212 replies to this topic

[SenorSjon]

I've just realised I don't have a problem with the width, but rather the fact that the front wings since 2019 now span the entire width of the car.

I also wish they'd make the tyres slightly thinner.

 

Older cars roughly have all the bodywork and wings between the wheels. So the wheels would be an aerodynamic annoyance for everyone. Now the front wing is in front of the wheels, floors are the full allowed size around the rear wheels, etc.

[Lights]

Nice follow-up article on F1 obesity from Scott Mitchell (The Race).

 

It did however smash my hopes of it improving again at some point. Basically the constant weight gain seems irreversible.

[Myrvold]

Nice follow-up article on F1 obesity from Scott Mitchell (The Race).

 

It did however smash my hopes of it improving again at some point. Basically the constant weight gain seems irreversible.

 

What I honestly don't get from this is that all other car racing series in the world is also looking at cutting costs, while making the cars safer, and they do both. However, they don't gain much weight at all. WRC cars will gain 50-70kg compared to the small 2016-cars when they add a hybrid system next year IIRC (it could be less as well). FE is going to be lighter and so on.

 

It's only F1 that gains and gains and gain some more.

[cpbell]

There has to be a limit, though - you can't have F1 cars that are 15 metres in length, weigh 6 tonnes and have to make a 5 point turn to get around the hairpins at Monaco.

[SenorSjon]

There has to be a limit, though - you can't have F1 cars that are 15 metres in length, weigh 6 tonnes and have to make a 5 point turn to get around the hairpins at Monaco.

 

They will be strong enough to make their own track.

[Paco]

What I honestly don't get from this is that all other car racing series in the world is also looking at cutting costs, while making the cars safer, and they do both. However, they don't gain much weight at all. WRC cars will gain 50-70kg compared to the small 2016-cars when they add a hybrid system next year IIRC (it could be less as well). FE is going to be lighter and so on.

 

It's only F1 that gains and gains and gain some more.

 

FE is shorter in race distance is it not?  

100km at most FE vs 260km for F1.  Imagine how heavy they would be if they had to race a equivalent distance.

 

50-70kg is all relative.. to overall weight.   

Rally Cars weight 1190kg, so 50-70kg is nothing compared to F1 cars are significantly lighter at 740kg so it has a bigger impact. 

 

I don't know what WRC hybrid concept is, but is it the same dual KERS as well..  Plus, Rally they are REFUEL in races.  F1 stopped that, so they have to run much heavier as a result.   I wish we had refueling still.

 

The weight gains has little to do with safety, marginally for it. 

Its all about the Batteries and NO refueling.  Nothing more then that.  Then next season, bigger tires (unsprung weight) which weigh more to be boot and the worse kind of weight.

 

F1 is beyond stupid as of late allowing them to become so obese.  Period. 

 

These big bertha's are a big reason why we don't have closer racing but even more so, its due to long life component engines and gearbox.  They simply cant't turn up the wick.  DRS makes the lack of real action as a result of FIA going down the wrong path for ever now.

Edited by Paco, 31 May 2021 - 14:50.

[Myrvold]

FE is shorter in race distance is it not?  

100km at most FE vs 260km for F1.  Imagine how heavy they would be if they had to race a equivalent distance.

 

50-70kg is all relative.. to overall weight.   

Rally Cars weight 1190kg, so 50-70kg is nothing compared to F1 cars are significantly lighter at 740kg so it has a bigger impact. 

 

I don't know what WRC hybrid concept is, but is it the same dual KERS as well..  Plus, Rally they are REFUEL in races.  F1 stopped that, so they have to run much heavier as a result.   I wish we had refueling still.

 

The weight gains has little to do with safety, marginally for it. 

Its all about the Batteries and NO refueling.  Nothing more then that.  Then next season, bigger tires (unsprung weight) which weigh more to be boot and the worse kind of weight.

The FE races are not getting shorter, but the cars are getting lighter. That's a win win. Also, it's arguably irrelevant when it comes to the length of the races, because:

 

As you mention yourself, F1 cars are at 740kg - which is without fuel. So it's quite irrelevant if other classes have shorter races, or if WRC-cars are refueling, as we are going off the weight of the cars without fuel... The weight gain in F1 from when refueling was allowed, to when it was disallowed was 15kg. And that was done to help the heavier drivers in relation to KERS (which all decided to not use anyway), and not anything to do with refueling or not.

 

Also, I never mentioned that rally cars only had a set percentage of weight gain. Again, that's something that's irrelevant. As the actual weight gain over the last 10 years in WRC, as in number of kg's are lower than F1, about 50% of the added weight, even with numerous safety improvements and a hybrid system and a lot of added aero parts.

[Paco]

The FE races are not getting shorter, but the cars are getting lighter. That's a win win. Also, it's arguably irrelevant when it comes to the length of the races, because:

 

As you mention yourself, F1 cars are at 740kg - which is without fuel. So it's quite irrelevant if other classes have shorter races, or if WRC-cars are refueling, as we are going off the weight of the cars without fuel... The weight gain in F1 from when refueling was allowed, to when it was disallowed was 15kg. And that was done to help the heavier drivers in relation to KERS (which all decided to not use anyway), and not anything to do with refueling or not.

 

Also, I never mentioned that rally cars only had a set percentage of weight gain. Again, that's something that's irrelevant. As the actual weight gain over the last 10 years in WRC, as in number of kg's are lower than F1, about 50% of the added weight, even with numerous safety improvements and a hybrid system and a lot of added aero parts.

 

Fine  You can go on and ignore simple Facts that WRC hasn't evolved other then a few minor safety tweaks.  Whereas F1 has gone in the wrong direction and added by far the greatest amount of weight not due to safety but due batteries and KERS.    Plus, WRC isn't open wheel and always had a driver protection as a result.  F1 has had to add stuff as a result of protecting the drivers yet keeping to open wheel and open cockpit design.

 

Trying to bring the 2 in reason is just not possible.

 

The closest is FE vs F1 but even then, irrelevant.  They don't race comparable distances.   Much simpler power unit.  

 

You can't even compare InyCar to F1 either.

 

F1 is getting OBESE by design.. going against making F1 better racing and relying on gimmicks such as DRS.  2022 will do very little other then make noise (which F1 cars don't even make anymore).

 

Little has to do with Safety other then the changes made for Halo.

Little has to do with Cost savings ie refueling.

 

Green (which utter nonsense cause look at the happens in mining the minerals, carbon produce in doing so and the need to SIGNIFICANT increase in electricty grid requirements would mean producing Nuclear plants at a rate unheard over and not in my back yard issues, plus all the copper that would need to be laid down, all the sub stations that would need to be installed in highrise condos - all those carbon offsets will taken forever to ever balance out if ever) by it's very nature.. but it comes at a huge WEIGHT penalty and SIZE. 

 

Those batteries take huge amounts of space to cover 300KM and weight.  Both of which hurt F1. 

[Myrvold]

Fine  You can go on and ignore simple Facts that WRC hasn't evolved other then a few minor safety tweaks.

 

ok.

[Ali_G]

Could someone confirm on the new wheels. I would have expected them to be lighter given alloys would be lighter than thick rubber?

[Paco]

Could someone confirm on the new wheels. I would have expected them to be lighter given alloys would be lighter than thick rubber?

 

I seem to recall Lewis saying something about them being heavier but my memory isn't what it used to be.  Guess they still have time to change that but doubt it. 

[Boing 2]

Could someone confirm on the new wheels. I would have expected them to be lighter given alloys would be lighter than thick rubber?

Don't know about that, on the wheel front the spokes will be individually longer and the rim will be about 40% longer in circumference. On the tyre front there will be less sidewall on the tyre but the heavy steel bead will be bigger as it also grows in length by 40% due to the increased diameter. Sidewalls will probably have to be stiffer/heavier too. I wouldn't be surprised if they were heavier overall.

[Scotracer]

Could someone confirm on the new wheels. I would have expected them to be lighter given alloys would be lighter than thick rubber?

 

Rubber is less dense than metal. Bigger wheels + lower profile tyres weigh more. Also the 2022-spec tyres are larger in diameter too as the F1 teams didn't want to go too low profile.