1661 replies to this topic

[TomNokoe]

Thirty-six years of waiting, a four-year build-up thread, and one stunningly close qualifying session later ... it's finally time for the DUTCH GP.

 

The title rivals share the front row, and Hamilton has the inside line into Tarzanbocht. Who will swing their way to victory at the Zandvoort Jungle?

 

72 rollercoaster laps ahead for another crucial chapter of the title fight, will an irresistible force once again meet the immovable object?

 

Race start 2pm BST / 3pm CEST (2 hours 30 minutes from this post)

 

 

*Latifi and Perez pit lane start

 

 

 

Pit lane loss roughly 20-21s

 

 

--

 

Max on pole with 70,000 fans behind him. What could go wrong? 

 

There's plenty more to look out for - Ferrari trying to cement P3 in the WCC before McLaren's inevitable Monza comeback, Gasly's one-man battle to try and wrestle P5 in the WCC away from Alpine, Giovinazzi driving for his seat, Russell from P11 with free tyre choice, and Norris and Perez coming through the field. That's before considering all of the unknowns surrounding tyres, strategy, safety cars.

Edited by TomNokoe, 05 September 2021 - 10:34.

[sportyskells]

And we got good weather going by the support races

[PayasYouRace]

I’m really looking forward to what T3 is going to be like in a race situation. I can’t think of a single other corner where the racing line is round the outside.

[TomNokoe]

Pit lane for Latifi too. I wonder how long it will take them to clear Kub-Mick-Maz.

[JimmyClark]

I expect at least two safety cars, a Perez masterclass and I have this weird nagging feeling of a Bottas win.

[krapmeister]

Can't believe we haven't had an Austin Powers reference in the Dutch GP threads yet. Much disappoint.

[JimmyClark]

Can't believe we haven't had an Austin Powers reference in the Dutch GP threads yet. Much disappoint.

Sorry if this seems a silly question... What does Zandvoort have to do with Austin Powers?

[PayasYouRace]

Sorry if this seems a silly question... What does Zandvoort have to do with Austin Powers?

The last film had a Dutch villain.

Fortunately the rest of us are more mature and have superior taste to krapmeister.

[JimmyClark]

The last film had a Dutch villain.

Fortunately the rest of us are more mature and have superior taste to krapmeister.

Ah OK, I don't think I saw the last one anyway. Thanks!

[statman]

[Chris Medland] Pit lane starts for Perez and Latifi. New Honda power unit for Perez - taking a penalty that was always likely at some stage - but the energy store is a different spec. Front wing/nose assembly is a different spec for Latifi

[Goron3]

Max needs to focus on Bottas, not Lewis.

According to Mark Hughes, Mercedes are running a lower downforce config compared to Red Bull. It'll be interesting to see how that works out for them in terms of tyre wear.

I fully expect a safety car after lap 1.

[ConsiderAndGo]

No brainer for Perez there. Interesting the ES is a new spec. That means they’ve been running with the 2020 spec all season, right ?

Edited by ConsiderAndGo, 05 September 2021 - 10:43.

[jcbc3]

Ah OK, I don't think I saw the last one anyway. Thanks!

 

How about a smoke and a pancake?

[Augurk]

I expect at least two safety cars, a Perez masterclass and I have this weird nagging feeling of a Bottas win.

High chance of having a Red Bull and Mercedes in the Tarzan gravel right after the start I'm afraid.

[krapmeister]

The last film had a Dutch villain.

Fortunately the rest of us are more mature and have superior taste to krapmeister.

Sheesh... tough crowd.

[Ali623]

Hamilton to punt Verstappen into the barriers at T3 on lap one.

[Marklar]

Bottas will jump Lewis at the start and then kick out Max in T3

[milestone 11]

High chance of having a Red Bull and Mercedes in the Tarzan gravel right after the start I'm afraid.

Pessimist, Optimist, you choose.

[Anja]

Hamilton to punt Verstappen into the barriers at T3 on lap one.

 

Why do you hate our forum's mods so much?

[aray]

Would have prefer for new PU and pitlane start for Norris too. But Mclaren are mostly dumb when it comes to strategy.

[jjcale]

How many safety cars today - how many Red flags.

 

I say 3 and 1 .... you?

[domhnall]

So how many laps in before someone claims this track is worse than Monaco?? 

 

Early laps will almost certainly be a procession, just hope strategy or safety car chaos plays a part after that.

[jjcale]

Bottas will jump Lewis at the start and then kick out Max in T3

 

After all that seat still has not been announced yet ....

[jcbc3]

High chance of having a Red Bull and Mercedes in the Tarzan gravel right after the start I'm afraid.

 

Like this:

[milestone 11]

So how many laps in before someone claims this track is worse than Monaco?? 
 

None

[noikeee]

We'll have a procession occasionally broken up by moments of chaos.

[JeePee]

High chance of having a Red Bull and Mercedes in the Tarzan gravel right after the start I'm afraid.

Tarzan should be fine. I fear more from T3. The front car is very vulnerable for dive bombs that end bad.

[IrvTheSwerve]

I think Max will win but I kind of want Hamilton to pull off an upset here on enemy soil (or sand, even). 
 

Bound to be a safety car. I’m waiting for the inevitable red flag for gravel on the track.

 

Strategy could be very interesting.

 

Other than all that, Formula 1 cars racing on a proper circuit rather than a car park will be great.

[jcbc3]

My feeling of the track is that in feel it's the same as Suzuka. Super to drive, but not much good for racing

[TomNokoe]

I struggle to see how Mercedes can use Bottas that effectively unless they get super aggressive.

 

The most I expect is the usual double-undercut that forces Max to pit earlier than he'd like, or the fake double under-cut that forces Max to pit in reaction to Bottas, whilst Hamilton is left out, but I don't think either of these options are that powerful considering Max's underlying pace.

 

The temperatures today are the warmest all weekend, so I do wonder if we'll see some tyre deg.

 

If we do get a late-race safety car, whoever is running second on track will have the luxury of doing the opposite of the car ahead. This could set up a thrilling final stint.

[JimmyClark]

Hopefully we get a proper grid start. The last start was behind a safety car, and the one before that only had one car.

[Fastcake]

A collision between Hamilton and Verstappen today would be fun, no doubt about that. Particularly if Max was held to blame today in front of a home crowd!

I’m not expecting much of a race, though you never know, and it’s nice to see a returning event where the locals are actually interested. It might be a nightmare if you’re a Dutch F1 fan who hates Verstappen. Years of hoping for a return to Zandvoort and you’ve got Max’s face everywhere.

[ARTGP]

People are forgetting Bottas's propensity for losing positions off the start. That could knock him out of the equation.

[FLB]

My feeling of the track is that in feel it's the same as Suzuka. Super to drive, but not much good for racing

Well, we're having a strange year, one where Barhain opener and the Paul-Ricard produced two of the best of the year, so... 

Edited by FLB, 05 September 2021 - 11:15.

[IrvTheSwerve]

I can see what people are saying in terms of the track being poor for ‘racing’, but aren’t these cars racing each other hard on a very challenging track, even if it is a procession? Plenty of opportunity for a driver to screw up and lose places. 
 

Bucket loads of DRS passes doesn’t make a great race, in my opinion. Any overtake today will be spectacular and the drivers will have to have their wits about them. There will be a point where someone tries a dive bomb. 

[TomNokoe]

Teams warned blocking rivals in pits will be considered a rules breach

 

 

This will be insanely difficult to police. To abide by this rule, you may have to break another and drive deliberately slowly at pit entry (a la Hamilton Bahrain 2017).

 

I hope for F1s sake we don't get a pit stop rush because it will likely end up with a blocked pit lane.

Edited by TomNokoe, 05 September 2021 - 11:21.

[FullOppositeLock]

Sneaky suspicion we may see an offensive two stopper from Max again today

[noikeee]

Well, we're having a strange year, one where Barhain opener and the Paul-Ricard produced two of the best of the year, so... 

 

Bahrain's a fantastic racing track so that's normal. Tracks like Suzuka and Zandvoort are fantastic driving tracks. 

 

For me both kinds of circuit have a place in the calendar. Just watching the cars go around here is spectacular even if there's not a ton of action.

[liamski]

I think Gasly can be a huge factor today. If he can stay close to the Mercs he could disrupt any strategy tactics they might use. Actually think this is going to be very interesting today, provided they all get through T1 or T3...

[ajcrean]

After last weekend's circus I'll be thrilled just to see some green flag running (although I predict chaos on the opening lap, safety cars galore and a red flag or two.  Here's hoping the Class of '21 proves me wrong!)

[milestone 11]

Is that Ivanhoe in the Ferrari shirt?

[FullOppositeLock]

I think Gasly can be a huge factor today. If he can stay close to the Mercs he could disrupt any strategy tactics they might use. Actually think this is going to be very interesting today, provided they all get through T1 or T3...

Top three will drop Gasly like a stone I’m afraid.

[TomNokoe]

I think Gasly can be a huge factor today. If he can stay close to the Mercs he could disrupt any strategy tactics they might use. Actually think this is going to be very interesting today, provided they all get through T1 or T3...

The AlphaT doesn't seem to retain its quali pace into Sunday, unlike Ferrari and McLaren, so I think the pit stop gap towards Gasly will open up within 16-18 laps, ideal for an aggressive two stopper, but at the mercy of a mid-race SC.

Edited by TomNokoe, 05 September 2021 - 11:37.

[liamski]

Top three will drop Gasly like a stone I’m afraid.

Unless Max can keep the pace slow enough to enable him to hang on to them. I can see this happening

[Donkey]

How many safety cars today - how many Red flags.

 

I say 3 and 1 .... you?

I'm going to go for 2 safety cars and 2 red flags but the safety cars are only brought out for a couple of laps before they realise that they need to red flag it to sort out the track.

[PayasYouRace]

Teams warned blocking rivals in pits will be considered a rules breach

 

 

This will be insanely difficult to police. To abide by this rule, you may have to break another and drive deliberately slowly at pit entry (a la Hamilton Bahrain 2017).

 

I hope for F1s sake we don't get a pit stop rush because it will likely end up with a blocked pit lane.

Nothing has changed though.

[Goron3]

I feel like the chance of a red flag for an accident is quite high given how close the barriers are to the circuit. Usually if a car goes off and there's a SC, teams come in for a shortened stop, but I wonder if we might see gambles for a red flag and free tyre change.

[ANF]

Teams warned blocking rivals in pits will be considered a rules breach
 

 
This will be insanely difficult to police. To abide by this rule, you may have to break another and drive deliberately slowly at pit entry (a la Hamilton Bahrain 2017).
 
I hope for F1s sake we don't get a pit stop rush because it will likely end up with a blocked pit lane.

"may be considered an infringement of the principles of fairness in a competition..."
First time I've ever heard of such a principle in Formula 1!

[Thursday]

Breaking a personal rule I have put a couple of quid on Verstappen. If he wins I double my money. If he doesn't win then Hamilton will. Either way I'll be happy.

[FLB]

Who here was watching in 1985? We're living a historic moment. F1 back at a place where it belongs  

 

 

The Zandvoort race that has stuck with me the most was 1983. You had:

 

1. A new Tyrrell (teams could still introduce a brand new chassis during the season);

2. TAG Porsche's debut with McLaren (and Lauda leading with it);

3. *The* moment of the season, when Prost and Piquet took each other out at Tarzan while fighting for the lead;

4. A Ferrari 1-2, with Arnoux winning (my favourite at the time), one year after Pironi had won his final Grand-Prix.

 

   

Edited by FLB, 05 September 2021 - 11:49.