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Sprint Races after the first one: Yes or No


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Poll: Sprint Races after the first one: Yes or No (558 member(s) have cast votes)

After today's Sprint Race, do you think Sprint Races are a good thing for F1?

  1. Yes (149 votes [26.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.70%

  2. No (409 votes [73.30%])

    Percentage of vote: 73.30%

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#1001 zanquis

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Posted 02 November 2021 - 15:37

To me the sprintraces are the worst thing of 2021. Every last one of them have been a dissaster.

Simply put they did what the mainrace should have been.

Silverstone: what happened at the sprintrace should have been the main race. Basically USA GP in reverse, Verstapen snatch lead from Hamilton, And to catch Verstappen Hamilton would have to employ an aggressive tactic.
Now because of the sprintrace Hamilton knew he had to beat Max in lap 1 or else have an extremely hard race. he knew He couldn't just go outside so had to dive deeper inside and take massive risk.
The result was a race only the most pessimistic person would think was exiting as it was a guaranteed win for Hamilton even with a penalty as there was no way a Ferrari could really hold him of when pushing.
This sprintrace was a loss for the sport.

Monza: We would have had Hamilton fumble his start and then a hard time to fight back, it could have been a great drive by Lewis.
Now we had basically a restart where the advantage of Max was gone, Lewis recovered a bit and the winner of the first start suffered now a bit.
Sure we got a 1-2 for the most likeable pairing in F1 but the overall feeling is that we didn't get the race this could have been. 

And all of that could have been forgiven if they didn't do that ridicilous thing of renaming the price for winning Q3 to "Speed king" and give the "Pirelli tire prize" to the winner of the sprint.
NO the winner of the Q3 shoudl get the pole award price and credits cause he did exactly what every other pole winner did. And the winner of the Sprintrace should get a special title.
It is just mind blowingly stupid. Honestly it is the biggest failure of F1 ever since the 2017 rules update of "how to ruin racing even more." 

Also the whole FP3 after the qualifing..  :stoned:  Mindblowingly stupidity at its best.


The fact that the real fans didn't turn it off doesn't mean they are fascinated by it.. they are the real fans and will watch whatever their favorite drivers do. including free practice and something stupid as a sprint race. It doesn't mean they automatically like it.
Odds are if you give them a race in shopping carts we probably watch it to support our drivers, not to support the shopping carts race. 


Edited by zanquis, 02 November 2021 - 15:42.


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#1002 Rodaknee

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Posted 02 November 2021 - 15:55

https://www.racefans...-three-against/

 

He keeps lying. I'm willing to bet a tenner that I am not the only one boycotting this monstrosity

Can f1 make money from the 'casual fan'?  There may be a few hundred thousand who watch F1highlights on Ch4, who can dip in and out of watching, but from what I can gather, in most other countries there are little or no FTA broadcasts of F1.  If you want to watch F1, you have to pay.  With so many pay channels being forced on us, some will go bust.  It's happened in the past and will happen again.  When the casual viewer bubble bursts, where will F1 be then?



#1003 ARTGP

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Posted 02 November 2021 - 16:14

Can f1 make money from the 'casual fan'?  There may be a few hundred thousand who watch F1highlights on Ch4, who can dip in and out of watching, but from what I can gather, in most other countries there are little or no FTA broadcasts of F1.  If you want to watch F1, you have to pay.  With so many pay channels being forced on us, some will go bust.  It's happened in the past and will happen again.  When the casual viewer bubble bursts, where will F1 be then?

 

Brawn seems clueless in this aspect. Yes, F1 could turn itself into a football league and make more money.....But is that what F1 should be? Of course not.


Edited by ARTGP, 02 November 2021 - 16:16.


#1004 azza200

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Posted 02 November 2021 - 16:20

Brawn seems clueless in this aspect. Yes, F1 could turn itself into a football league and make more money.....But is that what F1 should be? Of course not.

 

 

Only matter of time before they bring in Nascar style play-off's 



#1005 ThadGreen

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Posted 02 November 2021 - 18:24

Nope if i want to watch more racing i will watch BTCC IMSA WEC GTWC Indycar.


If I wanted to be flippant I could say "don't let the door hit your butt on the way out".

 

Sprint Races make F1 just makes F1 lose more of its identity FOM have no clear direction to take F1 yes glamming it up for the americans but its losing its core identity 25 races plus 6 sprint races is ridiculous.


I think F1 has changed a lot over the years and is still changing. Remember when we had a warmup session on Sunday morning? Remember when the cars had three pedals and a gear stick? What about the Non-championship races? And when was the first US GP? And what if tracks like Spa disappear from the schedule because of loss of income, income which could possibly have been generated with fans attending the entire weekend instead of just race day? 

 

F1 has always been a european sport and has never had extra races "for the show and tv" that is what support races at GP weekends are for before the big main race on Sunday. Sprint races dilute and weaken the actual grand prix.


European sport huh? Remember Argentine, Brazil, South Africa, US, Canada and Non-championship races?. And how can it be a WORLD Championship if it is confined to Europe? How many GPs do you attend each year? The only way I watch a GP weekend is on the TV and if the TV showed the support races perhaps, and it's a big perhaps, I would change my opinion of Sprint races.



#1006 ThadGreen

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Posted 02 November 2021 - 18:35

no.

 

And that's been proven already. The main effect of the (rather boring) sprint races has been to cast a light over the race trim performances of the cars to the detriment of the grand prix proper. 

 

More races does not mean better races. It's not a case of "never mind the quality, feel the width"....or shouldn't be. 

 

How has it been proven? Do we know the receipts from the track owners from the tracks that had a sprint race this year compared to previous years?

 

Of course more races will improve the quality. If you think that only x% of 20 races are "better races" then more races will increase that result. 



#1007 azza200

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Posted 02 November 2021 - 21:12

If I wanted to be flippant I could say "don't let the door hit your butt on the way out".

 


I think F1 has changed a lot over the years and is still changing. Remember when we had a warmup session on Sunday morning? Remember when the cars had three pedals and a gear stick? What about the Non-championship races? And when was the first US GP? And what if tracks like Spa disappear from the schedule because of loss of income, income which could possibly have been generated with fans attending the entire weekend instead of just race day? 

 


European sport huh? Remember Argentine, Brazil, South Africa, US, Canada and Non-championship races?. And how can it be a WORLD Championship if it is confined to Europe? How many GPs do you attend each year? The only way I watch a GP weekend is on the TV and if the TV showed the support races perhaps, and it's a big perhaps, I would change my opinion of Sprint races.

 

what i mean by that is a lot of the races were based in Europe except for the fly away races Aus, Brazil, Japan, Canada, US etc but most of the rest of the season were all in Europe which is a large portion of the world last time i looked still a world championship series. Most of the teams are European  UK based its only the last 10-15 years the fly away race weekends have doubled along with season length 



#1008 ThadGreen

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Posted 02 November 2021 - 22:13

what i mean by that is a lot of the races were based in Europe except for the fly away races Aus, Brazil, Japan, Canada, US etc but most of the rest of the season were all in Europe which is a large portion of the world last time i looked still a world championship series. Most of the teams are European  UK based its only the last 10-15 years the fly away race weekends have doubled along with season length 

 

Your response, in addition to having some geographical inaccuracies, is dragging the conversation off topic. You have responded to three (3) words from my post and ran on that..

 

Sprint races are a change in format for the F1 weekend. I feel it is a positive change because we see more racing and the potential for increased revenue for the track owners. Look back to say the 1971 season, 50 years ago. There were 11 Championship races, three in non-European countries, South Africa, Canada and the US. There were eight Non-championship races, six in Europe, one in Argentina and one in the US. Things change and sprint are just that, a change in the F1 weekend format. 



#1009 ANF

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Posted 02 November 2021 - 23:38

Things change and sprint are just that, a change in the F1 weekend format.

It's not a change for the better. But you don't seem to understand that.



#1010 absinthedude

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Posted 03 November 2021 - 06:20

How has it been proven? Do we know the receipts from the track owners from the tracks that had a sprint race this year compared to previous years?

 

Of course more races will improve the quality. If you think that only x% of 20 races are "better races" then more races will increase that result. 

 

What a load of dingo's kidneys.

 

And that is by far the most polite thing I can think of to say.



#1011 kumo7

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Posted 03 November 2021 - 07:32

SO far, the equivalence is:

 

mini race = more race = more money = good

 

Obviously,

 

Human Being have a head, insects have head, which does not mean human being is an insect...



#1012 PayasYouRace

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Posted 03 November 2021 - 08:01

It's not a change for the better. But you don't seem to understand that.

 

You can't tell people that the change isn't something they like better. Fair enough not liking it, but please try to separate fact from opinion.

 

Some of us have enjoyed the new format. We're definitely in a minority on here, but I can't agree that it's not a change for the better.



#1013 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 03 November 2021 - 08:15

Part of the problem here is that us die hard-fans... 

 

A) ...aren't numerous enough

B) ...will still watch.

 

Ergo; there are no incentives to refrain from adjustments that disappoint us if there are gains to be made in other demographics.


Edited by Rediscoveryx, 03 November 2021 - 08:15.


#1014 tyker

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Posted 03 November 2021 - 13:49

https://www.racefans...-three-against/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He keeps lying. I'm willing to bet a tenner that I am not the only one boycotting this monstrosity

It was quite interesting when they showed the sprint races was at at time when there was no other competing sports, Silverstone when other sports were on a summer break, and then Italy with a delayed start so it didn't clash with any football games or MotoGP, Brazil which is run in the evening in Europe probably also will not clash with other sports.

 

In contrast normal qualifying doesn't concern itself with other clashing events such is the strength of that particular product.



#1015 ANF

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Posted 03 November 2021 - 16:13

You can't tell people that the change isn't something they like better. Fair enough not liking it, but please try to separate fact from opinion.
 
Some of us have enjoyed the new format. We're definitely in a minority on here, but I can't agree that it's not a change for the better.

I can do that, 'cause I did. :p



#1016 FNG

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Posted 03 November 2021 - 16:56

I love the sprint race format. BUT and it's a big but! Only 3 weekends a year. Leave it up to F1 to screw it up eh? A lot of people said they like it so now they are talking 6-8 or maybe more? Nooooooo. Leave it as a novelty to spice up the year a bit. 3 only. Don't be stupid.



#1017 Claudius

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Posted 03 November 2021 - 20:04

I’m just wondering where this will land eventually.
6 races a year, 15 races a year or a regular feature all racing weekends.

If it is the first one it’ll be ok with me. But 10+ would be a mistake.

#1018 ARTGP

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Posted 03 November 2021 - 20:13

I love the sprint race format. BUT and it's a big but! Only 3 weekends a year. Leave it up to F1 to screw it up eh? A lot of people said they like it so now they are talking 6-8 or maybe more? Nooooooo. Leave it as a novelty to spice up the year a bit. 3 only. Don't be stupid.

 

F1 would probably increase the calendar to 30 races to restore that novelty factor with 6 sprint races.


Edited by ARTGP, 03 November 2021 - 20:15.


#1019 absinthedude

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Posted 03 November 2021 - 20:28

https://www.racefans...-three-against/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He keeps lying. I'm willing to bet a tenner that I am not the only one boycotting this monstrosity

 

I'm prepared to agree and say that he's lying. 

 

The feedback clearly shows it is more than "avid fans" (thanks for insulting the people who have been supporting your sport for decades, really classy) don't like this. They couldn't get a majority in favour on the F1 survey, and that is not made up of poeple who have been watching 20 years plus. 

 

He seems to think the fact that people didn't turn off means we're all "fascinated" and liked what we saw. Nope, many people just watched because they'd normally watch qualifying and there was perhaps nothing much in competition. Once one has started, perhaps out of initial curiosity, one might as well see the wretched thing through. If I've taken the effort to clear my afternoon in order to watch the F1...I may as well watch it. And if I am going to offer an authoritative opinion on how good or otherwise it was.....I need to watch it. 

 

Apparently "normal" people loved it....thanks again for an insult, Ross. It's quite clear your agenda is to push this and you don't give a stuff about those of us who put you where you are by supporting the sport through the good times and bad, over decades. 

 

I'll watch some of the end of this season, and a few races next year that lie on convenient weekends. But my priorities will be elsewhere. After some 43 years, that ought to worry F1 bosses. Because these "new fans" may go as soon as they came when they realise it's not as dramatic as Netflix makes out, and the sprint races don't actually improve the weekend.....you lose them and you've pissed off a considerable proportion of your traditional (sorry "avid") fans....what's left?



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#1020 F1 Mike

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Posted 03 November 2021 - 22:10

What makes it even more ridiculous is that any new fans watching channel 4 highlights got to see a butchered highlights reel of Friday qualifying - no real feel of who was doing well over one lap

#1021 ensign14

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Posted 03 November 2021 - 23:43

But of course Brawn is going to emit terminological inexactitudes.  Because the alleged media refuse to do their ****ing jobs.  Has any one of the myriad of parasitic sycophants asked Brawn the very simple question of "name six people in favour"?



#1022 Planetdune

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Posted 04 November 2021 - 00:10

I liked the sprint races. Just make sure the pole is the one fastest in the Q and award a few more points and we are set.



#1023 Ruusperi

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Posted 04 November 2021 - 16:29

https://www.racefans...e-sprint-races/

 

 

Formula 1’s planned change to its sprint format next year faces an unusual problem: Avoiding a mass mid-race withdrawal of multiple cars.

The planned change has other challenging implications F1 needs to address.

Following the trial of three sprint events this year, six more are planned for the 2022 F1 season. But their exact format remains under discussion and subject to approval.

Following negative feedback from drivers and fans, F1 intends to end the practice of using ‘sprint qualifying’ to set the grid for the grand prix. Regular qualifying sessions will be used, as at other rounds of the championship.

The short Saturday races will therefore become stand-alone events. But F1 realises that if these races are no longer being used to determine the grid, teams need a further incentive to participate.

As it stands, only the top three finishers in sprint events score points. This may have to be extended, as F1’s motorsport director Ross Brawn acknowledged earlier this week.

“At the moment setting the qualifying for Sunday means every position in the sprint is relevant,” he said. “So if you let a position slide in the sprint on a Saturday then you’re going to start one place further back. So there’s an incentive from the front to the back.”

Ensuring all drivers have a reason to compete in a sprint race is more complicated than it may appear. In a grand prix, non-scoring finishes outside the top 10 still count towards championship placings.

This is why, for example, Mick Schumacher leads Robert Kubica and Nikita Mazepin in the standings, despite none having scored any points. While lower-order positions in the drivers championship may seem unimportant, the same detail applies to the constructors’ championship, and finishes outside the top 10 in the past have determined which team receives millions of pounds in prize money.

But ascribing a value to finishes outside the top 10 in a sprint race the same way will be difficult. For example, it would be unfair to give 11th place in a grand prix equal weight in the championship to 11th place in a one-third distance sprint race.

This is one of the problems Brawn and his team are now grappling with. “If you have a stand-alone race on a Saturday with points for the top 10, what’s the incentive for the bottom 10?” he said.

Failing to reward those who finish in the bottom half of the field in a stand-alone sprint race, or giving too low a reward, will result in teams parking their cars instead of competing.

 

“In the real race there is some incentive because finishing orders could count towards championship positions,” said Brawn. “So how would you deal with a sprint where only the top six or eight or 10 get a reward? Because the bottom 10, after a while, would decide this isn’t worth doing.”

Brawn admits F1 doesn’t have a solution in mind for this problem yet, and one may be hard to come by.

“There’s quite a lot of consideration to be put into how you would configure a stand-alone race and not cannibalise the main race, but also make it a race worth having. And I think we’re some way from really being able to conclude or decide what that should be or if it should even happen.”

If F1 were to offer more points for lower-order finishing positions in sprint races, the points system for the grand prix may have to be revised. For example, if each finishing position is to be worth at least one point more than the next, a sprint race win would have to be valued at least 19 points, which is only six points less than a grand prix win at present.

That would leave a grand prix win grossly under-valued. What could it be increased to? Brawn has previously indicated he believes sprint race points should be proportional to those scored in a grand prix, which is three times the distance. Therefore, a grand prix win would have be valued at no less than 57 points, more than twice what they are now.

Alternatively, F1 could introduce a flatter points system for the sprint races, offering the same number of points for multiple positions, and bring the value of a win down to around a third of a current grand prix victory (8.3 points). Either option would be a significant departure, and F1’s third change to its points system in four years.

Other significant questions about the proposed sprint race format remain unanswered. Notably, how would the grid for this race be set?

Brawn remains “quite excited” by the possibility of using a reverse grid but F1’s recent fan survey indicated the idea is disastrously unpopular: 68% of fans opposed it. “I think it would be perhaps a step too far,” Brawn conceded.

 

By separating the result of the sprint race from the grid for Sunday’s grand prix, F1 also has the opportunity to change the order of events during the weekend. Qualifying at sprint events could move to Saturday, bringing the benefit of consistency with all other rounds of the championship, and the sprint race take place on Friday.

“That’s an option, albeit not one that we’d considered,” said Brawn when the possibility was put to him. “But certainly one that, if it was stand-alone and you didn’t have the sequencing, then theoretically that would be possible.

“We’d look at how that will all join together but definitely if it’s a stand-alone event there’s no reason why it couldn’t.”

Another consequence of increasing the number of sprint races and awarding more points for them is a higher chance that the world championship would not be decided during a grand prix. This is a possibility Brawn is prepared to accept.

“We’d all love a cliff-hanger last race of the season,” he said. “Maybe we’ll get one this year, which would be fantastic.

“But if a driver could win the championship on a Saturday with a sprint and somebody needed to stop him then that would be a pretty exciting aspect to it. It could certainly bring a new nuance to it.

“We’d all like to see the championship won on the last Sunday of the season. But it doesn’t very often happen. So I think it will have a general impact on the races we choose, but we won’t be pushing the last event so far forward that it couldn’t possibly happen.”

Brawn may not be concerned by that possibility but FIA president Jean Todt may well be. Todt is not a fan of the sprint format, objects to it being described as a race and is concerned with preserving the ‘image and credibility of the championship’. A title being decided on a Saturday – or even a Friday – surely wouldn’t fit with that.

But Todt’s final term as FIA president will end before the 2022 season begins. Perhaps Brawn is banking on his successor being more willing to accept the kind of radical changes F1’s plans for its sprint format appear to be pointing towards.

It's a total mess.  :evil:  Can't they just admit their mistakes and forget the whole thing, like they did with that qualifying fiasco in 2016?

So much effort is now wasted for solving problems, that didn't exist in the first place. Brawn should concentrate on real issues that has remained untouched for years, but no.

 

Ten years from now we will watch a Netflix documentary that is titled: "Story of the people who killed Formula One."


Edited by Ruusperi, 04 November 2021 - 16:34.


#1024 Larunss

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Posted 04 November 2021 - 16:40

I am for sprint races fundamentally because we get to see more racing. Doesn't everyone benefit from more racing? So we lose one free practice session, are all the cars on the track all the time during the session?

 

Also there is more incentive for fans to attend all three days of the event thus providing the track owners with the potential of more revenue. I have heard rumors that certain tracks may be dropped from the F1 calendar and perhaps the potential extra revenue from sprint race concept could impact the decision making by the track owners?

 

This got me thinking a bit. There is this nice term in microeconomics, 'marginal utility', basically the extra satisfaction that you get from consuming an extra unit of a product.

And well, there is only so much Pepsi and Snickers that I can consume before it`s an overkill. And for me it`s the same with F1 aswell.

 

We`re hearing all these plans of expansion up to 25 races, extra sprints meaning that basically almost half of the weekends of the year you have F1. And now an extra session that you kind of need to tune in and see what happens. It`s bad enough having to free up time on Saturday and Sunday, but now there is also the Friday Q session, which  at best is just after work, or in worst case scenario still during working hours, so can`t really fully enjoy that.

 

Usually the weekend has built up to quali and you have some excitement, you`ve seen those 3 FP`s, but still not sure of the order and maybe some surprise springs up.

With the sprint format, well not a lot of buildup for the Friday Q, and then you have this sort of pointless Saturday FP, so the format just doesn`t seem quite right and we are not even talking about the sprint itself is a half baked mess. But never mind the quality, the point is, this seems to surpass the overkill point in terms of quantity.

 

I guess it makes sense from commercial point of view, atleast for these first sprints people are interested to see how it goes so we end up watching it anyway. And if they can sign these extra sponsors, it`s just a matter of spinning the data in the right way to show how everyone loves these sprints. So I guess as long as these sprints make commercial sense, they are here to stay.

 

As for excitement for those at trackside, I`ve been to 4 races over the years. Each time it was a Thursday afternoon to Monday morning event. Plenty of F1, F2/GP2, F3/GP3, Porsche Supercup and other action to keep you busy for all 3 days. So I`m not sure it makes much of a difference. And actually for those looking for excitement, usually more of that is in F2/F3 Saturday races and what those Saturday Sprints may ever offer anyway.

 

2021 was supposed to be another Merc bore fest and that`s why these sprints were kind of brought in to just mess around with what appeared to be yet another Merc walkover year.

 

I just hope the 2021 WC does not get decided because one of the title rivals gets crashed out in the Brazil sprint and basically has the whole weekend ruined. Actually, Silverstone and Monza battles got quite directly influenced by the sprints, so let`s see if the pattern continues.



#1025 Myrvold

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Posted 04 November 2021 - 16:41

https://www.racefans...e-sprint-races/

 

It's a total mess.  :evil:  Can't they just admit their mistakes and forget the whole thing, like they did with that qualifying fiasco in 2016?

So much effort is now wasted for solving problems, that didn't exist in the first place. Brawn should concentrate on real issues that has remained untouched for years, but no.

 

"F1’s recent fan survey indicated the idea is disastrously unpopular: 68% of fans opposed it"

 

Which reminds me of something else... I see the F1 Fan Voice have stopped with their monthly "this is what you told us last month" overviews? Or was it just the one for September, which included the sprint race. The last one they had that included the sprint race, they just included every other question in the "what you told us" except the sprint question.

Will be interesting to see if the "what you told us" is back in a few days, now that there wasn't a question about the sprint the last month.

 

Tinfoil? Maybe, but it's a massive coincidence. 



#1026 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 04 November 2021 - 16:43

But of course Brawn is going to emit terminological inexactitudes.  Because the alleged media refuse to do their ****ing jobs.  Has any one of the myriad of parasitic sycophants asked Brawn the very simple question of "name six people in favour"?

 

They're too busy writing PR about The Netflix Effect.

 

But I do like how he blames it on, and simultaneously dismisses, the uhm....highly valued F1 following on social media.


Edited by Ross Stonefeld, 04 November 2021 - 16:44.


#1027 Risil

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Posted 04 November 2021 - 16:46

https://www.racefans...e-sprint-races/

 

It's a total mess.  :evil:  Can't they just admit their mistakes and forget the whole thing, like they did with that qualifying fiasco in 2016?

 

Start and park!!



#1028 Myrvold

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Posted 04 November 2021 - 16:48

Start and park!!

 

tbh. I don't understand why e.g Haas doesn't do that. They won't score, they cannot change the car afterwards, it's under parc ferme anyway. Why wear out parts, why not just save the money and equipment.



#1029 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 04 November 2021 - 16:53

Because there might be some big wreck and they get to start 12th or something. They'll take the gamble. They won't gain much by having a 'fresh car'. 



#1030 BerniesDad

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Posted 04 November 2021 - 17:32

How about if they use the sprint race *only* for those outside the top ten?

They run Q3 as normal to decide the top ten places on the grid.

Then everyone who went out in Q1 & Q2 can compete in a sprint race. You could even still award points for it, provided they are low values (e.g. a point for the win), and the grid paces for 10+ are decided by the result.

 

I would defo watch a race among the midifelders, without being distracted by endless shots of Lewis driving around on his own.



#1031 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 04 November 2021 - 20:57

Skip qualifying entirely and just start every race reverse championship order. Any replacements/rookies get a really stressful debut. 



#1032 F1Frog

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Posted 04 November 2021 - 21:10

https://www.racefans...e-sprint-races/

 

It's a total mess.  :evil:  Can't they just admit their mistakes and forget the whole thing, like they did with that qualifying fiasco in 2016?

So much effort is now wasted for solving problems, that didn't exist in the first place. Brawn should concentrate on real issues that has remained untouched for years, but no.

 

Ten years from now we will watch a Netflix documentary that is titled: "Story of the people who killed Formula One."

Ross Brawn and Stefano Domenicali are trying to turn Formula 1 into a less good version of the BTCC purely with the incentive of money. Don't listen to the casual fans, they will switch off as soon as we get one boring season. And don't listen to the new fans, they will change their minds once they learn more about the sport. The avid fans are the ones who know what is good for the sport because they know about its history, and in time these sprints will be shown to be a disaster to most fans. I wonder if some new and casual fans will see that the avid fans don't like it and that will persuade them that the sprints are not positive for the sport. This plan of listening to new and casual fans will work in the short term, getting more money in the next few years, but will surely backfire soon after. Maybe because Liberty are planning to sell F1 as soon as that happens? Then maybe I'll have to rustle around under two-penny drop machines and see I can find enough to buy Formula 1 if I want it back to how it should be! 

 

You say in ten years, we will watch a Netflix documentary that is titled, 'story of the people who killed Formula One.' I think it is more likely that in ten years time Formula 1 will have been turned into something a bit more like WWE, and will have just started losing money when Liberty sells up.



#1033 Clatter

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Posted 04 November 2021 - 21:14

What they could/should do is ask Pirelli to bring ultra-soft tyres (projected to last around 60% of the sprint race distance, but hypothetically possible to nurse 'til the end),  provide each car with three sets but not allow teams to sample them ahead of the sprint race.

 


Compounds for the sprint race should not be the same as for the GP.

#1034 azza200

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 00:01

Compounds for the sprint race should not be the same as for the GP.

 

Agreed would make total sense and would in a way mix up the racing with everyone on different compounds (hopefully) Super Softs against Soft and Medium would throw the odd surprise. And maybe let them alter how much fuel in their tank for example Lewis may have only 60 litres because he thinks he will have an easy win while Kimi has 80 litres and can go flat out for longer


Edited by azza200, 05 November 2021 - 00:01.


#1035 Myrvold

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 04:28

Because there might be some big wreck and they get to start 12th or something. They'll take the gamble. They won't gain much by having a 'fresh car'. 

 

But they do take the start don't they? And there's not often a big wreck after L1. So do a lap and park it.



#1036 Stephane

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 10:07

"F1’s recent fan survey indicated the idea is disastrously unpopular: 68% of fans opposed it"

 

Which reminds me of something else... I see the F1 Fan Voice have stopped with their monthly "this is what you told us last month" overviews? Or was it just the one for September, which included the sprint race. The last one they had that included the sprint race, they just included every other question in the "what you told us" except the sprint question.

Will be interesting to see if the "what you told us" is back in a few days, now that there wasn't a question about the sprint the last month.

 

Tinfoil? Maybe, but it's a massive coincidence. 

Good to know F1fanvoice is still a thing. I completely forgot its existence.



#1037 absinthedude

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 10:50

I do think there is short term thinking here....grab the new fans with the over-hyped Netflix show etc. But then how to keep them, unless they go the WWE-lite route and create artificial rivalries and silly trash talking pre-race segments. I have been quite nice to Liberty until recently, but it strikes me they're now in the market to make money fast and sell. they forget that the actual purpose of a business is not to make lots of money at once...but to survive. 



#1038 Gareth

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 10:55

tbh. I don't understand why e.g Haas doesn't do that. They won't score, they cannot change the car afterwards, it's under parc ferme anyway. Why wear out parts, why not just save the money and equipment.

Could you not say the same about every race? Or maybe half of them. Do this for half, run your engine at max power for the other half!

 

I think they race in the sprint race because they are a racing team and there's a race on.



#1039 noikeee

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 12:04

I do think there is short term thinking here....grab the new fans with the over-hyped Netflix show etc. But then how to keep them, unless they go the WWE-lite route and create artificial rivalries and silly trash talking pre-race segments. I have been quite nice to Liberty until recently, but it strikes me they're now in the market to make money fast and sell. they forget that the actual purpose of a business is not to make lots of money at once...but to survive.


I do think the Netflix effect isn't sustainable forever as the novelty will wear off as the seasons go on, but I think you guys wildly overestimate this thing of "people will get bored when they find out real life isn't exactly like the show". They don't have to turn F1 into WWE that's just ridiculous. 😅 Netflix watchers will generally have the intelligence to understand a dramatised show isn't exactly the same thing as live sport.

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#1040 zanquis

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 23:39

Funny part is reading how the Sprint races should be judged not on themselves but on the effects on the weekend.. k fair enough.

The sprintraces on themselves where not bad, actually equal better than the main race. The problem is they are disastrous on the overal weekend. At least for the fans of racing.

Silverstone: Look at Lewis, he changed his playbook in Silverstone and pushed extra hard, did moves he normally wouldn’t risk in Silverstone because he knew what otherwise would happen.

Monza: The weird situation of Bottas in the lead despite his penalty, Max not pushing because he of the penalty. Lewis failed start but a redo on Sunday. Ricciardo got 2 great starts jumping to the lead. But if it wasn’t for the crashwe had no drama or heavy racing now.

#1041 absinthedude

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 11:33

The sprints were disastrous for the weekends....and were boring in themselves. 



#1042 Gareth

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 11:55

Weird, I thought both were great for the weekend. Both GB and Italy were fantastic GP weekends.

I think that was likely largely down to luck, and it hardly tells you about the format because the sample size is so small (someone up thread was like ‘literally every single sprint race ever held in the history of F1’ or something, and I was chuckling away to myself thinking ‘both, he means both’).

I suspect long term this will prove to be good for those at the track, and bad for pretty much everything else (save perhaps revenue). But it really seems odd to me to keep reading how it ruined two GP weekends that were both, IMO, fantastic.

#1043 zanquis

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 12:10

Weird, I thought both were great for the weekend. Both GB and Italy were fantastic GP weekends.

I think that was likely largely down to luck, and it hardly tells you about the format because the sample size is so small (someone up thread was like ‘literally every single sprint race ever held in the history of F1’ or something, and I was chuckling away to myself thinking ‘both, he means both’).

I suspect long term this will prove to be good for those at the track, and bad for pretty much everything else (save perhaps revenue). But it really seems odd to me to keep reading how it ruined two GP weekends that were both, IMO, fantastic.

Silverstone Hamilton got an opportunity to redo his attack, what he failed on in the sprintrace he could try again but different in mainrace. It feels like cheating for test by knowing what is going to happen. But not in a Dr Strange kewl way.

This resulting in what has been his most, if not the most controversial race result in past decade. Instead of an epic race like say USA we got a boring race where it was only a question when, not if Lewis would take the lead.

Monza, Ricciardo was the only real winner here. I might be biased because it basically stopped Verstappen from building a gap. And it might be my hate for the changed pitstop rules that where done just to hinder RedBull as the stops haven’t been made safer. But Verstappen never pushed Bottas in the sprint as he knew of the penalty to come. Hamilton tried a little but was waiting for the restart.
I liked the McLaren 1-2 but the sprintrace took away and added nothing to the race in itself.

They also need to solve the FP3 issue

And the dumb naming issue.

Maybe if they increase points and give a reverse grid to spice things up.

The only benefit is organizers getting to ask more money for tickets. Having F1 say it has been succesfull shows that money is the only motivation.

Edited by zanquis, 06 November 2021 - 12:13.


#1044 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 12:14

The sprints were disastrous for the weekends....and were boring in themselves.

They weren’t in any way ‘disastrous’ at all. That’s just BS.

You might not like them, fair enough, but they didn’t damage the ‘show’ in any way.

Both weekends as a whole, were brilliant.

Edited by ConsiderAndGo, 06 November 2021 - 12:14.


#1045 JimmyClark

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Posted 10 November 2021 - 11:36

I was having a think about sprint races. It looks like we are stuck with them for the forseeable, and I can see why promoters love them. But most fans don't like the fact they take away from qualifying, they can interfere with the main race too much, and the points on offer are paltry but increasing points too much will take away from the grand prix. F1 seems to want to find a way to make them more 'standalone', but at the same time why would the teams turn up? 

 

So my proposed solution would be... 

 

- Make Friday a Free Practice day again, with FP1 and FP2. 

- Have normal qualifying on Saturday morning instead of FP3. 

- Q1 sets the grid for the sprint race - this means everyone will have to make an effort for it, and could make for interesting tyre uses within the limits. The grid for the sprint has no sporting or technical penalties. 

- Q2 & Q3 as normal, with current tyre rules, and the grid for the grand prix is set based on Q1-Q3 as normal (with penalties applied). 

 

For the sprint: 

- No points are on offer, but Bernie's medal system is in place (Gold, Silver, Bronze, with a nice medal ceremony for the winners). Placings are decided on countback of most positions. 

- After the mini championship of sprints (it looks like we have six next year), the medals are tallied up and the top 10 drivers are given bonus points in the WDC based on the normal scoring system (25-18-15-etc.).

- Any ties are decided by fastest laps in sprints. 

 

  This means sprints can be standalone from the weekend races, but drivers do have something to fight for - namely the extra points in the WDC (and obviously contstructors will get these too). They still have championship value, but the races themselves have much reduced points value. 


Edited by JimmyClark, 10 November 2021 - 11:37.


#1046 Tony006

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Posted 17 November 2021 - 21:07

The sprint races/qualifying where a good experiment but there is room for improvement.

 

Friday

Free Practice 1

Sprint Race

 

Saturday

Free Practice 2

Qualifying

 

Sunday

Grand Prix

 

Qualifying on Friday and Sprint race on Saturday felt wrong, Qualifying should always be to set grid for Grand Prix, sprint races should be a standalone event with more points awarded but they only count towards constructors championship so not to have any impact on Drivers Championship.

 

Having the Sprint race on Friday afternoon evening will make for a better start to the weekend as Friday practice 2 was mainly race simulations and so an actual race will be an improvement.

 

There are six sprint races destined for 2022 so there should be some experimentation on decided starting order. With 3 options can try them at 2 sprint races each and decide which work best to continue or try some other variations for 2023.

 

Option 1 - Drivers Championship order

Option 2 - Finishing order from previous race

Option 3 - Constructors Championship order

 

Reverse grid races proberly won't work due to short format, if only constructor points awarded the top 8 positions could be reversed like in F2 or the top 4 moved back 2 or 3 rows to start mid grid as an alternative.

 

One car starting out of position like Hamilton in Brazil is good viewing if they make up alot of those positions but not so good if like Alonso in Abu Dhabi 2010 when stuck behind Petrov. At least a bad Sprint race will not have any lasting effects on the rest of weekend or Drivers Championship only Constructors Championship could be impacted. Reverse grids races have the potential to be spectacular but could also be mayham with desperate overtake attempts resulting in crashes and retirements or very little overtaking possible depending on circuit.

 

Points should be awarded for everyone that finishes the sprint race, 20,19,18...1 so every positioned gained is worthwhile or 25,20,18,16,15...1 if want to offer premium to top 2 positions. If number of competing changes then points structure would need to be changed as well. Keeping points for top 10 finisher may result in slower teams not trying to race and treating it as a practice session.