147 replies to this topic

[NixxxoN]

Why not Thailand?  They are aceing the covid thing aren't they? Track was ready for last year wasn't it?

Actually Thailand is now having the first serious COVID outbreak since a month ago, after supposedly "dodging it" for an entire year.

 

Although Malaysia situation is no better, they're in a middle of an outbreak now.

 

It seems the Indochina peninsula (or mainland south-east Asia) was the only continental part of the world that remained almost "covid free" for some reason, until it started to spread recently, supposedly went from Indonesia to Malaysia and then to Thailand, Cambodia and starting to spread in Vietnam and Laos now

Edited by NixxxoN, 05 June 2021 - 10:05.

[sportyskells]

I wonder when will we know the replacement race?

[BRG]

It’s also the last year of their contract, so it remains to be seen if the race ever returns. 

We can but hope.  In my case, it is to hope that it never returns.  A race run at night to cover up the basic tediousness of the venue - if it was run in daylight, it would rival Abu Dhabi for blandness.

 

As for replacements, let's hope that something new crops up.  How about a Scottish GP at Knockhill?  Ye ken it maks sense, Jimmy.

[Risil]

They should pull a Max Mosley and threaten to send them to Ingliston. Then Knockhill will seem reasonable!

[B38]

(..my mistake,sorry)

Edited by B38, 05 June 2021 - 12:27.

[FLB]

They should pull a Max Mosley and threaten to send them to Ingliston. Then Knockhill will seem reasonable!

A race down a Croydon car park?

[AustinF1]

The "Thoughts and Prayers" Grand Prix.  No need for a permit or training in TX if you want to carry a handgun, so it's open season, umm,  every person for themselves in the great state of Better Draw First.

...and 20 other states that have had similar laws for a long time (not that I agree with them, which really doesn't matter in this thread, since it's ot).

[AustinF1]

It’s also the last year of their contract, so it remains to be seen if the race ever returns. 

Yep. COTA's last year too.

[loki]

Singapore will re-up.  The event is successful.  These types of races are more than a TV program to the west.  They’re festival events in town that encompass more than just the race.

 

Austin should return as long as FOM don’t jack the fee more than the tax rebate.  Depending on the acts they could do two concerts in a row.  It’s basically a Live Nation gig with the talent paid for out of the extra tickets.  Those coming for the concerts aren’t likely to stay for the race but I don’t think they ever do for the most part.  I don’t know if the crowd for the race two weeks in row will be that big.   Even oif they only used the amphitheater and not the festival site they could still fill it.   In Oct in Austin it’s no problem to fill two big shows on consecutive weekends.

[AustinF1]

Yeah as long as the State and the Governor are willing to pony up $25-30M in tax money every year, I'm sure F1 will gladly scoop it up. What's weird is that they refuse to give easily the two biggest events in town a dime (SXSW and ACL Fest).

[Ross Stonefeld]

Do they need the money though? And I thought the tax gold was for major sporty type stuff or other super super headline things, like the Super Bowl. 

 

So...maybe we should start working on an America's Cup bid? 

 

I really hope we don't do COTA twice, or if we absolutely must use one of the other layouts just to mix it up? 

[AustinF1]

Do they need the money though? And I thought the tax gold was for major sporty type stuff or other super super headline things, like the Super Bowl. 

 

So...maybe we should start working on an America's Cup bid? 

 

I really hope we don't do COTA twice, or if we absolutely must use one of the other layouts just to mix it up? 

The fund was actually created for events of all kinds, not just sports events. And it was used for just small events for a long, long time. Whether SXSW need the money or not is irrelevant to me - as long as the State/Governor are giving the money out for numerous other big events that certainly do not need it either, and have given COTA more than $225M so far. And then they still refused to even allow a vote for SXSW to get it, even though it passed the House and a majority of the Senate was set to approve it. Seems weird to be keeping one privately-owned business alive with massive annual funding and not giving any at all to another that would qualify and annually brings the most visitors to the State of all the big events.

 

Like you, I actually would hope they choose a different track than COTA for another race, just for the sake of variety if nothing else. The only other viable layout at COTA would be the National Circuit, which is only 2.3 miles long and features a massive bump at the kink of the cut-through, where the V8s were catching massive air even way back in 2013. It's the worst bump on a bumpy track, and has no doubt gotten a lot worse since then, like the rest of the circuit.

 

Edited by AustinF1, 05 June 2021 - 17:59.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I think the bigger problem with the COTA handout is you're really just sending that money to Liberty and eventually the teams. Though obviously taking the sanction fee burden off COTA's hands means they can make some money on the event. Though where event profit or paying back the cost of the circuit goes, is anyone's guess. How much of this money actually stays in, or benefits, Texas seems questionable. But that's always the case when the local government steps in to back a sporting event or a stadium or whatever. If they want it, they find a way to make the numbers work. 

 

eg there was a hilarious claim about the America's Cup bringing a billion dollars in value to the San Francisco Bay area 

[AustinF1]

I think the bigger problem with the COTA handout is you're really just sending that money to Liberty and eventually the teams. Though obviously taking the sanction fee burden off COTA's hands means they can make some money on the event. Though where event profit or paying back the cost of the circuit goes, is anyone's guess. How much of this money actually stays in, or benefits, Texas seems questionable. But that's always the case when the local government steps in to back a sporting event or a stadium or whatever. If they want it, they find a way to make the numbers work. 

 

eg there was a hilarious claim about the America's Cup bringing a billion dollars in value to the San Francisco Bay area 

Yep. COTA for example makes similar claims of incredible economic impact numbers that somehow dwarf economic impact claims of better-attended GPs & other huge races/events (like 10-15x as much ... $5.4 Bn economic impact in 4 years, over a million foreign/out of state visitors a year, bigger F1 impact than SXSW, ACL Fest, and Texas Football, etc).

 

Re: your point about where the money goes, yeah, exactly. For example, in COTA's case, they've always counted all the money spent on hotels, airline tickets to Austin, rental cars, etc as money their events have brought to the State of Texas. The reality is that a huge chunk of that money is actually going to big companies in other states or countries & never makes it to Texas.

 

Re: the circuit, here's a COTA variation that I wish actually existed ... :drool:

 

Edited by AustinF1, 05 June 2021 - 17:15.

[loki]

I think the bigger problem with the COTA handout is you're really just sending that money to Liberty and eventually the teams. Though obviously taking the sanction fee burden off COTA's hands means they can make some money on the event. Though where event profit or paying back the cost of the circuit goes, is anyone's guess. How much of this money actually stays in, or benefits, Texas seems questionable. But that's always the case when the local government steps in to back a sporting event or a stadium or whatever. If they want it, they find a way to make the numbers work. 

 

eg there was a hilarious claim about the America's Cup bringing a billion dollars in value to the San Francisco Bay area 

The Events Trust isn’t a direct subsidy for a set amount.  It’s a rebate of sales tax revenue during that specific period of time.  Using a state developed mechanism they calculate what they think the difference is between normal sales tax and tax for the event.  The track gets that difference.  The fund is meant to support events where other states or countries bid or otherwise compete for the event.  That’s why homegrown events like SXSW or ACL aren’t included.

[AustinF1]

The Events Trust isn’t a direct subsidy for a set amount.  It’s a rebate of sales tax revenue during that specific period of time.  Using a state developed mechanism they calculate what they think the difference is between normal sales tax and tax for the event.  The track gets that difference.  The fund is meant to support events where other states or countries bid or otherwise compete for the event.  That’s why homegrown events like SXSW or ACL aren’t included.

That's the way it was, but not any more. That's why TMS is hitting up the fund now for NASCAR races they've had for decades. Under that revision, ACL & SXSW should be able to go for the money as well. Covid showed us that there are no guarantees for them to continue on either, and I've heard whispers of other places trying to lure them away from Texas.

 

And I know they like to call it a 'rebate' now, but that word implies that someone is being given money back that they had paid in already. That's not what's happening here. There are other problems with that "incremental increase" method, which Abbott pointed out himself when he was AG -- that there's no way to tell how much incremental increase is coming from F1 & how much is coming from other big Austin events during the same month, like ACL Fest for example, which is in the same month and draws 450,000 people over 6 nights.

Edited by AustinF1, 05 June 2021 - 17:44.

[McLaren]

Oh whoops so it was, but same applies?

Not really. Vietnam like Singapore have been very strict since the initial Covid outbreak and have not allowed anyone but nationals into the country. This won't change over the coming months I am afraid.. Will be at least a year, as they are behind with their own vaccine rollout.

[f1paul]

I wonder when will we know the replacement race?

Turkey was announced pretty late as a replacement for Canada (6-7 weeks before I think). I'd have thought somewhere between Silverstone and Budapest we'll know

[alframsey]

Wouldn't mind two races at COTA as they always offer up a decent race, Turkey would be good too.

[Marklar]

Some bits from AMuS

-Istanbul, Sepang and Shanghai are potential replacements for Singapore and if needed Suzuka
-If the Olympics are happening F1 has a chance in Suzuka
-If Sao Paulo isnt happening potential replacements are a 2nd Austin, Indy or Sakhir. Qatar is mentioned too.
-no discussions with Germany
-Melbourne wants the race to happen, but the gvt is cautious. However a 2nd race on the Bend in Adelaide (omg) is also talked about

source: https://www.auto-mot...bgesagt-corona/ (the bit about Australia is on the print apparently)

Edited by Marklar, 08 June 2021 - 08:19.

[TheAviator]

Did someone mention Sepang???

[ARTGP]

Please let Sepang happen. Better that, than a second race at Cota.

Edited by ARTGP, 08 June 2021 - 08:21.

[CoolBreeze]

Sometimes I wonder where people get their news from..

 

There will not be a race in Malaysia, I can assure you of that. Presently, the country is battling a huge number of the virus, (just touched 10,000 cases few days ago with over 100 deaths in a day.

 

With the government being so clueless, the vaccination process has been slow much to the frustrations of Malaysians. There's also a complete lockdown till 14th June, and as far as I'm concerned 2021 is another write off year. As much as I

would love for Sepang to return, it ain't happening.

[pdac]

Sometimes I wonder where people get their news from..

 

They probably ask Liberty - who have market confidence and a share price to protect.

[absinthedude]

Sepang would get my approval. No objection to Istanbul either. Why not Mugello?

 

Outer circuit at Sakhir would be fun again too. I don't think we need a second race at COTA. My partner is in Texas now, moving between DFW and Austin due to visiting an unwell relative and she reports it's bloody scary, people acting like there's no virus at all...holding parties, restaurants open as if nothing happened. I get the strong impression that most American areas never had the kind of restrictions that pretty much the rest of the world has endured in the last 15-16 months. 

 

Indy might work, though something more like the 2000's F1 circuit rather than the IndyCar one?

[Tombstone]

Istanbul, but only if they can do another last-minute resurface and guarantee rain.

[BRG]

Sepang would get my approval. No objection to Istanbul either. Why not Mugello?

Wasn't Istanbul just planned and immediately dropped due to covid?  And Malaysia is a viral no-no (see #123) too.  But Mugello, yes, surely it's a no-brainer. 

 

I fear Qatar and Dubai might be looming up as options for Liberty.  

[sportyskells]

At least Qatar has lights

[PayasYouRace]

 

I fear Qatar and Dubai might be looming up as options for Liberty.  

 

Two new tracks in F1 terms. I'm up for that.

[BRG]

Two new tracks in F1 terms. I'm up for that.

Once in, we could never get rid of them again.  Do you REALLY want four GPs in the Gulf area?

 

EDIT:  Plus I forgot about Saudi Arabia!  FIVE GPs in the area!

Edited by BRG, 08 June 2021 - 11:38.

[PayasYouRace]

Once in, we could never get rid of them again.  Do you REALLY want four GPs in the Gulf area?

 

EDIT:  Plus I forgot about Saudi Arabia!  FIVE GPs in the area!

 

I don't share your pessimism. We're talking about substitute races, not permanent additions to the calendar.

[absinthedude]

While I don't recall Losail being especially memorable from the WTCC races I watched on TV, it is FIA Grade 1 and presumably available. And who knows, it might throw up a great race. We got Portimao on the calendar again because it was surprisingly popular as a stand-in last year. 

 

Turkey might have turned the tide by the autumn. We just don't know what the situation might be later in the year. Malaysia look to have just turned a corner with new cases possibly peaking so again, it might be possible in a few months....and surely no more dangerous than racing almost anywhere last year when nobody was vaccinated. 

[Clatter]

While I don't recall Losail being especially memorable from the WTCC races I watched on TV, it is FIA Grade 1 and presumably available. And who knows, it might throw up a great race. We got Portimao on the calendar again because it was surprisingly popular as a stand-in last year.

Turkey might have turned the tide by the autumn. We just don't know what the situation might be later in the year. Malaysia look to have just turned a corner with new cases possibly peaking so again, it might be possible in a few months....and surely no more dangerous than racing almost anywhere last year when nobody was vaccinated.

It's not just about whether the sport wants to go out not, but whether the countries are willing to allow them in to race.

[William Hunt]

Dubai would be great, the Asian F3 & F4 races I've seen there were awesome: fast track with lots of overtaking: completely the oposite of the races at Abu Dhabi: those are always sleep fests with hardly any overtaking

[William Hunt]

Some bits from AMuS

-Istanbul, Sepang and Shanghai are potential replacements for Singapore and if needed Suzuka
-If the Olympics are happening F1 has a chance in Suzuka
-If Sao Paulo isnt happening potential replacements are a 2nd Austin, Indy or Sakhir. Qatar is mentioned too.
-no discussions with Germany
-Melbourne wants the race to happen, but the gvt is cautious. However a 2nd race on the Bend in Adelaide (omg) is also talked about

source: https://www.auto-mot...bgesagt-corona/ (the bit about Australia is on the print apparently)

 

The Bend is a Grade 2 circuit, unless they somehow find a way to updrade that to Grade 1 (not so easy imho) I can't see that happen.

[BRG]

The Bend is a Grade 2 circuit, unless they somehow find a way to updrade that to Grade 1 (not so easy imho) I can't see that happen.

Perhaps they could build a castle and have a really narrow bit of track around it?  It worked for Baku.

[Clatter]

Perhaps they could build a castle and have a really narrow bit of track around it?  It worked for Baku.

 

Or a swimming pool.

[Goron3]

Mugello could host a race as late as early/mid October and guarantee decent weather.

[aportinga]

Double header at Mid Ohio!

 

Why on earth would that be better then Road America?

[mcjohnson]

London Street Circuit.

[BRG]

London Street Circuit.

Always a fantasy but impossible due to the law.  Now the law permits it but it is even less likely than ever - no political will, strong anti-car sentiments, no money.

[pdac]

London Street Circuit.

 

Sorry, but every time I hear mention of London ...

                   

 

(the mayor has plans to charge all cars £2 per mile to drive around London as we speak)

Edited by pdac, 29 January 2022 - 11:18.

[jonpollak]

I’m exempt…. Who wants a ride to Camden?
Only £12.75p per mile or portion there of.

Jp

[Sterzo]

I love London.

I love racing.

 

A GP on a London street circuit would be lousy for both.

[Alexis*27]

Will the Russian GP actually take place this year I wonder

[JimmyClark]

Sorry, but every time I hear mention of London ...

                   

 

(the mayor has plans to charge all cars £2 per mile to drive around London as we speak)

 

However, Khan is such a hypocritial and vain Mayor, I can actually see him supporting it. 

 

But I'm with you generally - I'll eat my hat if I see F1 having a race weekend in London (even Brands Hatch is a pipe dream now).

[Myrvold]

Will the Russian GP actually take place this year I wonder

 

Why wouldn't it.

[PayasYouRace]

Will the Russian GP actually take place this year I wonder

 

Yeah but it will be a street race in Kiev.