16 replies to this topic

[Bob Riebe]

https://www.macsmoto...-hp/#more-84463

 

I put this here to replace the one that the powers that be snuffed.

 

 

The did not graph the pull till 5,800 rpm but as it was over 600 hp then.

I wish the would have said what low rpm hp was as I would think down around 3-4 thousand it would be at least 300 hp.

[Magoo]

Used parts can be had fairly cheap for these engines because the pro NASCAR teams time them out quickly, when they still have plenty of use left in them for sportsmen. 

 

When the new NASCAR engine package comes in a year or two (allegedly) the parts will be even cheaper. Pennies on the dollar.  

[Bob Riebe]

I would love put one of those in a 2005 Mustang or later, destroke it to 302 and call it a Super Boss 302.

Of course you could put it into a Pinto and go looking for V-8 Vegas.

[Magoo]

Fun fact: When the Toyota NASCAR Cup engine was designed, they used a Chevrolet bell housing bolt pattern. Lee White couldn't see the value in making everyone tool up new parts.  

[Bob Riebe]

Toyota is racing in the Trans-Am equivalent in one of the South American countries; I am surprised they have not tried it up here.

[Magoo]

Toyota is racing in the Trans-Am equivalent in one of the South American countries; I am surprised they have not tried it up here.

 

No audience. 

[Magoo]

Funny story about how the Toyota NASCAR Cup engine was developed.... When NASCAR invited Toyota into the series, the carmaker did not have a suitable pushrod V8 so NASCAR said fine, invent one. Toyota said, okay give us the rules. 

 

NASCAR said, "There are no rules. The engines were originally developed from production powerplants and evolved to what they are today. Just don't make your engine any better than the other in any particular area or dimension." These included bore centers, cam height and diameter, bore/stroke ratio, rod/stroke ratio, carb flange height, etc etc. 

 

So Toyota said, "Fine, give us a list of the dimensions." 

 

NASCAR said, "We don't have one. Never compiled one. This thing just evolved into what it is." 

 

So Toyota went out and bought examples of the current Ford, Chevrolet, and Dodge NASCAR engines, tore them down and measured them, came up with a list of critical dimensions, and built their engine within the specs. 

 

Soon, some Ford, Chevy, and Dodge teams were complaining that Toyota had "copied" their engines. Well, sort of, but not really. Some folks didn't quite understand the sandbox they had been playing in all those years. 

 

This led to a joint NASCAR/manufacturer group that sat down and negotiated all the critical dimensions and created an actual set of working rules that they use today. 

 

 

This is how it ended up that the Ford, Chevy, and Toyota NASCAR engines are all much more like each other than any production V8 engines. A number of their parts are essentially interchangeable. 

[mariner]

Great video. cool engine. 

 

it's  nice to see the technology deployed in NSACAR that lets a 358 ci engine run at 9,000 rpm for 600 miles.

 

One downside you have to use 112 Octane fuel , very expensive and hard to get .I do wonder if it was fitted with a fuel injection system with knock sensors etc could it run on ordinary pump fuel still at 12:1 CR?

l

Also what I love about modern dynos is that for all the data logging and PC driven  displays etc the operator still has BIG lever manually connected to the  throttles!

[Bob Riebe]

Is leaded race fuel becoming harder to get?

 

Hutchinson, Mn until they destroyed the intersection with city planning had a Conoco station on the corner of highways 15 & 7 that at first had a pump with Aviation Gasoline and then into the mid-aughts had genuine leaded race fuil for sale at one of the island pumps.

 

I used to put a few gallons of either in my 1971 Impala for lead.

Edited by Bob Riebe, 08 September 2021 - 02:18.

[Canuck]

Used parts can be had fairly cheap for these engines because the pro NASCAR teams time them out quickly, when they still have plenty of use left in them for sportsmen. 

 

Just out of curiosity, what is the definition of fairly cheap? Understanding that everything is relative of course.

[Magoo]

The official NASCAR fuel is Sunoco Green E15, which is to say 15 percent ethanol. RON 104, MON 93. Nothing exotic at all. 

 

https://www.sunocora.../fuel/green-e15

 

The "street engine" above (nudge wink) could run on E85 pump gas without much trouble. 

[mariner]

I read an article recently in the US Grassroots racing magazine about them running  a Corvette Z06 project car on "E85"

 

The main point was that the fuel sold at pumps as E85 can actually have way less than 85% ethanol so using it to allow a very high CR is risky unless you either buy a premium E85 rom somebody like VP fuels or get ethanol test kit to verify the fuel bought at pump.

 

https://www.holley.c...ls/parts/26-147

[GreenMachine]

I read an article recently in the US Grassroots racing magazine about them running  a Corvette Z06 project car on "E85"

 

The main point was that the fuel sold at pumps as E85 can actually have way less than 85% ethanol so using it to allow a very high CR is risky unless you either buy a premium E85 rom somebody like VP fuels or get ethanol test kit to verify the fuel bought at pump.

 

https://www.holley.c...ls/parts/26-147

 

Boosted engines have the answer, they will be running a flex fuel sensor with a map for varying proportions of ethanol controlling boost and advance based on what the flex fuel sensor is seeing.  Atmo engines can do the same, just one less variable to map.

[Magoo]

I read an article recently in the US Grassroots racing magazine about them running  a Corvette Z06 project car on "E85"

 

The main point was that the fuel sold at pumps as E85 can actually have way less than 85% ethanol so using it to allow a very high CR is risky unless you either buy a premium E85 rom somebody like VP fuels or get ethanol test kit to verify the fuel bought at pump.

 

https://www.holley.c...ls/parts/26-147

 

 

Yes, the actual percentage is quite variable due to seasonal concerns, oil company jiggery-pokery, etc. 

[Magoo]

Just out of curiosity, what is the definition of fairly cheap? Understanding that everything is relative of course.

 

A fraction of their price new and often, cheaper than new hot rod industry parts for production V8s, although the quality is far higher. 

 

https://www.ebay.ca/..._nkw=nascar r07

[Canuck]

$400 for a new-in-box crank. $250 for a set of rods. Amazing.

[MatsNorway]

Great video. cool engine. 

 

it's  nice to see the technology deployed in NSACAR that lets a 358 ci engine run at 9,000 rpm for 600 miles.

 

One downside you have to use 112 Octane fuel , very expensive and hard to get .I do wonder if it was fitted with a fuel injection system with knock sensors etc could it run on ordinary pump fuel still at 12:1 CR?

l

Also what I love about modern dynos is that for all the data logging and PC driven  displays etc the operator still has BIG lever manually connected to the  throttles!

With fly by wire throttle you can run it on partial throttle past peak torque just like a modern street car does. That is why modern cars have their flat torque curves. If you added jungle juice and retuned it the torque curve looks more "normal" again as peak torque is a distinct peak.