5187 replies to this topic

[JvsKVB77]

Hi guys, after seeing the picture of Leclerc's Ferrari crossing the line in Monza with Colapinto in the same shot, something occurred to me that I have not been able to answer.

 

You see, Leclerc won the race, and Colapinto finished a couple of seconds behind Ricciardo who had a penalty, so the positions were switched.

 

But what would have happened if Leclerc had lapped Colapinto? That would have been the end of the race for COL while RIC still had a lap to go, so even if the difference crossing the line to the last lap was smaller than the penalty, would he (RIC) have retained his position?

Yes, he would retain position. 

[Dara]

Just saw one of those pictures from a trolley filled with spare front wings for the grand prix.

Got me thing,what happens with all those spare parts when the season is over? Are those destroyed?

[SpeedRacer`]

I am always surprised at how much of a deal is made of charging the battery at most circuits. I believe the maximum is 33 seconds per lap, yet it seems over 10 years after these regs came in, people are still struggling to charge the batteries to use this every lap?

 

I get on shorter circuits it would be harder, or with fewer braking zones. But they should be the exception not the rule, surely?

[PayasYouRace]

Isn’t there also a limit to the power applied to battery charging? So 33 seconds times the maximum power allowed gives a limit to the amount of charge you can build in that time.

[le chat noir]

Yes, he would retain position.

There was a race I think in Imola that MSC was winning at a canter and on the last lap he slowed to allow RSC to unlap himself to provide a final opportunity to make up a position. Brotherly love between teams.

Maybe it wasn’t Imola because I have another Imola memory where MSC totally screwed over RSC in trying to pass him before he pitted such that it allowed Rubens to catch and pass RSC.

[Grippy]

There was a race I think in Imola that MSC was winning at a canter and on the last lap he slowed to allow RSC to unlap himself to provide a final opportunity to make up a position. Brotherly love between teams.

Maybe it wasn’t Imola because I have another Imola memory where MSC totally screwed over RSC in trying to pass him before he pitted such that it allowed Rubens to catch and pass RSC.

 

there was this incident as well, described in 'Working the wheel' by Martin Brundle;
'94 Hungaroring; MSC leading came up to lap Brundle who let him by so easily that MSC thought he might have a problem (he did) and wanted to do a lap less, so got on the radio to check where his team-mate (Jos V) was; on hearing Jos was in 4th with Brundle 3rd he slowed so Brundle had to unlap himself or be caught, MSC then let Jos by who got 3rd when Brundle broke down on the last lap.

[Bleu]

There was a race I think in Imola that MSC was winning at a canter and on the last lap he slowed to allow RSC to unlap himself to provide a final opportunity to make up a position. Brotherly love between teams.

Maybe it wasn’t Imola because I have another Imola memory where MSC totally screwed over RSC in trying to pass him before he pitted such that it allowed Rubens to catch and pass RSC.

 

That was Magny-Cours 1997. Alesi and Coulthard then collided on the final lap, the latter retiring and Ralf got the last point.

[Hati]

I assume there is a paragraph in the F1 rulebook that prevents Newey to become independent contractor that designs generic F1 car and sells the blueprints to every team that wants them?

[PayasYouRace]

I assume there is a paragraph in the F1 rulebook that prevents Newey to become independent contractor that designs generic F1 car and sells the blueprints to every team that wants them?

That will be the part where teams must use unique IP in their car designs, apart from the list of parts allowed to be shared. So Adrian could design a car for one team, and no others could buy it. Much like how Dallara can only work with Haas in their car design.

[Gravelngrass]

Ok this is not really a stupid question, but rather a question regarding a stupid rule. Can someone remind me why cars can’t be changed between qualifying and the race? It’s stupid on so many levels (rain setup changes, race and qualifying setups are fundamentally different for starters) I was wondering why it had come about…

[IrvTheSwerve]

Ok this is not really a stupid question, but rather a question regarding a stupid rule. Can someone remind me why cars can’t be changed between qualifying and the race? It’s stupid on so many levels (rain setup changes, race and qualifying setups are fundamentally different for starters) I was wondering why it had come about…

 

I can't remember exactly but I would assume it was something to do with people running qualifying cars and then totally changing the car/engine for the race.

[Ivanhoe]

Yeah, it was a cost-saving measure, to prevent that the big teams would develop bespoke qualifying cars. In these times of the budget cap, you can question if it is of great use any longer.

[PayasYouRace]

It was already becoming slightly obsolete when the penalties for engine changes were introduced, and nowadays it’s probably not much use at all.

[Risil]

I imagine the teams probably like it as well because it means no more late nights and frenzied working up until the 10 minute warning.

[Myrvold]

I imagine the teams probably like it as well because it means no more late nights and frenzied working up until the 10 minute warning.

 

But the curfews are already limiting that.

 

With penalties for changing stuff, curfews and budget cap, there is a couple of the parc ferme rules that feels like they are just sticking around because they already are in the rulebook

[Gravelngrass]

I mean, I get it when you had qualifying cars and engines, but, my god, being unable to change settings between qualy and race goes against every motor racing premise. Besides, how cool were racing engines, cars and tyres wink 😉 (I know, I know)…

[SiS]

I've always hated parc ferme but could see the sense pre curfew and budget cap.

It really now only serves to remove risk for the teams, reduce jeopardy and deprive us of seeing what the mechanics and engineers can really do when the chips are down.

[Hati]

That will be the part where teams must use unique IP in their car designs, apart from the list of parts allowed to be shared. 

 

So technically an expensive lawyer could argue that when Newey changes team he uses IP learned on the old team so the new car isn't original. That would be very slippery slope though, and would surely bite back in the long run.

[Nathan]

An expensive IP lawyer would tell you that isn't how it works.

[PayasYouRace]

So technically an expensive lawyer could argue that when Newey changes team he uses IP learned on the old team so the new car isn't original. That would be very slippery slope though, and would surely bite back in the long run.

This is why engineers who swap teams get gardening leave.

 

Plus, what Nathan said.

[Risil]

Bernie-era F1 question: in the 80s and early 90s teams like Haas, Larrousse and Scuderia Italia used to race, fairly successfully, with chassis built by other companies. The teams didn't appear in the constructors' championship, but the championship points they scored accrued to builders Lola and Dallara instead. Who got the prize money? Was prize money even linked to constructors' championship points in those days?

[PayasYouRace]

I actually thought of that as this discussion came up. I would imagine that while the prize money was paid directly to the constructor, each team would have had some sort of contractural arrangement for dividing the money.

On the other hand, money might have been paid to the entrant, and the reverse procedure to pay for and reward the constructor’s work.

I’d be interested to know.

[Risil]

I think it's a Concorde Agreement question really!

[PayasYouRace]

Giving it further thought, I think the entrant was the party that signed the Concorde Agreement, and the constructor was essentially a subcontractor to them. As per the rules, the constructor’s name appeared for the constructors’ championship, but the team was the entrant and would be the recipient of the reward.

Can anyone confirm?

[Nathan]

I'm pretty certain prize money was paid to the entrants.

[Broekschaap]

So technically an expensive lawyer could argue that when Newey changes team he uses IP learned on the old team so the new car isn't original. That would be very slippery slope though, and would surely bite back in the long run.

I don't think a lawyer would be helpfull but there actually is an article(17.2.4)  in the technical regulations that tries to prevent IP flowing freely this way:

No Competitor may use movement of personnel (whether employee, consultant, contractor,
secondee or any other type of permanent or temporary personnel) with another Competitor,
either directly or via an external entity, for the purpose of circumventing the requirements of
this Article 17.

[Broekschaap]

Giving it further thought, I think the entrant was the party that signed the Concorde Agreement, and the constructor was essentially a subcontractor to them. As per the rules, the constructor’s name appeared for the constructors’ championship, but the team was the entrant and would be the recipient of the reward.

Can anyone confirm?

In the 1997 concorde agreement the entrant is the constructor, i don't think we have a concorde agreement of earlier years (or later) available to the public:

Only a constructor (as defined in Schedule 3 hereto) may enter a car in the
FIA F1 Championship (unless Clause 10.4 applies) and each entrant must enter two
cars or such higher number as may be fixed from time to time by the FIA in
accordance with the terms of this Agreement.

 

and this is in 10.4

The parties agree to use their best endeavours to ensure that at least sixteen
cars compete in the FIA F1 Championship, and if less than sixteen cars have
entered or are available to compete it is agreed that the FIA can, notwithstanding
any other provision in this Agreement, make such changes as are necessary to the
FIA Formula One Sporting and Technical Regulations to enable enough F3000 cars
(or cars eligible for the principal qualifying championship for drivers superlicences
if different) to compete in the relevant F1 FIA Championship to ensure that at least
sixteen cars take part in each Event

Edited by Broekschaap, 17 September 2024 - 15:25.

[Hati]

Are there F1 tracks where first split time gives meaningful information on how the qualifying lap is going? First split only tells how fast your car is on straight and second split is first indicator that tells if you have chance for pole.

[Hrco42]

Why when there is a crash in MotoGP or WBSK they bring the blocks with DOCTOR written on them to the drivers on the ground?

[Brawn BGP 001]

Are there F1 tracks where first split time gives meaningful information on how the qualifying lap is going? First split only tells how fast your car is on straight and second split is first indicator that tells if you have chance for pole.

Silverstone I think you got the complex at the start of the lap.

 

Also COTA

Edited by Brawn BGP 001, 04 November 2024 - 09:12.

[Winterapfel]

I was watching this video, onboard from Russell

https://x.com/sim374...NgcrK8n9lw&s=19

It made my wondering: what if he had entered the pits and subsequently, when he was in the pits the race is red flagged.

Has this eve happened. Red flag with a car in the pits? How would this car join in the correct place.

I can't imagine the car is allowed to leave the pits to join in the correct place.

However, in case the car is not going out, while the other cars do make their inlap, the car in the pits is a lap down?

So how does it work?

[Sterzo]

A car in the pits keeps whatever position it had at the moment the race was red flagged. The regulations say:

 

"...any cars in the pit lane or pit entry at the time the sprint session or the race was
suspended will be arranged in the order they occupied before the sprint session or the race was
suspended."

 

That's from Article 57.3 on page 64 of the FIA sporting regs. This link takes you to the regs but not to the page.

 

https://www.fia.com/..._2023-09-26.pdf

[Anja]

I doubt I'm the first one to ask, but: is there a reason why are the top class prototypes used almost exclusively (that handful of IMSA races being the only exception) for endurance racing and not shorter races as well? It seems like a bit of a waste not to see those cars in action more often - the WEC calendar doesn't have many rounds, why not add some (easier to organize) short races to the mix and perhaps go back to the old WSC name to fit the semantics - does the only World Championship for prototypes and GTs have to be a strictly endurance one? Plus short races would probably be an easier gateway for the new fans into the sportscar world. 

Edited by Anja, 21 November 2024 - 15:58.

[7MGTEsup]

I doubt I'm the first one to ask, but: is there a reason why are the top class prototypes used almost exclusively (that handful of IMSA races being the only exception) for endurance racing and not shorter races as well? It seems like a bit of a waste not to see those cars in action more often - the WEC calendar doesn't have many rounds, why not add some (easier to organize) short races to the mix and perhaps go back to the old WSC name to fit the semantics - does the only World Championship for prototypes and GTs have to be a strictly endurance one? Plus short races would probably be an easier gateway for the new fans into the sportscar world. 

 

Although they are endurance races, they're anything but these days as the cars are pretty close most of the time. It's not like the old days where cars were seperated by laps.

[Gravelngrass]

During safety cars, do the cars that unlap themselves go all the way around the track and rejoin the line at the back before the SC goes back in (in other words, does the SC wait for them to arrive at the back of the line)? Or does the SC go back in before they complete a whole lap and get behind the queue?

[NickeyF1]

During safety cars, do the cars that unlap themselves go all the way around the track and rejoin the line at the back before the SC goes back in (in other words, does the SC wait for them to arrive at the back of the line)? Or does the SC go back in before they complete a whole lap and get behind the queue?

 

The safety car doesn’t wait for the backmarkers to catch up. It just goes back in when the race control decides, regardless of whether the lapped cars have rejoined the pack. Bortoleto had this issue in Australia, where the SC went back in before he could catch up.

 

He talks about it after the race around 6:05 here

Edited by NickeyF1, 18 March 2025 - 13:58.

[balmybaldwin]

The safety car doesn’t wait for the backmarkers to catch up. It just goes back in when the race control decides, regardless of whether the lapped cars have rejoined the pack. Bortoleto had this issue in Australia, where the SC went back in before he could catch up.

 

He talks about it after the race around 6:05 here

I think they need to tweak the safety car rules....  from the moment the SC releases lapped cars, until the field passes the pitlane on the green flag lap the pit lane light should be red to prevent the farce we saw on sunday with released cars pitting and having the opportunity to interfere with the leaders

Edited by balmybaldwin, 18 March 2025 - 23:26.

[beachdrifter]

So I missed the last 3 years of F1. There was a lot of excitement about these "new" cars (which for most of you are now old) since they were designed to get rid of the problem of the dirty air, supposedly allowing the cars to follow each other closely.

 

Watching these races now, it seems like that has been an utter failure? What happened?