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Heineken® London E-PRIX | Formula E Double Header!


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Poll: Heineken® London E-PRIX | Formula E Double Header! (23 member(s) have cast votes)

What are you looking forward the most in London?

  1. Racing Indoor/Outdoor, with possible rain & a crazy track? Bring it on! (11 votes [47.83%])

    Percentage of vote: 47.83%

  2. Total Track Blockage in the Double Hairpin (4 votes [17.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.39%

  3. Championship battle at its peak! (2 votes [8.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.70%

  4. Sam Bird mantaining or extending the championship lead! (4 votes [17.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.39%

  5. Nick Cassidy continuing to deliver! (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. I just hope it doesn't end behind a Safety Car! (2 votes [8.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.70%

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#651 juicy sushi

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Posted 26 July 2021 - 19:03

It was a loophole, a stupid one, but a legitimate one.  However, as soon as the penalties came down for essentially being too smart for their own good (great idea, failed execution), they needed to be followed.  Di Grassi wound up looking like Scott Goodyear at Indy.

 

The standard of driving in London was very poor from very experienced drivers who should've known better.  Between desperation and a bad layout too many people were playing bumper cars.  I agree with the complaint that Formula E need to stop having so many random post-race penalties for technical infringements the fans cannot understand.  That costs legitimacy and needs to stop.  But the driving standards penalties issued because some guys were just blatantly torpedoing their rivals were entirely correct.  Once you allow things to go down the BTCC road, it is very hard to recover.  That's a risk they need to avoid.  

 

Audi aren't really any more jerks than anyone else, but ignoring the black flag just looked bad for them.  

 

All of that said, I can think of some pretty poor driving at times in IndyCar this year, from equally experienced, big name drivers, and F1 continually sets low goals in driving standards and fails to achieve them.  So, I don't think there's any need to single Formula E out as egregious in this respect.  You give a bunch of egomaniacs carbon fibre law darts to play with, and they will try to put each others' eyes out.  That's partly why we all tune in.



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#652 pdac

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Posted 26 July 2021 - 19:49

What are people actually upset with Audi for?

For me I think they should be punished for disobeying the drive through and Black flag orders. And should probably get a race ban for Di Grassi’s car in my book.

If Di Grassi had actually stopped in his box would people still be mad at Audi?

 

Of course not. It would have been a clever spot of a bad rule or, rather, the lack of a good one. However, he did not and the Stewards issued a penalty.

 

What people are upset about is that, instead of shrugging their shoulders and serving the penalty, both the team and their driver decided to effectively tell the whole organisational operation to go f*** themselves. Even if they were in the right, it's unacceptable. But the fact that they were not ... well, how else do you expect people to feel about them?



#653 uzsjgb

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Posted 26 July 2021 - 22:26

Of course not. It would have been a clever spot of a bad rule or, rather, the lack of a good one. However, he did not and the Stewards issued a penalty.

 

What people are upset about is that, instead of shrugging their shoulders and serving the penalty, both the team and their driver decided to effectively tell the whole organisational operation to go f*** themselves. Even if they were in the right, it's unacceptable. But the fact that they were not ... well, how else do you expect people to feel about them?

 

To me it seems that people are more angry at Audi for playing by the rules (making the fully legal pitstop) than for breaking them by not calling Di Grassi in for the drive-through penalty.

 

These sort of things happen a lot in this forum. My impression is that these people are not interested in rules, so explaining the rules and technicalities gets you nowhere. For some reason they get angry at the team or the driver at the center of the current affair and that is why they latch on to that matter. Regularly you will hear talk about the spirit of the rules, or loopholes or grey area of the rules - all mental constructions to punish the team or driver, not because they broke the rules, but because they are the bad guys.

 

It seems that when a team or driver is made out to be the bad guy, then these people need to see a punishment as a form of catharsis. One contributor said it quite clearly in this thread, he wanted to see somebody at Audi, be it from the team or driver, punished for something. It's not about rules and regulations and just punishments - it's about tarring and feathering the bad guys or anybody associated with them. Whoever you can get your hands on.

 

It's probably just human nature.



#654 pdac

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Posted 26 July 2021 - 22:57

To me it seems that people are more angry at Audi for playing by the rules (making the fully legal pitstop) than for breaking them by not calling Di Grassi in for the drive-through penalty.

 

These sort of things happen a lot in this forum. My impression is that these people are not interested in rules, so explaining the rules and technicalities gets you nowhere. For some reason they get angry at the team or the driver at the center of the current affair and that is why they latch on to that matter. Regularly you will hear talk about the spirit of the rules, or loopholes or grey area of the rules - all mental constructions to punish the team or driver, not because they broke the rules, but because they are the bad guys.

 

It seems that when a team or driver is made out to be the bad guy, then these people need to see a punishment as a form of catharsis. One contributor said it quite clearly in this thread, he wanted to see somebody at Audi, be it from the team or driver, punished for something. It's not about rules and regulations and just punishments - it's about tarring and feathering the bad guys or anybody associated with them. Whoever you can get your hands on.

 

It's probably just human nature.

 

You could be right. People often are at first taken aback with the thought "I never thought you could do that".Then it's pretty soon followed by "how dare they do that" with rage as they realise that someone has outsmarted them.



#655 Bleu

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 06:28

Considering how much he won time, if di Grassi had been 2nd while doing that, he would have likely come ahead of safety car. Could he have gained a lap or would safety car let all other drivers by to make him be 1st on the queue?



#656 Muppetmad

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 06:40

Considering how much he won time, if di Grassi had been 2nd while doing that, he would have likely come ahead of safety car. Could he have gained a lap or would safety car let all other drivers by to make him be 1st on the queue?

It's an excellent question, and something I'd not considered. I imagine, for lack of a better solution, the safety car would have let everybody else go by. What a chaotic state of affairs that would have been though!



#657 Ultraviolet

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 06:46

To me it seems that people are more angry at Audi for playing by the rules (making the fully legal pitstop) than for breaking them by not calling Di Grassi in for the drive-through penalty.

 

These sort of things happen a lot in this forum. My impression is that these people are not interested in rules, so explaining the rules and technicalities gets you nowhere. For some reason they get angry at the team or the driver at the center of the current affair and that is why they latch on to that matter. Regularly you will hear talk about the spirit of the rules, or loopholes or grey area of the rules - all mental constructions to punish the team or driver, not because they broke the rules, but because they are the bad guys.

 

It seems that when a team or driver is made out to be the bad guy, then these people need to see a punishment as a form of catharsis. One contributor said it quite clearly in this thread, he wanted to see somebody at Audi, be it from the team or driver, punished for something. It's not about rules and regulations and just punishments - it's about tarring and feathering the bad guys or anybody associated with them. Whoever you can get your hands on.

 

It's probably just human nature.

Nope.

 

From last year: “In this situation I think it is right to change it under safety because if everyone comes in to the pit now under FCY ultimately there is going to be quite a lot of people effectively doing a stop and go at the same time,” McNish told The Race.

“So it will all be a bit busy and potentially risky because we are under an FCY for a safety reason anyway, so I agree with the FIA but I also think the whole regulation needs to be looked at for the future.”

 

McNish did something that he knew full well was "potentially risky because we are under [a safey car] for a safety reason anyway". That is my objection to what he did, regardless of whether FE had forgotten to install a rule making it illegal.

 

The fact that they then ignored the penalty, and worst of all ignored the black flag, just compounds a bad situation.



#658 Victor_RO

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 06:50

Considering how much he won time, if di Grassi had been 2nd while doing that, he would have likely come ahead of safety car. Could he have gained a lap or would safety car let all other drivers by to make him be 1st on the queue?

 

From one of the onboard replays shown at the time, he *did* come out marginally ahead of the SC (or at least side-by-side with it) and slowed down to blend back in.