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What is going on with Ricciardo?


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#1 Disgrace

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 14:26

He's a multiple race-winner, was match for Max in the Red Bull and handily beat Ocon in the Renault.

 

Now he's suddenly being made to look like a chump by Norris in the McLaren. Surely nobody expected this.

 

If he was a rookie, he'd be written off. What is going on here? Is his seat at risk?



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#2 anyeis

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 14:27

Not adaptable enough. Few drivers are


Edited by anyeis, 03 July 2021 - 14:28.


#3 Piif

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 14:29

Well, his seat SHOULD be at risk. He is an experienced driver who should be able to perform better. He gets paid a #1 driver salary and the expectations are for him to be at least able to compete with his teammate. But he can't. At the moment, he's a waste of an excellent seat.



#4 Scaboo22

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 14:40

I’m fairly certain he earns a lot more than Lando, so McLaren will soon be forced to ask some very tough questions.

#5 FLB

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 14:44

I’m fairly certain he earns a lot more than Lando, so McLaren will soon be forced to ask some very tough questions.

Scratch 'soon'. I think it's already begun.



#6 OvDrone

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 14:44

Ohoh, we're officially in a Defcon-Albon emergency alert state as we're starting to have single threads about it.

 

Dannyboy, I am also having strong 'Jack title contender Miller' harsh vibes from all the online articles we had before the season began.



#7 masa90

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 14:44

He is safe this year. But if next year starts bad he is in trouble really.


Edited by masa90, 03 July 2021 - 15:07.


#8 FLB

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 14:46

Ohoh, we're officially in a Defcon-Albon emergency alert state as we're starting to have single threads about it.

 

I don't thing we're *quite* there yet, but this is getting beyond 'not good'.



#9 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 14:47

Should have never ever left Red Bull… That car was brilliant for his style and he was more than holding his own against Max even if he was maybe missing that last tenth or two to beat him over time. I think he will look back in regret realising what he had and gave up.

#10 blacky

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 14:52

Not adaptable enough. Few drivers are

So it is. RBR gave him a great car. He had problems in his first Renault year and has in his first McLaren year. Maybe he is great again with the new regs. Simply Not an A driver.



#11 Clrnc

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 14:54

This season is a write off for him. It happens even to the best drivers if the cars are not to their liking. 

 

Next season with an all new designed Mclaren which he has input in it will be back to normal. 



#12 Piif

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 15:06

This season is a write off for him. It happens even to the best drivers if the cars are not to their liking.

Next season with an all new designed Mclaren which he has input in it will be back to normal.


If I was the head of design at McLaren, I'd listen to more what Norris asks for tbh.

#13 Cliff

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 15:10

Next season is a new era with cars that will have to be drive completely different. I wouldn't be surprised that after being smashed by Norris this year, he will beat him next year with new regulations. People are getting way ahead of themselves.



#14 Piif

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 15:12

Next season is a new era with cars that will have to be drive completely different. I wouldn't be surprised that after being smashed by Norris this year, he will beat him next year with new regulations. People are getting way ahead of themselves.


I for one would be very surprised. I can only see Lando getting stronger and stronger. If this continues into next year, Ricciardo's done.

#15 Claudius

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 15:15

It's one thing to be behind your teammate, he is trailing way back.

And there doesn't seem to be an end in sight to his woes.

 

I think he's safe this year but if this continues next season I wonder if Mac will give him the boot mid-season.



#16 flingsofdeon

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 15:21

Is his contract two or three years? Just a bit stunned by how Lando has demolished him…

If it doesn’t work out, where would Daniel go?

#17 absinthedude

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 15:22

Dan is clearly better than he's able to show right now. Even if Lando is better, he's not 10 places on the grid better. Dan is not quite in Max and Lewis' class but he's a *very* fine F1 driver with multiple wins and who has proved he can challenge for the title. There's a chance that Lando is better, but Dan is still a top driver. 

 

So there's more at play here than the experienced guy getting his arse handed to him by a young guy. The car clearly doesn't work for RIcciardo. He's not yet been able to adapt to it and has generally been significantly behind Norris. Perhaps he's not gelling with the team and his engineer too. And perhaps he's struggling with all this mentally too. 

 

We all know he's a fantastic driver. Even if Norris turns out to be the next "big thing", Dan wouldn't be far behind. He's held his own against Sebastian Vettel and Max Verstappen. 


Edited by absinthedude, 03 July 2021 - 15:23.


#18 Quickshifter

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 15:23

Not adaptable enough. Few drivers are

That's the bottom line. He can be seriously quick when the car tows the party line but struggles massively when he has to drive around quirks.

#19 Alfisti

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 15:53

Whats alarming is he feels the laps are fine, he is not binning it, not ragged, just pace not there.

Even in sim racing that is discouraging cos you have nowhere to go. Like WHERE is that half second coming from?

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#20 vlado

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 16:13

If he keeps this up his salary should  be adjusted or just get another driver in there. 



#21 vlado

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 16:15

There's a chance that Lando is better, but Dan is still a top driver. 

 

 

Norris is better. I hope they get another year together so we can clearly see it. 



#22 Paco

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 16:25

Unadaptable. 1 trick poney it seems. Shocking he seems to be able to brake only 1 specific way or else he cant handle the car.

Edited by Paco, 04 July 2021 - 11:55.


#23 A3

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 16:26

Whats alarming is he feels the laps are fine, he is not binning it, not ragged, just pace not there.

Even in sim racing that is discouraging cos you have nowhere to go. Like WHERE is that half second coming from?

 

It's always in the braking.



#24 danmills

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 16:47

I think the bigger question is just how good is Lando? I doubted Lando massively, and I accept I must eat my words, he's an absolute star.

#25 Astandahl

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 16:50

The car requires a different driving style.

Ricciardo can't match Lando by copying his approach.



#26 PayasYouRace

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 16:56

Next season is a new era with cars that will have to be drive completely different. I wouldn't be surprised that after being smashed by Norris this year, he will beat him next year with new regulations. People are getting way ahead of themselves.

 

With these two, unless one is having serious issues like Dan is this year, neither would smash the other.



#27 milestone 11

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 17:09

I for one would be very surprised. I can only see Lando getting stronger and stronger. If this continues into next year, Ricciardo's done.

I doubt it will get to next year.

#28 ARTGP

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 17:13

Dan is clearly better than he's able to show right now. Even if Lando is better, he's not 10 places on the grid better. Dan is not quite in Max and Lewis' class but he's a *very* fine F1 driver with multiple wins and who has proved he can challenge for the title. There's a chance that Lando is better, but Dan is still a top driver. 

 

So there's more at play here than the experienced guy getting his arse handed to him by a young guy. The car clearly doesn't work for RIcciardo. He's not yet been able to adapt to it and has generally been significantly behind Norris. Perhaps he's not gelling with the team and his engineer too. And perhaps he's struggling with all this mentally too. 

 

 

Worryingly, this is all contrary to what Ricciardo has been saying in the interviews. He's not struggling to keep the car in his control. He's not fighting it and he's not binning it or anything. He's been saying the balance is good and that he felt the lap was really good, but then he looks at the stopwatch and it's like oof, I'm way off my teammate..


Edited by ARTGP, 03 July 2021 - 17:17.


#29 HammyHamiltonFan

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 17:17

1) struggling to adjust to a new team/car, it took him the better part of a season to do so at Renault as well IIRC.

 

2) Lando is coming of age and finally realising some of his potential, so is probably legitimately ahead of Danny Ric now imo

 

3) unlike at Renault where he was brought into to be there main man, at McLaren Lando has been there for years and is seen by them as their future, it's probably a big culture change for him to not be the outright main guy in the team, that's probably part of why he left Red Bull as well.



#30 Wingcommander

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 17:19

He's quickly becoming a has been.



#31 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 17:19

Worryingly, this is all contrary to what Ricciardo has been saying in the interviews. He's not struggling to keep the car in his control. He's not fighting it and he's not binning it or anything. He's been saying the balance is good and that he felt the lap was really good, but then he looks at the stopwatch and it's like oof, I'm way off my teammate..


Exactly. Pretty worrying that you feel great coming out of the car until you check the timesheets.

#32 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 17:24

1) struggling to adjust to a new team/car, it took him the better part of a season to do so at Renault as well IIRC.

2) Lando is coming of age and finally realising some of his potential, so is probably legitimately ahead of Danny Ric now imo

3) unlike at Renault where he was brought into to be there main man, at McLaren Lando has been there for years and is seen by them as their future, it's probably a big culture change for him to not be the outright main guy in the team, that's probably part of why he left Red Bull as well.


I don’t think number 3 holds true at all. I remember people saying in preseason how relaxed and confident Daniel looked in contrast to Lando who looked frustrated at the team dynamics seemingly having moved from two equal status drivers to one where one was considered the star driver and it was up to Lando to prove himself worthy of the seat. A lot has changed in a very short time.

#33 Rumblestrip

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 17:37

I don’t think number 3 holds true at all. I remember people saying in preseason how relaxed and confident Daniel looked in contrast to Lando who looked frustrated at the team dynamics seemingly having moved from two equal status drivers to one where one was considered the star driver and it was up to Lando to prove himself worthy of the seat. A lot has changed in a very short time.

 

That was my understanding as well. Looking at the other new-starts on the grid a few races to get into the groove was a reasonable allowance, but I think we've moved beyond that now.

 

As a worse-case-scenario I assume there are standard contractual performance clauses on Dans side as well as McLarens.



#34 ARTGP

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 17:41

I don’t think number 3 holds true at all. I remember people saying in preseason how relaxed and confident Daniel looked in contrast to Lando who looked frustrated at the team dynamics seemingly having moved from two equal status drivers to one where one was considered the star driver and it was up to Lando to prove himself worthy of the seat. A lot has changed in a very short time.

 

I think it holds a little bit. Lando did look a bit tense earlier in the season. He looked like someone whose seat at the dinner table had been stolen perhaps because it was widely expected that he'd get drubbed by Daniel in his own team...Daniel is being paid FAR more than Lando which shows you who Mclaren expected to be leading the team and the salary discrepancy won't have gone unnoticed with Lando as salary is associated with how the team values you....It sucks to know the team values another more than you.

 

I think the dynamic between the two has changed now that Daniel hasn't made the progress that others like Alonso, Vettel, and Perez have. Lando is feeling confident, dominant, and a bit warmer. It's a positive feedback loop so Lando is getting more dangerous with every passing race weekend.  Now Ricciardo is probably starting to feel exactly like he felt at Red Bull. Like the "old guy" that isn't the center of the team.  To there credit, Mclaren don't appear to have made any awkward statements such as "We want to make Lando Norris the youngest WDC" in earshot of the other driver which must have been a tad disheartening for Daniel at that time. Daniel made a very particular comment when he joined Renault to effect of basically saying he liked that Nico was the older driver, because he hates feeling like the "older guy" in the team.  I believe he came to Mclaren expecting to emulate that center of attention role he had at Renault. Unfortunately, I don't believe Lando Norris will ever allow him that. 


Edited by ARTGP, 03 July 2021 - 17:44.


#35 ForzaFormula

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 17:42

Should have never ever left Red Bull… That car was brilliant for his style and he was more than holding his own against Max even if he was maybe missing that last tenth or two to beat him over time. I think he will look back in regret realising what he had and gave up.

 

The team was building around Max and was never going to work with Dan there, he was never going to accept to eventually being a support role figure, so it was never going to work. He seemed to do good at Renault regardless, and McLaren could be on the way back to the front now also, so if he can figure it out by the end of the year and for next year he's at a good place, they could well be challenging RB next season.



#36 Cliff

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 17:46

With these two, unless one is having serious issues like Dan is this year, neither would smash the other.

 

I agree nobody would smash anybody between these two when they are both comfortable. But Lando was pretty much even with Sainz who I think is just below top tier. Sure Lando is getting better and better but you are not suddenly 5 tenths quicker a season later. I definitely rate Daniel above Carlos, these 8 bad races won't change that.



#37 Piif

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 17:52

I've rated Sainz for a couple of years now. Atm he's definetely better than Ricciardo.

#38 garoidb

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 17:54

The team was building around Max and was never going to work with Dan there, he was never going to accept to eventually being a support role figure, so it was never going to work. He seemed to do good at Renault regardless, and McLaren could be on the way back to the front now also, so if he can figure it out by the end of the year and for next year he's at a good place, they could well be challenging RB next season.

 

Also, he will have made a lot more money with his Renault and McLaren contracts. 



#39 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 18:03

The team was building around Max and was never going to work with Dan there, he was never going to accept to eventually being a support role figure, so it was never going to work. He seemed to do good at Renault regardless, and McLaren could be on the way back to the front now also, so if he can figure it out by the end of the year and for next year he's at a good place, they could well be challenging RB next season.

So what gives if McLaren build a rocketship for 2022 and Lando continues to dominate him, forcing him in the same situation he left Red Bull for?

I think it’s easy to forget Daniel was Red Bull’s goose with the golden eggs after 2014. He beat Vettel and won three races in an underpowered car. Then came Kvyat who outscored him a bit luckily, but Daniel’s stock was sky high. It was in this team that Max entered the scene in 2016. Red Bull did not immediately build the team around him (that infamous quote referred to his side of the garage); Red Bull were a team with two equal status drivers who were free to battle each other on track. May the best man win. Unfortunately for Daniel, the days where he won became less and less frequent even if the margins were small.

Then came summer 2018, the upcoming announcement of the Honda deal following the successful proof of concept with Toro Rosso and contract negotiations with both drivers. I think Max simply showed more eagerness to sign on and more belief in the project, whereas Daniel wanted to keep his options open for longer (Mercedes?). In the end he decided to move to Renault even when Red Bull offered him a financially better/equal deal.

To this day I don’t understand this move. Daniel had felt the frustration of Renault power units under-delivering for years and yet when Red Bull set way on their course that sees them heading both championships today he opted to leave for Renault. I honestly believe that both Red Bull and Ricciardo himself would have been far better of had he chosen to stay and commit to this project. An Alonsoesque decision if you ask me, but alas irreversible.

Having said that, I still love Daniel as a driver and as a character. He’s better than this and I hope he finds his way out of this career slump quickly. That McLaren looks a very handy car - a driver of Daniel’s competence should have it on the podium regularly.

Edited by FullOppositeLock, 03 July 2021 - 18:17.


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#40 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 18:04

Also, he will have made a lot more money with his Renault and McLaren contracts.


Red Bull matched his Renault offer. Who knows what McLaren pay him, but I doubt he’s anywhere to reaching his bonus targets.

#41 noikeee

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 18:24

It's classic "car doesn't match the driving style", the sheer scale of the handicap is what's weird. It looks more like what we often see in MotoGP, like idk, Lorenzo being a backmarker for Honda or in his early days for Ducati, than what we usually see in F1. This is bad.

 

It's particularly weird because there's nothing in Dan's history that would lead us to think he wouldn't adapt anywhere. HRT? Solid. Toro Rosso? Yes. Red Bull? Brilliant. Renault? Started off a tenth behind Hulkenberg but by midseason was ahead. But now he's nowhere at all. Odd.



#42 charly0418

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 18:31

He should start having the approach Perez is having this season. Accept you’re never going to beat your teammate this year, adapt your driving style to his setup and get as close as you can to him by pretty much copying him. Next year you can start from scratch

#43 Larunss

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 18:32

Seems as bad or even worse than Kimis 2014 campaign.
A few glimpses of hope (like France) followed by an absolute disaster in Austria.
He's now got to somehow survive this year and hope that the new regulations suit his style.

This just shows how sometimes if the driver style and car characteristics do not gel it ends up in a total disaster, especially for unadaptable drivers.

The big winner out of this mess is Lando...

#44 Rumblestrip

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 18:37

He should start having the approach Perez is having this season. Accept you’re never going to beat your teammate this year, adapt your driving style to his setup and get as close as you can to him by pretty much copying him. Next year you can start from scratch

 

I actually thought that was what he's been trying to do.



#45 ARTGP

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 18:39

To this day I don’t understand this move. Daniel had felt the frustration of Renault power units under-delivering for years and yet when Red Bull set way on their course that sees them heading both championships today he opted to leave for Renault. I honestly believe that both Red Bull and Ricciardo himself would have been far better of had he chosen to stay and commit to this project. An Alonsoesque decision if you ask me, but alas irreversible.

 

I don't quite think Ricciardo's seat swaps are Alonso-esque and I'm not sure what Alonsesque refers to (well I am, but I don't buy that there's such a thing). Alonso moving to Mclaren for '07 was right on the money. Alonso leaving Mclaren at the end of '07 was forced considering the spygate fallout. There's hardly a pattern of poor decision making, but rather some coincidences that certain teams had a turn in form after he made a rational and mutual decision to leave those teams. 5 dutiful years at Ferrari without the title and who could blame him for the relationship going stale?  Waiting on '17 would put him at 7 years of waiting. Most drivers would leave by then with no bridges burned and without being accused of being impatient. Another 4 dutiful years with uncompetitive Mclarens and he rationally chooses to take a break. After recharging the batteries he takes what he can get with Renault now.  I've never really believed in a narrative about Alonso poor decision making. I've felt all his decisions were sound. The team success afterwards is just coincidence but nobody begrudged Alonso at the time for leaving. It's only with hindsight that people now say he made a bad move but that's simply not a fair way to judge it. Remaining in the moment (end of '07, end of '09, end of '14, end of '18) is the best way to judge it and they were sensible decisions at the time.

 

As for Daniel, he did spend 5 dutiful years at Red Bull without any hope of a title. I don't begrudge a driver just wanting to try something else. Some people just don't like to hold the same job and see the same people forever. It happens. It's the sideways move to Mclaren that is the questionable one for me. That was too short of a run to bail after 2 years when he had the team wrapped around his thumb, was the clear team leader, and his stock was sky high. Alpine have just as much a shot in '22 as Mclaren do or arguably better given their ability to produce their own power unit (not saying Alpine will beat Mclaren next year, but the development window is bigger at Alpine since they can have there way with the engine).


Edited by ARTGP, 03 July 2021 - 18:58.


#46 IrvTheSwerve

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 18:46

If he keeps this up his salary should  be adjusted or just get another driver in there. 

Both parties agreed to the contract, tough luck. 



#47 Baddoer

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 18:48

Dude is just finished. Feel sorry for him.



#48 ARTGP

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 18:59

Both parties agreed to the contract, tough luck. 

 

Which most likely has performance clauses for better or worse driving than anticipated. Teams have themselves covered. 


Edited by ARTGP, 03 July 2021 - 19:00.


#49 Astandahl

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 19:48

People thinking that Danny Ric just got this slow from 2020 to 2021 don't understand anything about Formula 1.

We can say that he can't adapt to the MCL 35M, that's for sure.



#50 cpbell

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Posted 03 July 2021 - 19:52

It's classic "car doesn't match the driving style", the sheer scale of the handicap is what's weird. It looks more like what we often see in MotoGP, like idk, Lorenzo being a backmarker for Honda or in his early days for Ducati, than what we usually see in F1. This is bad.

 

It's particularly weird because there's nothing in Dan's history that would lead us to think he wouldn't adapt anywhere. HRT? Solid. Toro Rosso? Yes. Red Bull? Brilliant. Renault? Started off a tenth behind Hulkenberg but by midseason was ahead. But now he's nowhere at all. Odd.

Agreed, it's strange.