more competition, it's a matter of sorting out the decades long problem of getting the cars to follow each other easily.

[Lights]

I voted no because for me there are too many problems with the sport that ideally I like to see handled differently.

I can admit that I don't have easy solutions for all of these either. And I understand $$$ matters and that F1 is a business. But still.

 

Trying to keep it short:

• it's becoming less sport and more show. I foresee the balance increasingly going towards viewership rather than what is best for the sport itself;
• the sport lacks organisational professionalism, specifically within race direction. The list of recent mishaps is appalling for an international sport of this size and wealth;
• the increasing involvement with questionable countries and organisations. F1 is selling its soul with some of the deals they are making. I truly detest that, but ok that's just personal;
• it's not ideal to practically only have 3 power unit manufacturers (for the simplicity not counting whatever Red Bull is going to do), for the sport to 'work' better you need more competition on that level;
• there's so much work to do before we can stop consistently discussing track limits, and there's no fix on the horizon. Ties in with the organisational professionalism point;
• the cars are becoming too long and too heavy and it doesn't seem like that trend is reversible. It simply hurts the racing;
• racing has become too sterile, a lot of the awe and excitement of simply an F1 car driving around on the limit has disappeared;
• the promises of Ross Brawn to make DRS redundant look like they're falling flat. It's not good for the long term that there isn't a better outlook for this;
• safety cars and red flags increasingly occur and thus increasingly impact the race results and championship. I get that safety requires it, but as a purist, it hurts and I would prefer a different solution.

So yeah, I have plenty of worries. Which drivers we cheer for, that's not one of them. They come and go. There will always be heroes.

Edited by Lights, 08 May 2021 - 17:50.

[Rupert]

Congrats Lights!

 

That´s the most reasonable post I have seen on this forum, in years

[KeithD68]

No. 

 

But it could be immediately and drastically improved by dusting off the rule set from c1990 - obv retaining safety improvements made over the last 30 years.

[jpm2019]

They need to do something about the brakes. The brakes are to good to provide overtaking space. 

[PayasYouRace]

There are aspects I'm happy about. There's clearly good young talent coming in. Under Liberty fan engagement is coming along by leaps and bounds. They're bringing F1 to new audiences in a 21st Century way, looking at the future rather than worrying too much about old men who buy Rolexes. There's a very strong and considered approach to technical regulations and addressing some of the age old problems. They're clearly not afraid to try new things, such as new formats. The budget cap promises to keep the field closer in the future. There doesn't seem to be a fear of going to classic tracks.

 

But there are aspects I'm not happy about. There's still a closed shop mentality and we're not seeing any opportunity for genuine new teams to enter and increase the size of the field. F1 should be open and achievable for the top F2, Super Formula and Indycar teams. The calendar is still expanding into too many new and questionable parts of the world. They should be focussing on places where the fans are, and not just blindly following the money. Race control needs a shake up. Track limits woudn't be a problem if they were just enforced by the rules, though it does appear that they might be slowly coming to some sense about it.

 

However the big thing for me is that I'm a fan of all motorsport, so if F1 continues to move in directions I'm not happy with, I will simply watch the already exciting series I enjoy elsewhere, like Indycar and BTCC. I've voted "meh" for that very reason. But as a final thought, in the past couple of years I've actually enjoyed a lot of the core aspect of the sport. That is, the race on Sunday afternoon. The actual on track product is nowhere near as bad as some would make it out to be.

[MrAerodynamicist]

Motorsport has a fundamental problem in that our scientific/technical knowledge has now passed a tipping point and it's impossible to unlearn what we know.   The technology is now fundamentally too good, and the technology you require to be good is unavoidably expensive to implement. So it's turned in to a number-crunching game of convergent evolution. 

 

You could try to make F1 interesting again by banning telemetry, banning wind tunnels, banning CFD, banning FAE and banning simulators. Force the design of F1 cars back in to a game of intuition of the chief designer, driver feedback and the stop-watch.

Edited by MrAerodynamicist, 08 May 2021 - 18:23.

[noikeee]

I voted yes. I think the budget cap will eventually make F1 more equitable and unpredictable after a few years, I'm placing seriously big hopes in that, and also I have faith the new regulations will improve natural overtaking somewhat. And I think they've improved the sport considerably in recent years in engaging with the fans. It's not perfect and they're still cashing in / selling out on some things that annoy me, but in a much better direction than under Bernie.

In some aspects modern F1 has become soulless, but it's impossible to roll it back. Can't put grass around the tracks again. Can't take extreme professionalism, that makes cars extremely well setup, away from the sport again. Etc.

The thing I'm most concerned about is the wider society pressures against cars and fossil fuels. We might be heading into the last 15 or 20 years of cars that still make some kind of mildly satisfying noise, and who knows maybe racing cars at all will become unacceptable by society. That nearly made me vote "meh", but it's not the sport's fault for being what it is.

Edited by noikeee, 08 May 2021 - 18:40.

[masa90]

Not really. I feel like it is just getting further away from the sport I fell in love.

Also the luck of competition to merc since 14 has been horrible for the sport. Best or atleast one of the best drivers in the best team in history just is a bad combo to the sport.

[loki]

[PayasYouRace]

Motorsport has a fundamental problem in that our scientific/technical knowledge has now passed a tipping point and it's impossible to unlearn what we know.   The technology is now fundamentally too good, and the technology you require to be good is unavoidably expensive to implement. So it's turned in to a number-crunching game of convergent evolution. 

 

You could try to make F1 interesting again by banning telemetry, banning wind tunnels, banning CFD, banning FAE and banning simulators. Force the design of F1 cars back in to a game of intuition of the chief designer, driver feedback and the stop-watch.

 

I think you've identified a major issue but I think the way to go is where every other series has gone. Go more spec. Make relevant performance differentiators non-spec if you must, but I can't see F1 surviving too long by trying to maintain the full constructor model. A lot of the things you list become less important if most of your equipment is the same as everyone else.

[ArrowsLivery]

FIA's utter incompetence makes it impossible to be happy with the way F1 is going. 

[Dalton007]

F1 is moving to electrification later this decade. Not sure if the FIA has any choice but to change considering the electrical transition is fully underway in the automative world.

[azza200]

F1 was a mainstream sport in the 80s, 90s and 2000s.

 

Now it´s a niche sport. The tv rating plummeted on places like Germany, Italy, France, Finland(despite the presence of Vettel, Hulk, Kimi and Bottas)..... On Brazil, which used to be F1´s biggest audience, it saw a constant decline over the past decade too and now, it´s less than half of what it was last year(which was already low compared to 10 or 15 years ago)

 

If you go on youtube, that´s pretty clear too. Despite being a worldwide sport, the official F1 channel has only 5 million subscribers, that´s tiny. If you search for the most viewed F1 video on youtube, it´s probably a press conference compilation with 12 million views.

 

Recently, I saw a MotoGP battle on youtube(IIRC between Rossi and Stoner) that had almost 60 million views.

 

I think all that tells you in what state F1 is in.

 

To finish off, on 2014 I remember some people saying on forums like this one that the only people still watching F1 were Hamilton fanboys. I think they are quite right to an extent. Most people watching are indeed fans of LH who watch thinking they are seeing a great thing, a historical achievement and etc. When you go on youtube and watch F1 videos from the 2000s, everybody in the comments is saying things like : "When F1 was F1",  "I stopped watching for a long time now", "No DRS BS or gimmicky tyres".

 

But, inside the little bubble of people that still watch it, everything is great, though. They think the drivers are amazing, DRS is fantastic, the tyres are great, the circuits are awesome......

 

This 

[tyker]

I'm happy were the sport is going but not happy with the sprint racing.

[P123]

They finally seem to be getting a handle on costs, will hopefully tackle the decades old problem of 'dirty air' with the new incoming regulations next season, and the current owners actually do promote the sport, unlike what came before, nor are there gamed championships with the FIA trying to manipulate the result.  Those are the positives.

 

The negatives would be the increasing number of races beyond saturation point, mini-races as a post qualifying addition, and the lack of manufacturer involvement.  Although a positive to come from that may be Red Bull showing you don't necessarily need them.

[Risil]

There are problems but like Okyo (I think) I'm much more optimistic than I was 5 years ago. F1 isn't the sport that it used to be but it's still compelling enough to me.

[ANF]

They finally seem to be getting a handle on costs, will hopefully tackle the decades old problem of 'dirty air' with the new incoming regulations next season, and the current owners actually do promote the sport, unlike what came before, nor are there gamed championships with the FIA trying to manipulate the result.  Those are the positives.
 
The negatives would be the increasing number of races beyond saturation point, mini-races as a post qualifying addition, and the lack of manufacturer involvement.  Although a positive to come from that may be Red Bull showing you don't necessarily need them.

I think I'll copy that.

[NixxxoN]

YES... In theory.

I have very high expectations for the upcoming 2022 regulations. Should provide closer and better racing. Also I'm positive about the cost cap. Should provide more equality between teams. The two (better racing and more equality) are really needed for F1.

 

However... Both have yet to be proven effective. They may work, or they may not, or maybe 50/50. We'll see.

Edited by NixxxoN, 08 May 2021 - 23:00.

[greenman]

It's not a sport I fell in love with as a child and was a huge fan of in my teenage years, but I'm feeling a bit better about it now compared to 2013-2014 when I honestly started to be more drawn towards Indycar and MotoGP. I can't really say whether I'm "happy" with the future of the sport, because honestly most of that depends on how successful the rules (as well as budget caps) next year will be and how this will change the sport in the coming years.

 

In general I think this is a sensible direction to take F1 into, and I hope it works. 

 

Other positives...

- Driver talent is on a fairly high level. There have always been some "questionable" faces, and current era is no exception, but I'm very curious to see how careers of Max, Leclerc, Russell, Norris et al. will develop.

 

- Social media. Liberty Media bringing the sport into 21st century evidently works. Social media engagement is better, Drive to Survive is also bringing in new fans (although I have many issues with the series in general). 

 

Worries:

- Lack of free viewing options. It's good that new fans are being reached over social media and Netflix, but how many will be willing to pay to see live races from the get go? I also think it's terrible that the "core" F1 countries, such as France, Germany, Brazil are losing viewers, or that Germany of all countries doesn't even have an F1 race. It's worse when you consider that many new venues are not coming into calendar because there is local interest or enthusiasm for racing, but rather the interest of governments or sponsors.

 

- Lack of new teams/manufacturers. Mainly that it feels like they're not even trying to create a environment in which that would be possible. As someone has mentioned, it should be possible for teams from F2 or other racing series to aspire to get into F1, but it's a closed door atm. 10 teams is not enough, and relying on billionaire take-overs every time one of them goes bust, just isn't going to cut it.

 

- Questionable decisions regarding the F1 "product". Sprint qualifying as the latest one that I just don't understand. Nothing bad with "trying things out", but it feels like it's an attempt to make Fridays and Saturdays an easier selling point, but one that will bring 0 actual excitement. And while I am somewhat optimistic over next years rule changes, I'm also a bit skeptical about what will happen then, because it seems like I have different views on what constitutes good racing compared to many watching F1 nowadays. For example I've seen many comments after the Portimao race (maybe less so here, but more on other social media), about how there was not enough overtaking and that DRS should have been stronger... I'm afraid that this mentality where faster cars are expected to just breeze by slower ones is so normalized in the DRS era, that FIA just won't even think about getting rid of it.

 

Other than that, bolded here:

The thing I'm most concerned about is the wider society pressures against cars and fossil fuels. We might be heading into the last 15 or 20 years of cars that still make some kind of mildly satisfying noise, and who knows maybe racing cars at all will become unacceptable by society. That nearly made me vote "meh", but it's not the sport's fault for being what it is.

I'm a bit curious on how well F1 will adapt to this.

 

 

But there are aspects I'm not happy about. There's still a closed shop mentality and we're not seeing any opportunity for genuine new teams to enter and increase the size of the field. F1 should be open and achievable for the top F2, Super Formula and Indycar teams. The calendar is still expanding into too many new and questionable parts of the world. They should be focussing on places where the fans are, and not just blindly following the money. Race control needs a shake up. Track limits woudn't be a problem if they were just enforced by the rules, though it does appear that they might be slowly coming to some sense about it.

 

However the big thing for me is that I'm a fan of all motorsport, so if F1 continues to move in directions I'm not happy with, I will simply watch the already exciting series I enjoy elsewhere, like Indycar and BTCC. I've voted "meh" for that very reason. But as a final thought, in the past couple of years I've actually enjoyed a lot of the core aspect of the sport. That is, the race on Sunday afternoon. The actual on track product is nowhere near as bad as some would make it out to be.

 

Few thoughts - big  re: closed shop mentality, and race control shenanigans, although at least that part doesn't feel like it's "new", but like an ever-present staple of F1.

Also, I agree that the track product is nowhere near as bad as some would make it to be. One issue was the dominance of one team/driver for so many years. I think if you switch the two Mercedes drivers in Portimao, everybody would be hailing it as a classic. But because it ended as another "HAM-VER-BOT", people suddenly found it "boring".

 

Other issue that I personally have is DRS, but there are cases where I was able to enjoy the racing regardless (all three races so far this year tbh).

 

 

I think you've identified a major issue but I think the way to go is where every other series has gone. Go more spec. Make relevant performance differentiators non-spec if you must, but I can't see F1 surviving too long by trying to maintain the full constructor model. A lot of the things you list become less important if most of your equipment is the same as everyone else.

 

 

This is one thing I don't agree on actually. Full constructor model is why I personally find F1 more "special" in the first place. I'm more hopeful that budget caps will do the trick.

 

 

Btw, there are 9 videos on MotoGP channel that have more views than F1´s top videos. It seems MotoGP is only growing while F1 is only shrinking

A bit strange to compare it like that. FP1 and FP2 highlights got over a million views on the F1 channel, and highlights for each race get several million views. Seems perfectly fine. I'm also pretty sure that I read somewhere that F1 youtube channel is the fastest growing sports channel (or maybe it was Twitter? Or social media in general?). They've also got those top 10s and classic races videos. I think they're doing fine.

 

I think Moto GP has been more active on social media for longer. Also, I don't think it's surprising that one of the finest ever on-track battles in any racing series got so many views. Likewise for maybe the most controversial moment in any racing series in the last decade at least (IIRC that Sepang moment even exploded on this forum, which at the time barely had any engagement for each race). It's like a Jerez 1997 moment happening in the social media era...

[jjcale]

The future of the sport has not happened yet .... so I dont know how I feel about it yet. 

 

But there are some plans for the relatively near future that I am not too excited by. But I will wait to see how they play out. I dont want to see F1 become a spec series. We have lots of those already and IMHO none of them is nearly as interesting as F1. But the shift in society is towards greater fairness and equality. And F1 has also become a cult of the driver. So fairness between drivers is now a goal in itself. They should all have a chance to win and show us who is the most talent/best - and if this means sacrificing the battle between the teams, with the tech innovation this brings then so be it, it seems. 

 

I dont understand why Indycar has not taken over the planet if this model is so great. 

 

And as for suggesting that F1 is somehow less popular than MotoGP .... the only polite comment that I can make is that this is disingenuous, at best.

 

... and lets not pretend, in order to make our points, that F1 is not by far the most popular motor sport on the planet. 

 

The ebs and flows of F1s popularity lies in factors other than those that new rules seek to address - or even which we have discussed so far in this thread. And for me personally I dont care if F1 is more popular or less popular. I only care if I am enjoying it ... and I am. Last season was amazing. The cars were great.

 

I would like louder engines back but I understand why we cant have this. And I would love to see closer racing at the front - but not by neutering innovation.

 

I am not a fan of the costs cap. I think if its your money and if you can afford to waste it on F1 you should be allowed to do so.... you can go on and win by a minute if you want - all that will happen is that most people here will watch the closer racing behind you .... but if you find someone else who is equally daft to spend $400m+ on a season of racing and they can get near you, why should I not enjoy the spectacle of created by the best engineers and the best drivers pushing each other to ever greater speeds.

 

... we are meant to be a racing forum but where was the praise for the technological marvel that was the W11 - the greatest racecar ever built??  All we had was bitching about Merc being "too good".  ..... What kind of motor sport fans completely ignore the fact that we just witnessed the best car ever built and raced???  

 

Back in the day, decades ago, when F1 was being built into the juggernaut of popularity that it is, wins used to be by minutes sometimes. Qualifying times were seconds apart.... but the tech was cutting edge and the spectacle created by it was worth watching on its own. That is what built F1. Not "close racing".... or the world would be watching Indy or Nascar.  

 

I want to see more and better tech, faster cars, more insane grip, crazy cornering speeds, Drivers in G suits.  I dont care if the guys who can do that win by 10 minutes.... the others will catch up eventually. 

 

For those who think the official viewing figures are the be all and end all .... can you imagine the multitudes who would tune in to watch cars so fast the drivers need G suits? .... I bet it would be more than tune in to see the wannabe Indycars of 2022 onward. 

Edited by jjcale, 09 May 2021 - 04:23.

[loki]

I dont understand why Indycar has not taken over the planet if this model is so great. 

 

Quite the strawman you’ve spun up.  Indycar didn’t become a spec series until it almost killed itself with a decade long civil war.  It was never on track to gain worldwide popularity in the way F1 did even when they were building or were able to build their own cars.

 

Unlimited budgets in F1 aren’t a sustainable business model.  Other forms of motorsport figured this out years ago to varying degrees.  Times change, people change.  People that refuse to change or don’t/can’t for whatever reason aren’t able to see the change around them.  They cling to memories of a past regardless of if those memories accurately reflect history.  In life the only constant is change.

[noriaki]

The future of the sport has not happened yet .... so I dont know how I feel about it yet.

But there are some plans for the relatively near future that I am not too excited by. But I will wait to see how they play out. I dont want to see F1 become a spec series. We have lots of those already and IMHO none of them is nearly as interesting as F1. But the shift in society is towards greater fairness and equality. And F1 has also become a cult of the driver. So fairness between drivers is now a goal in itself. They should all have a chance to win and show us who is the most talent/best - and if this means sacrificing the battle between the teams, with the tech innovation this brings then so be it, it seems.

I dont understand why Indycar has not taken over the planet if this model is so great.

And as for suggesting that F1 is somehow less popular than MotoGP .... the only polite comment that I can make is that this is disingenuous, at best.

... and lets not pretend, in order to make our points, that F1 is not by far the most popular motor sport on the planet.

The ebs and flows of F1s popularity lies in factors other than those that new rules seek to address - or even which we have discussed so far in this thread. And for me personally I dont care if F1 is more popular or less popular. I only care if I am enjoying it ... and I am. Last season was amazing. The cars were great.

I would like louder engines back but I understand why we cant have this. And I would love to see closer racing at the front - but not by neutering innovation.

I am not a fan of the costs cap. I think if its your money and if you can afford to waste it on F1 you should be allowed to do so.... you can go on and win by a minute if you want - all that will happen is that most people here will watch the closer racing behind you .... but if you find someone else who is equally daft to spend $400m+ on a season of racing and they can get near you, why should I not enjoy the spectacle of created by the best engineers and the best drivers pushing each other to ever greater speeds.

... we are meant to be a racing forum but where was the praise for the technological marvel that was the W11 - the greatest racecar ever built?? All we had was bitching about Merc being "too good". ..... What kind of motor sport fans completely ignore the fact that we just witnessed the best car ever built and raced???

Back in the day, decades ago, when F1 was being built into the juggernaut of popularity that it is, wins used to be by minutes sometimes. Qualifying times were seconds apart.... but the tech was cutting edge and the spectacle created by it was worth watching on its own. That is what built F1. Not "close racing".... or the world would be watching Indy or Nascar.

I want to see more and better tech, faster cars, more insane grip, crazy cornering speeds, Drivers in G suits. I dont care if the guys who can do that win by 10 minutes.... the others will catch up eventually.

For those who think the official viewing figures are the be all and end all .... can you imagine the multitudes who would tune in to watch cars so fast the drivers need G suits? .... I bet it would be more than tune in to see the wannabe Indycars of 2022 onward.

So... You argue that racing fans want to see cutting edge technology and not close racing, then complain when it turns out racing fans couldn't be less interested in the W11's cutting edge technology. And blame the fans

I do agree it should never be fully spec but it could easily be more spec than now if the payback is quality racing. F1 fans were never attracted in droves by the tech itself. Maybe apart from the engineer niche crowd, the innovations don't really matter to its popularity. it was always the status at the top of the ladder & larger than life drivers and characters which have been its main selling point.

[M66R]

It's difficult.

I am as interested in F1 as ever but don't watch hardly as many races as I did.

Hamilton and Merc are so OP that it isn't worth watching the races mostly. Plus with a fair few races being processional you can get a good grasp of the race by listening to podcasts (of which there are many good F1 ones) and the F1 YouTube videos.

Take Portugal, as soon as Hamilton blasted past Verstappen it was obvious he was going to win the race.

Add in the fact that the top 2 teams are so far ahead of the rest it doesn't make for a compelling watch.

Hopefully with the new cars and, cost caps and aero time rules, the field will compress but I won't hold my breath.

Edited by M66R, 09 May 2021 - 07:44.

[P123]

Quite the strawman you’ve spun up.  Indycar didn’t become a spec series until it almost killed itself with a decade long civil war.  It was never on track to gain worldwide popularity in the way F1 did even when they were building or were able to build their own cars.

 

Unlimited budgets in F1 aren’t a sustainable business model.  Other forms of motorsport figured this out years ago to varying degrees.  Times change, people change.  People that refuse to change or don’t/can’t for whatever reason aren’t able to see the change around them.  They cling to memories of a past regardless of if those memories accurately reflect history.  In life the only constant is change.

 

Maybe not, but from the mid-90s to 2001/2002 it was the best racing series on the planet, in fact probably the peak of what a single seater category has ever been.  Then it imploded through greed and has never fully recovered. 

 

And yes, people do tend to have the nostalgia googles on for their favourite F1 periods; that is clear form this topic alone.

[P123]

It's difficult.

I am as interested in F1 as ever but don't watch hardly as many races as I did.

Hamilton and Merc are so OP that it isn't worth watching the races mostly. Plus with a fair few races being processional you can get a good grasp of the race by listening to podcasts (of which there are many good F1 ones) and the F1 YouTube videos.

Take Portugal, as soon as Hamilton blasted past Verstappen it was obvious he was going to win the race.

Add in the fact that the top 2 teams are so far ahead of the rest it doesn't make for a compelling watch.

Hopefully with the new cars and, cost caps and aero time rules, the field will compress but I won't hold my breath.

 

And yet the field 'spread' is as close as it has ever been, and passing for position throughout the field greater than ever.  From that I only really understand the lament of it being the same guy on top and the same two teams for the past few years. 

[PayasYouRace]

Maybe not, but from the mid-90s to 2001/2002 it was the best racing series on the planet, in fact probably the peak of what a single seater category has ever been.  Then it imploded through greed and has never fully recovered. 

 

And yes, people do tend to have the nostalgia googles on for their favourite F1 periods; that is clear form this topic alone.

 

The weird part about it was that it's peak years came in the immediate aftermath of the damage being done. The implosion of 2001/2 was more of a delayed reaction to the greed of 1995.

[M66R]

And yet the field 'spread' is as close as it has ever been, and passing for position throughout the field greater than ever. From that I only really understand the lament of it being the same guy on top and the same two teams for the past few years.

Correct.

[SenorSjon]

I just watched this one and I'm quite shocked to see the size difference (I know the static pictures), but the SF1000 looks like the BMW GT meme gone real:

https://youtu.be/OQ9imxY0aek

For the future:
I'm quite fearful. More and more gimmicks (sprint races being the last one) cater short term audiences. I doubt they (F1) will get what they want from it in the long term. The entry fee, ridiculously expensive PU's, it all makes for a status quo.

Last night I came upon a Dutch article about viewership.
2014 had on average 124k viewers in the Netherlands, while it was on the Ziggo open channel (Ziggo is the biggest provider here). The start of this season got 2.8m viewers, still on Ziggo. The Netherlands is going through the same phase as Germany went when Schumacher was on the rise.

[noriaki]

Correct.

 

Factually, it's incorrect. Throughout the Hybrid era the average field spread within - let's say - top six in the grid, or even top fifteen, has been larger than it was through the V8 era for example. Same goes for the period starting from the Seventies, until the start of the Turbo era. That's not even mentioning the stagnation of the pecking order these days. 

 

Unsurprising though - it's not the first time that blatantly incorrect facts wouldn't stopped certain fans of a certain driver from spreading their agenda, either... 

[noikeee]

The budget cap is a great ALTERNATIVE to things becoming spec. I think it's a great step in the opposite path of turning F1 into a spec series. It ensures we keep having different designs without continuously risking a financially unsustainable collapse, and gently increases the odds of closer racing instead of hard-mandating it like a spec series.

[M66R]

Factually, it's incorrect. Throughout the Hybrid era the average field spread within - let's say - top six in the grid, or even top fifteen, has been larger than it was through the V8 era for example. Same goes for the period starting from the Seventies, until the start of the Turbo era. That's not even mentioning the stagnation of the pecking order these days.

Unsurprising though - it's not the first time that blatantly incorrect facts wouldn't stopped certain fans of a certain driver from spreading their agenda, either...

That's too funny. Way too funny.

I was just stating my feelings. There's no agenda from me to convert other people