132 replies to this topic

[Spillage]

Don't really know how I feel about this. Good to see Alboreto get some commemoration but that's an iconic corner and it's sad to see the Parabolica name go.

[noriaki]

With respect to the memory of Michele Alboreto, in the history of Italian racing drivers, he's some way behind Nazzaro, Fagioli, Varzi, Borzacchini, Bordino, Farina, and, taking sportscars and the times into account, Chinetti.

 

The Italians can be regionalistic though. Alboreto was from Monza and Ascari, who already has his corner, from Milan too. Whereas none of those you listed were even from Lombardy (apart from Chinetti - and at a quick glance, he never even competed in any big race at Monza). 

 

Similarly Emilio Materassi, who was from a village nearby Mugello, has his own corner named on the modern track, and the entire Misano track got renamed after Simoncelli who grew up nearby.

[ensign14]

Surprised you didn't mention Nuvolari...

He already has a circuit named after him.  I think that is the sort of level you're looking at to commemorate Il Mantovano Volante.

[Risil]

The Italians can be regionalistic though. Alboreto was from Monza and Ascari, who already has his corner, from Milan too. Whereas none of those you listed were even from Lombardy (apart from Chinetti - and at a quick glance, he never even competed in any big race at Monza). 

 

Similarly Emilio Materassi, who was from a village nearby Mugello, has his own corner named on the modern track, and the entire Misano track got renamed after Simoncelli who grew up nearby.

 

It was interesting to note while wandering through Milan's monumental cemetery (as a tourist, not visiting relatives) how many of the surnames on the tombs are familiar from Grand Prix history.

[LucaP]

You found many Brambillas there I guess!
It's really a stereotypical surname from that area.

Edited by LucaP, 02 September 2021 - 15:59.

[A.Fant]

Not sure that renaming Parabolica is a great idea, likely everyone will still refer to it as "Parabolica"...but as something of a fan of Michele I'm happy to see him so honoured. 

 

Lots of parts of race tracks which are now iconic are really mundane descriptors....the Hangar straight at Sliverstone named after an aircraft hangar which was beside it for many years. Maison Blanche at Le Mans. Even La Source and Eau Rouge. 

 

Just like "No Name" at Spa has been officially named Ickx since 2018, but the commentators don't care the slightest.

[PayasYouRace]

Just like "No Name" at Spa has been officially named Ickx since 2018, but the commentators don't care the slightest.

 

And it was also named Copenhagen in 1979, but again nobody cares.

[KWSN - DSM]

And it was also named Copenhagen in 1979, but again nobody cares.

 

I am intrigued, why Copenhagen?

[PayasYouRace]

Can't answer why beyond it fitting in with the other European capital city names that all the "new" corners got when the "new" circuit was built.

 

Really? Maybe that right-hander was part of the Kemmel Curves that were straightened in 1979? Kemmel is usually the name of the straight though, isn't it?

To make things even more confusing, here's the circuit map from Motor Sport Magazine's race report from the 1979 Spa 24 hours: https://www.motorspo...a-francorchamps

[Risil]

That map has strong "Jenks drew this on a napkin" vibes

[KWSN - DSM]

Speaking of weird name changes... A glimpse of what to come?

 

https://sports.yahoo...-215904436.html

 

[jpm2019]

Parabolica is a classic. Just as Eau Rouge, Peraltada, Tarzanbocht, Senna S, Magots and Beckets, and 130r. You just don't change those. 

[MaxCrazyEddieCayer]

How about Parabolica Alboreto ?

Can we just call it like that ?

Call it a day ?

50/50 ?

Kiff Kiff ?

Even?

Quatre trente sous pour une piastre? 

[jpm2019]

How about Parabolica Alboreto ?

Can we just call it like that ?

Call it a day ?

50/50 ?

Kiff Kiff ?

Even?

Quatre trente sous pour une piastre? 

Dont know a lot about alboreto and his heritage but seems like a logical and great solution! Deal!

[BRG]

OK, so Paraboreto Alborilica it is!

[midgrid]

[midgrid]

Oh no!

[William Hunt]

Michele Alboreto 'only' won 5 F1 Grand Prix but.... what's easy to forget is that he came close to winning a world title in 1985.

After 9 (Nurbürgring was round 9) of the 16 races he was on top of the championship tables and after 10 races (so after Austria) he and Prost both had 50 pts. Elio de Angelis (Lotus) was quite far behind with 28 pts and then came Johansson (Ferrari) on 19ts and Keke Rosberg (Williams) 18 pts.

 

At that point Alboreto had an amazing constant run (in particular since reliability was not good in those days) of 2 wins, 4 second places and 2 thirds + 2 DNF's on a total of 10 races. The next race in Zandvoort he was 4th but that turned out to be his last points finish. He suffered from terrible reliability in the final 5 races: finishing none of them. He still ended vice-world champion on 53 pts compared to Prost on 73 pts but it's easy to forget that from race one until quite late in the season he looked like he could win the world title, he was leading the championship in August '85.

Prost scored just 3 retirements in '85 and Alboreto suffered 7 retirements that were usually caused by the Ferrari turbo engine. If his car had been more reliable or at least as reliable ast the Mclaren he could have easily have won the title that year. Rosberg & Senna who were 3rd & 4th in the championship also had 7 DNF's. That year it was reliability that made Prost champion, he certainly wasn't the quickest driver at all in '85 (that was Senna in the Lotus who scored 7 poles compared to just 2 for Prost).

 

So in other words: if Michele had won that title in '85, and halfway the season he looked like the top favourite to win it, then I doubt many people would have any objection to a corner at Monza named after him. He never seemed to be able to repeat his 1985 form though and when Gerhard Berger entered Ferrari in '87 he was clearly taking over as the lead driver: he was quicker but in '85 Alboreto was fabulous.

Edited by William Hunt, 04 September 2021 - 20:13.

[midgrid]

Much of Ferrari's problems in late 1985 were due to an ill-conceived switch of turbo supplier mid-season, from KKK to Garrett, possibly because KKK is a German company and Enzo was worried about favouritism towards (McLaren-TAG) Porsche. Without this, Alboreto would surely have given Prost a closer run to the title.

[Victor]

As much as I was cheering for Alboreto back in 85 & 85, I feel this makes no sense at all. The 'Parabolica' is the 'Parabolica' and no touching tribute to a nice driver will change that.

Edited by Victor, 04 September 2021 - 10:28.

[Rediscoveryx]

1985 is such an underrated season, almost certainly due to Prost wrapping up the title with two rounds to spare. The competitiveness was just crazy, you never knew beforehand who would have the upper hand. Would it be McLaren, Lotus, Ferrari or Williams? Even Brabham were in the mix at a couple of events. Also, the strategic approach was very different between teams, as primarily Lotus and Williams were ”fast but unreliable” while McLaren played it slow and steady. Prost often started races on harder tyres and elected to non-stop, which of course gave the impression that he was ”slow” compared to Rosberg and Senna who flew away from the start and then blew their engines on lap 10 (mild exaggeration).

I don’t really think it’s fair to say that Alboreto ”almost won” the title. Yes, he retired from the final races, but he was never really in the hunt in those races. At Monza he retired from fifth (Prost won). At Spa he retired from eighth (although he had mechanical issues from the start so that’s perhaps not representative - he had qualified fourth). At Brands Hatch he was running eighth when his turbo problems hit, exact same thing at Kyalami (eight/turbo), the he retired from third at Adelaide in the finale.

I think it’s fair to say that Ferrari regressed during the year. There were a few starts from the eighth row in the second half of the year for him, and he was never in contention for a win after Nürburgring. For what it’s worth, he was rated fifth in the Autocourse top ten of 1985, behind Prost, Senna, Rosberg and Piquet.

Now, this is not meant to bash Alboreto in any way - he had a really strong season overall, and a few really strong highs (Canada and Nürburgring come to mind, but he was also strong in the rain at Estoril and at Monaco).

Edited by Rediscoveryx, 04 September 2021 - 12:37.

[midgrid]

You could even say that Lotus went for both approaches within the same team! Senna was "fast but unreliable" but De Angelis had a good finishing record without reaching the same peaks of performance.

[Ali_G]

Which is a shame because it’s such a rubbish name. It’s literally just a description of the mathematical function that defines the shape. It’s a parabolic curve, the Parabolic Curve. But I guess anything can sound exotic and emotive in Italian.

Not as bad as “130R” though, and miles better than just numbering the corners.

It’s actually not a parabolic curve. The exit is one half of a parabola but the other half isn’t.

[PayasYouRace]

It’s actually not a parabolic curve. The exit is one half of a parabola but the other half isn’t.

 

 

There's a post further on in the thread which overlays a parabola on the part of the curve that is parabolic. This is the height of pendantic bullshit.

[Ali_G]

Calm down. My post was intentionally pendantic.

[PayasYouRace]

Calm down. My post was intentionally pendantic.

Yeah that’s why I thought it merited not much more than an eye roll.

[BRG]

So in other words: if Michele had won that title in '85, and halfway the season he looked like the top favourite to win it, then I doubt many people would have any objection to a corner at Monza named after him. 

I don't think many people have any objection at all to naming a corner after him.  Just not the Parabolica.

[William Hunt]

1985 is such an underrated season....

 

Agreed but not just 1985. Every season in the '70s and first half of the '80s (until let's say '87) had this fascinating strategies, unpredictibility and lots of competitive teams and drivers. That's what I miss about modern F1. And I fear those days are never going to come back.

[Zmeej]

My avatar features Mario in a Lotus on the Parabolica.

 

Don’t really have an issue with it being renamed after the late Signor Alboreto per se, so other people’s avatars can feature phota of recent drivers on the thing so named, but why not rename it after Ascari, Nuvolari, Farina, or even Andretti…? You know, guys who actually won a championship or two.

Edited by Zmeej, 05 September 2021 - 02:49.

[PayasYouRace]

My avatar features Mario in a Lotus on the Parabolica.

Don’t really have an issue with it being renamed after the late Signor Alboreto per se, so other people’s avatars can feature phota of recent drivers on the thing so named, but why not rename it after Ascari, Nuvolari, Farina, or even Andretti…? You know, guys who actually won a championship or two.

Well there’s a pretty good reason for them not naming it after Ascari.

[Blackjack1967]

1985 is such an underrated season, almost certainly due to Prost wrapping up the title with two rounds to spare. The competitiveness was just crazy, you never knew beforehand who would have the upper hand. Would it be McLaren, Lotus, Ferrari or Williams? Even Brabham were in the mix at a couple of events. Also, the strategic approach was very different between teams, as primarily Lotus and Williams were ”fast but unreliable” while McLaren played it slow and steady. Prost often started races on harder tyres and elected to non-stop, which of course gave the impression that he was ”slow” compared to Rosberg and Senna who flew away from the start and then blew their engines on lap 10 (mild exaggeration).

I don’t really think it’s fair to say that Alboreto ”almost won” the title. Yes, he retired from the final races, but he was never really in the hunt in those races. At Monza he retired from fifth (Prost won). At Spa he retired from eighth (although he had mechanical issues from the start so that’s perhaps not representative - he had qualified fourth). At Brands Hatch he was running eighth when his turbo problems hit, exact same thing at Kyalami (eight/turbo), the he retired from third at Adelaide in the finale.

I think it’s fair to say that Ferrari regressed during the year. There were a few starts from the eighth row in the second half of the year for him, and he was never in contention for a win after Nürburgring. For what it’s worth, he was rated fifth in the Autocourse top ten of 1985, behind Prost, Senna, Rosberg and Piquet.

Now, this is not meant to bash Alboreto in any way - he had a really strong season overall, and a few really strong highs (Canada and Nürburgring come to mind, but he was also strong in the rain at Estoril and at Monaco).

I´ve have revisited some 85´races recently. What a sensation of power and torque. In Monaco, Michele was unbeliable. He lost that one because the famous Piquet-Patrese crush at the end of start/finish line. His line, almost touching the armco in Massenet, lap after lap was awesome. Brands, the tittle decider, was a lesson that Keke gave to Ayrton after their incident. There were champagne for four at the podium: Nigel, Ayrton, Keke and Alain. And as you said don´t forget those L4 BMWs pushing the Brabhams and Arrows.Those were the days...

 

 

Sorry about the disgression.

Naming some place honouring Michele: Ok, but Parabolica will be always Parabolica

[BRG]

In Monaco, Michele was unbeliable. 

Sorry but unbeliable??  Is that unreliable or unbelievable? 

[kyle936]

I wonder what the “proper” name will be be anyway? Curva Alboreto?

They could always do like Estoril which renamed its Parabolica to Parabolica Ayrton Senna.

That's what makes sense to me - Parabolica Michele Alboreto, but if that's too much of a mouthful for commentators (which it is) then Curva Alboreto, or even just Alboreto for short, which is probably what they'll call it anyway.

 

It's a shame, though, when they rename a corner. Renaming some of the other iconic corners - use your imagination - doesn't bear thinking about in a lot of cases. God forbid that they name them after sponsors (I think some have been although I can't think of examples but Knockhill springs to mind - some of its corners have been renamed, can't remember who or what after) - that would be beyond the pale.

 

Only loosely related, but there's a Rue Bob Wollek in Le Mans. It's within the old Le Mans circuit, when it ran further into the town, before the circuit was shortened in 1932 with the section from the Dunlop Curve to Tertre Rouge. I found it recently when I was looking on the map for the old circuit and thought it was a nice gesture, especially since 'Brilliant Bob', as he was known, never won Le Mans but tried for years and came close a few times.