62 replies to this topic

[Spillage]

Yeah, Herbert and Flavio really didn't get on. He has that in common with rather a lot of Flavio's former drivers, so you can't really blame Johnny for that.

I haven't heard much about any falling out between Herbert and Schumacher, though I did see an interview with MS in which he said he didn't think Johnny was a great teammate and had a tendency to find excuses for not beating his teammate.

Edited by Spillage, 07 September 2021 - 10:23.

[Rediscoveryx]

Yeah, Herbert and Flavio really didn't get on. He has that in common with rather a lot of Flavio's former drivers, so you can't really blame Johnny for that.

I haven't heard much about any falling out between Herbert and Schumacher, though I did see an interview with MS in which he said he didn't think Johnny was a great teammate and had a tendency to find excuses for not beating his teammate.

 

Either way, Herbert is only five years older than Schumi, and probably didn't teach him a single thing (no disrespect intended), so they hardly qualify for the topic of this thread.

[Dunc]

Would Arnoux and Prost count? The former was significantly older when the latter joined Renault in 1981 and had been touted as the first French WDC.

 

It's going to be tough for Hamilton as, for the first time, he's got a target on his back as the established best in field which is a motivation for Max and will be for Russell. The British media will have also have a field day with them and I imagine Russell is going to be the winner there as the new kid on the block.

[Bleu]

It was said that Schumacher got chance to read Herbert's telemetry, but not vice versa.

[A.Fant]

It was said that Schumacher got chance to read Herbert's telemetry, but not vice versa.

IIRC the way Johnny tells it the telemetry went both ways until he was uncomfortably close to Michael in a session, after which it became a 1-way street.

[A.Fant]

I guess the best case scenario would be something like the master-student relationship shared by Fangio and Moss, or more recently perhaps Schumacher and Massa.

The worst case would be Alonso and Hamilton or Prost and Senna. But neither is a perfect match as Alonso wasn't 'old' in 2007 and ne was Senna really 'young' in 1988, by modern standards anyway.

One thing I think we'll hear a lot about is Russell's 'inexperience' and how he needs to learn because of that. But in reality he's entering his fourth season and isn't really inexperienced at all. Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso were all world champions on or before their fourth full season. I think he'll be up to speed very quickly.

Senna was much older than Russell, but he was entering his 5th season when moving to McLaren so the amount of F1 experience is similar. George will have 57 GPs on his CV going into 2022 while Ayrton had 64 when he moved to McLaren (though Ayrton had far more experience at the sharp end of the grid).

 

I guess Vettel-Leclerc is the most straightforward comparison though. Vettel-Ricciardo also works, though Seb was much younger then.

Edited by A.Fant, 07 September 2021 - 19:42.

[D28]

What's the largest age gap between 'regular' teammates (excluding 1-offs etc)?

 

~13 years Hamilton/Russell has got to be getting up there. That's more than Schumacher/Massa, Hill/Stewart and Brabham/McLaren etc...

Brabham   Ickx gap was 19 years

[William Hunt]

What feud did they have?
I never heard of that. Do you have more information?
I followed F1 at that time already but didn't have much information as I didn't have internet acces.

 

Watch Johnny Herbert's long interview on youtube about that period and how he was treated at Benetton by Flavio & Schumacher.

[BRG]

I doubt that's the case. Russell might well be better, we don't know at the moment, but Lewis has tremendous self-belief. I don't think for one second he considers the idea that anyone is better than he is
 

Pretty much ALL top drivers are  secretly convinced that they are the best, and are only being let down by poor equipment, bad teams and misfortune. You don't get up to the top of the tree by believing that you aren't good enough.

[Rediscoveryx]

Pretty much ALL top drivers are  secretly convinced that they are the best, and are only being let down by poor equipment, bad teams and misfortune. You don't get up to the top of the tree by believing that you aren't good enough.

 

That's true - although the almighty confidence also tends to be coupled with a slight conspiratorial thinking that provides a rationalization for when someone else somehow takes the same car round the track a few tenths faster. It's not that the other guy is necessarily faster, it's because he got preferential treatment, I got held up in traffic etc etc. 

[kyle936]

Mick Schumacher and Nikita Mazepin. Mick has an old head on young shoulders while Mazepin has a mental age of two.

[Rediscoveryx]

Mick Schumacher and Nikita Mazepin. Mick has an old head on young shoulders while Mazepin has a mental age of two.

 

I'm not sure Nikita feels that Mick has taken him under his wings though.

[Singularity]

I doubt that's the case. Russell might well be better, we don't know at the moment, but Lewis has tremendous self-belief. I don't think for one second he considers the idea that anyone is better than he is
 

That is true, but I did not say that he think Russel is faster, I said he "fear" it. It does not matter how confident you are, fear is on the same coin. Hamilton wanted Bottas to stay.