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DRS on Zandvoort banking in 2022?


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#1 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 06:17

In a recent Autosport article (https://www.autospor...n-2022/6661572/) Ross Brawn mentions that he hopes that in the 2022 Dutch GP, DRS can be activated earlier (on the banking), making it more powerful.

 

Now, personally I am very skeptical that this would be a good idea. I think that the DRS sweet spot was quite close to being hit at Zandvoort, as it allowed drivers to get close enough to pull a move into Tarzan, but generally there were very few "highway overtakes" where the passing car just cruises by with no chance for the overtaken driver to defend his position. The difficulties overtaking on the main straight also forced drivers to attempt manouvers at other parts of the track (mainly Perez in Sector 2), rather than just sitting back a few more corners with a guaranteed cruise-by on the main straight.

 

Granted that we'll have entirely new cars next year, and that it's therefore difficult to predict how effective the DRS will be (and whether or not we'll need it at all to have good racing), but I think it's a bit troubling that Ross Brawn doesn't see this.

 

Thoughts on the matter?



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#2 Ivanhoe

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 06:25

To quote Brawn:

But there was overtaking, you could do it. It was tough, but it could happen, which was great.

Overtaking shouldn’t be easy, I think it was fine, Zandvoort is a challenging track in many ways.



#3 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 06:33

To quote Brawn:

 

 

Overtaking shouldn’t be easy, I think it was fine, Zandvoort is a challenging track in many ways.

 

Yes, I think that the Brawn quote "tough, but could happen" is kind of the definition of how it should be.



#4 Peat

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 06:36

myeah, but....The overtakes that happened were by cars with a massive tyre advantage. 

By all means start the DRS sooner, but end them sooner too. Allow cars to close the gaps, but at least make the out-breaking element a sporting contest instead of a motorway drive-by. 



#5 Anderis

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 07:39

By all means start the DRS sooner, but end them sooner too. Allow cars to close the gaps, but at least make the out-breaking element a sporting contest instead of a motorway drive-by. 

This.

 

I've never understood why they don't try to do something in that direction. It would be best if DRS helped to close the gap but not to complete a maneuver in an easy way. Is DRS closing immediately after catching up to the car in front beyond what's possible with current technology?
 



#6 Ivanhoe

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 07:42

This.

 

I've never understood why they don't try to do something in that direction. It would be best if DRS helped to close the gap but not to complete a maneuver in an easy way. Is DRS closing immediately after catching up to the car in front beyond what's possible with current technology?
 

Should be the same as detecting the gap of 1 second to open it, I'd think. Don't know if you need a fixed detection point to actually open/close DRS.



#7 tom

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 07:59

I must be well out of the loop.
But I thought I read there was no DRS on the 2022 cars?

#8 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 08:03

I must be well out of the loop.
But I thought I read there was no DRS on the 2022 cars?


You wish, but there is. The demo car IIRC didn't have one fitted, but that's not real

#9 Peat

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 08:07

I actually wonder if DRS will be that effective on the '22 cars. The rear wings are designed to be inefficient, with no end plates, so alot of the air will spill off them anyway. I don't see the DRS having as large an effect as now. 



#10 Anderis

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 08:09

I must be well out of the loop.
But I thought I read there was no DRS on the 2022 cars?

I don't think there was ever an idea to drop DRS for 2022.

 

There might have been some talk from a person like Ross Brawn (?) that DRS can be made less powerful (shorter DRS zones) if the new rules prove to allow for closer racing or maybe even dropped alltogether in the future, but for 2022 it will stay.



#11 PayasYouRace

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 08:12

I actually wonder if DRS will be that effective on the '22 cars. The rear wings are designed to be inefficient, with no end plates, so alot of the air will spill off them anyway. I don't see the DRS having as large an effect as now.


DRS will be more effective on a less efficient wing. An inefficient wing will have a lot of drag, so DRS will dump most of that drag.

Having said that, I’m not sure I agree with your assessment. The Silverstone mock-up clearly had endplates and their curved design looks more efficient than what the current rules have. But then DRS will be less effective on a more efficient wing.

#12 Risil

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 08:37

Should be the same as detecting the gap of 1 second to open it, I'd think. Don't know if you need a fixed detection point to actually open/close DRS.

 

It would be interesting to know what control drivers have over closing DRS. I recall reading back when it was introduced (10 years ago  :eek: ) that it would close automatically when the driver hit the brakes, not sure if that was a failsafe or the main way of shutting it off.



#13 Peat

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 08:46

They shut anytime the driver goes below 100% throttle. 



#14 Peat

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 08:51

Having said that, I’m not sure I agree with your assessment. The Silverstone mock-up clearly had endplates 

 

I think we're talking at cross purposes. The mock up doesn't have [what I would call] endplates above the rear wing main element. 

 

https://youtu.be/t0-wXT12wgw?t=136



#15 PayasYouRace

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 08:55

I think we're talking at cross purposes. The mock up doesn't have [what I would call] endplates above the rear wing main element.

https://youtu.be/t0-wXT12wgw?t=136


I’ll watch Scott’s video after work.

The new car definitely has end plates though. They’re blended endplates on the mock-up.

#16 as65p

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 09:21

It would be interesting to know what control drivers have over closing DRS. I recall reading back when it was introduced (10 years ago  :eek: ) that it would close automatically when the driver hit the brakes, not sure if that was a failsafe or the main way of shutting it off.

I reckon that's still there and absolutely needed. Without it, the carnage would be massive.



#17 Risil

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 09:23

I'm not sure I recall a single catastrophic DRS failure, which if correct would be pretty impressive really.

#18 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 09:26

I'm not sure I recall a single catastrophic DRS failure, which if correct would be pretty impressive really.

 

Marcus Ericsson has had two I believe (Silverstone and Monza in his final year).



#19 Burai

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 09:31

Massa had one, Canada FP1, 2016.



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#20 JimmyClark

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 09:33

I'm not sure I recall a single catastrophic DRS failure, which if correct would be pretty impressive really.

 

This was probably the most high profile one. 



#21 OO7

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 10:16

As Peat already mentioned, the passing we saw on Sunday was only really possible due to massive tyre offsets as is usually the case.  The ideal length of a DRS zone, should in my opinion be based on the following:

 

Two cars with similar levels of drag, engine/PU performance and tyre wear, where the chasing car is able to lap 0.2 - 0.25 seconds per lap faster.  Under these circumstances, the DRS zone should be such that the chasing car is able to be front wing to rear wheel or front wing half way along side the leading car at the braking zone.



#22 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 10:21

As Peat already mentioned, the passing we saw on Sunday was only really possible due to massive tyre offsets as is usually the case.  The ideal length of a DRS zone, should in my opinion be based on the following:

 

Two cars with similar levels of drag, engine/PU performance and tyre wear, where the chasing car is able to lap 0.2 - 0.25 seconds per lap faster.  Under these circumstances, the DRS zone should be such that the chasing car is able to be front wing to rear wheel or front wing half way along side the leading car at the braking zone.

 

Starting from how far back?

 

I don't think it's reasonable to expect that they'll get the DRS zones absolutely spot on at every event. Sometimes they'll be a bit too conservative and sometimes a bit too generous. But by and large, they should never be set in such a way that they make overtaking easy, and therefore they should err on the side of conservatism rather than generosity.



#23 IrvTheSwerve

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 10:25

Slightly off topic but as I’ve mentioned before, I don’t think that the specific DRS opening point should be set until FP3 on Saturday. Give the teams the zones on a Friday (exactly as they do now) but have a system whereby the zones can be changed by Saturday depending on how effective/ineffective they are. I hate that we go to races sometimes and it’s clear how powerful DRS is ten mins into FP1, then we just have to accept it for the rest of the weekend.



#24 ArrowsLivery

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 10:29

Lets try not having DRS at all instead!



#25 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 10:31

Slightly off topic but as I’ve mentioned before, I don’t think that the specific DRS opening point should be set until FP3 on Saturday. Give the teams the zones on a Friday (exactly as they do now) but have a system whereby the zones can be changed by Saturday depending on how effective/ineffective they are. I hate that we go to races sometimes and it’s clear how powerful DRS is ten mins into FP1, then we just have to accept it for the rest of the weekend.

 

In theory that's a good idea - but how would you judge the effectiveness of the DRS in Free Practice sessions? 



#26 IrvTheSwerve

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 10:36

In theory that's a good idea - but how would you judge the effectiveness of the DRS in Free Practice sessions? 

Indeed it would be difficult, I’m not saying it’s necessarily the answer, but at least have some wriggle room in the regs for this to be possible.  :)



#27 OO7

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 10:36

Starting from how far back?

 

I don't think it's reasonable to expect that they'll get the DRS zones absolutely spot on at every event. Sometimes they'll be a bit too conservative and sometimes a bit too generous. But by and large, they should never be set in such a way that they make overtaking easy, and therefore they should err on the side of conservatism rather than generosity.

I generally agree with what you're saying, which is why I included the criteria that should be used to calculate DRS zone lengths.  It can never be perfect, because in one race at a particular circuit DRS could be pretty faultless, then in another race at the same circuit with a strong headwind, all of a sudden DRS is overpowered.

I'll say again as I've said many times in the past, I don't recall a single race in which I could say DRS was overpowered, based on two cars of similar performance (the car behind a couple of tenths faster and the driver ahead not making any type of mistake prior to being overtaken).  Large tyre offsets are what lead to easy DRS passes.


Edited by OO7, 07 September 2021 - 10:50.


#28 Peat

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 10:45

I'm not sure I recall a single catastrophic DRS failure, which if correct would be pretty impressive really.

 

I remember the heady days when they could open it wherever they liked in practice/qual - Sutil smeared his Force India down the pitwall in Melbourne by getting a bit greedy. 



#29 cpbell

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 12:37

I generally agree with what you're saying, which is why I included the criteria that should be used to calculate DRS zone lengths.  It can never be perfect, because in one race at a particular circuit DRS could be pretty faultless, then in another race at the same circuit with a strong headwind, all of a sudden DRS is overpowered.

I'll say again as I've said many times in the past, I don't recall a single race in which I could say DRS was overpowered, based on two cars of similar performance (the car behind a couple of tenths faster and the driver ahead not making any type of mistake prior to being overtaken).  Large tyre offsets are what lead to easy DRS passes.

I can recall at least on year in China when DRS passes were complete halfway down the straight.



#30 kumo7

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 12:39

DRS on the bank, Interesting proposition.

 

at turn 3 there were a few different lines. With DRS, this wil also be the case. The car in front will most likely take the Lewis' line cutting the apex and with DRS allowed in '22 the car behind wil take the Max's line on the top end of the bank.

We will see...



#31 OO7

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 15:10

I can recall at least on year in China when DRS passes were complete halfway down the straight.

I think that may have been the first year of Pirelli's renaissance in 2011, where cars were three stopping due to the tyres being shot after a few laps.  In any event it's very likely the delta been the cars in question was significant at that point.


Edited by OO7, 07 September 2021 - 15:12.


#32 OO7

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 15:11

DRS on the bank, Interesting proposition.

 

at turn 3 there were a few different lines. With DRS, this wil also be the case. The car in front will most likely take the Lewis' line cutting the apex and with DRS allowed in '22 the car behind wil take the Max's line on the top end of the bank.

We will see...

With DRS on the banking all cars will still follow the traditional racing line.


Edited by OO7, 07 September 2021 - 15:17.


#33 ARTGP

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 17:56

In a recent Autosport article (https://www.autospor...n-2022/6661572/) Ross Brawn mentions that he hopes that in the 2022 Dutch GP, DRS can be activated earlier (on the banking), making it more powerful.

 

Now, personally I am very skeptical that this would be a good idea. I think that the DRS sweet spot was quite close to being hit at Zandvoort, as it allowed drivers to get close enough to pull a move into Tarzan, but generally there were very few "highway overtakes" where the passing car just cruises by with no chance for the overtaken driver to defend his position. The difficulties overtaking on the main straight also forced drivers to attempt manouvers at other parts of the track (mainly Perez in Sector 2), rather than just sitting back a few more corners with a guaranteed cruise-by on the main straight.

 

Granted that we'll have entirely new cars next year, and that it's therefore difficult to predict how effective the DRS will be (and whether or not we'll need it at all to have good racing), but I think it's a bit troubling that Ross Brawn doesn't see this.

 

Thoughts on the matter?

 

I think it's bizarre that Brawn is making judgements about the lengths of the DRS zone, for cars that have not turned a wheel. Surely the DRS need be adapted to the generation of car and the 2022 spec acr should not need as much DRS? 


Edited by ARTGP, 07 September 2021 - 17:56.


#34 SCUDmissile

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 17:58

I am hopeful DRS does not need to exist after 2022.

#35 ARTGP

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 17:59

I'm not sure I recall a single catastrophic DRS failure, which if correct would be pretty impressive really.

 

Newey's Mclarens were always ahead of their time. lol.


Edited by ARTGP, 07 September 2021 - 17:59.


#36 OO7

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Posted 08 September 2021 - 10:16

I am hopeful DRS does not need to exist after 2022.

It certainly will need to exist.  Circuits such as the Hungaroring, Marina Bay, Zandvoort, Mexico, Red Bull Ring, Circuit de Barcelona, Paul Ricard?, Circuit Gilles Villeneuve?, Interlagos?, Suzuka?  The circuits listed without question marks will definitely still require DRS, the ones with question marks may require DRS.  Another factor to consider (and quite an important one), is how much of a slipstream the next generation of F1 cars will create,as this will undoubtedly influence the use and length of DRS zones.


Edited by OO7, 08 September 2021 - 11:22.


#37 ArrowsLivery

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Posted 08 September 2021 - 11:04

It certainly will need to exist.  Circuits such as the Hungaroring, Marina Bay, Zandvoort, Mexico, Red Bull Ring, Circuit de Barcelona, Paul Ricard?, Circuit Gilles Villeneuve?, Interlagos?, Suzuka?  The circuits listed without question marks will definitely still require DRS, the ones with question marks may require DRS.  Another factor to consider (and quite an important one), is how much a slipstream the next generation of F1 cars will create,as this will undoubtedly influence the use and length of DRS zones.

No track NEEDS DRS, most of F1s best and most exciting seasons were without DRS. A lot of people I know have quit watching F1 precisely because DRS has ruined on track action.



#38 OO7

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Posted 08 September 2021 - 11:21

No track NEEDS DRS, most of F1s best and most exciting seasons were without DRS. A lot of people I know have quit watching F1 precisely because DRS has ruined on track action.

You're correct that no track "NEEDS DRS".  The purpose of DRS isn't to create exciting seasons, it's to create exciting races.  2010 was a fantastic season from the PoV of the WDC, however practically all the races that year were snooze-fests barring 3 or 4 and half of those were due to wet weather.


Edited by OO7, 08 September 2021 - 11:23.


#39 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 08 September 2021 - 11:30

You're correct that no track "NEEDS DRS".  The purpose of DRS isn't to create exciting seasons, it's to create exciting races.  2010 was a fantastic season from the PoV of the WDC, however practically all the races that year were snooze-fests barring 3 or 4 and half of those were due to wet weather.

 

But that'll also depend on the effectiveness of the DRS. If previously, overtaking was so difficult that it was more or less impossible, DRS has some times made it too easy. So take the Alonso-Hamilton fight in Hungary (and subsequent Ocon win). Had the DRS been slightly more effective then Hamilton would just have cruised by at first attempt.

 

With an effective enough DRS; it's almost as if they are racing ghost cars (to use a sim racing metaphor) rather than actually racing each other, as there's no possibility to defend your position. It's just as predictable as before, only then you knew that the faster driver wouldn't get through and now you know that he'll definitely get through.



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#40 Ali_G

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Posted 08 September 2021 - 11:56

It certainly will need to exist. Circuits such as the Hungaroring, Marina Bay, Zandvoort, Mexico, Red Bull Ring, Circuit de Barcelona, Paul Ricard?, Circuit Gilles Villeneuve?, Interlagos?, Suzuka? The circuits listed without question marks will definitely still require DRS, the ones with question marks may require DRS. Another factor to consider (and quite an important one), is how much of a slipstream the next generation of F1 cars will create,as this will undoubtedly influence the use and length of DRS zones.


Why do you think this? Why even say this before seeing what the racing will be like with the new cars.

If anything the design of certain circuits (slow corners onto straights) will hamper passing with the new cars.

#41 OO7

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Posted 08 September 2021 - 16:46

But that'll also depend on the effectiveness of the DRS. If previously, overtaking was so difficult that it was more or less impossible, DRS has some times made it too easy. So take the Alonso-Hamilton fight in Hungary (and subsequent Ocon win). Had the DRS been slightly more effective then Hamilton would just have cruised by at first attempt.

 

With an effective enough DRS; it's almost as if they are racing ghost cars (to use a sim racing metaphor) rather than actually racing each other, as there's no possibility to defend your position. It's just as predictable as before, only then you knew that the faster driver wouldn't get through and now you know that he'll definitely get through.

I'm very glad you raised this point Rediscoveryx.  I've noticed that quite often those opposed to DRS only focus on its effectiveness after they've witnessed and easy overtake (almost unequivocally caused by significant tyre offsets).  Those same individuals tend to ignore the 20 plus laps of the first stint in that same race, where both cars were on similar tyres and the same strategy, with the chasing car a few tenths per lap quicker, but unable to even close to within one second and get DRS (e.g completely impossible to overtake).

 

The Alonso-Hamilton battle is the type of duel I'd like to see between cars where the pace difference between them is a quarter of a second or so.  Most of us want to see drivers in machines of equal performance compete against one another, so for instance, Red Bull and Mercedes that are closely matched at the moment.  Performance between them can vary by a quarter of a second depending on driver, circuit, qualification pace and race pace, however without a tyre offset strategy you can kiss goodbye to any on track battle between the two, because with just a quarter of a second pace advantage, it's highly unlikely the chasing car will be able to get within one second for DRS activation, let alone engage in wheel to wheel shenanigans.  If the chasing car does manage to get DRS, they'll still be too far behind for it to be meaningful.

 

You mentioned the Alonso-Hamilton battle in Hungary.  At that point Hamilton's tyre offset enabled him to lap around two seconds per lap quicker than Alonso, Hamilton also had DRS and these were the overwhelming circumstances necessary to give us a battle.  To put this into perspective, Hamilton's Pole time was a 1:15.419 while Räikkönen in thirteenth managed a 1:17.564 in Q2, so the qualifying pace difference between them was about two seconds.  Imagine this qualification pace advantage translated to race pace and it was one of those topsy-turvy races in which Hamilton found himself behind Räikkönen battling for position, with Verstappen the next car ahead.  In this situation you're asking to have an intense battle between two cars in completely difference realms of Formula One.

 

The Mercedes is a tier 1, front running car, while the Alfa Romeo is a back of the grid car.  You're seeking an intense, closely fought duel between an Alfa Romeo and a Mercedes and then an equally epic duel between a Mercedes and Red Bull.  This simply isn't possible, because if DRS is catered towards competition between a front-runner and a back of the grid car, then it will be utterly ineffective between two front-runners.  I've always said that DRS should be geared towards competition between similar cars, which would mean easier overtakes against cars lower down the field.

 

It should also be noted that easy overtakes isn't something new.  In this turbo-hybrid era, significant tyre offsets are what cause easy passes, in the previous turbo era fuel offsets were used instead, with the faster car saving fuel, then turning up the boost for an easy pass.  Prior to aero being so dominant, a good slipstream with a long enough straight lead to easy passes.



#42 ARTGP

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Posted 08 September 2021 - 17:23

You're seeking an intense, closely fought duel between an Alfa Romeo and a Mercedes and then an equally epic duel between a Mercedes and Red Bull.  This simply isn't possible, because if DRS is catered towards competition between a front-runner and a back of the grid car, then it will be utterly ineffective between two front-runners.  I've always said that DRS should be geared towards competition between similar cars, which would mean easier overtakes against cars lower down the field.

 

It should also be noted that easy overtakes isn't something new.  In this turbo-hybrid era, significant tyre offsets are what cause easy passes, in the previous turbo era fuel offsets were used instead, with the faster car saving fuel, then turning up the boost for an easy pass.  Prior to aero being so dominant, a good slipstream with a long enough straight lead to easy passes.

 

Very provocative thoughts. To make DRS change effectiveness depending on who is being races. I can't say I'd like that. Top tier cars are not entitled to overtake a Williams just so they can race a similar top tier car. You race the car in front of you, that's what racing has always been. It shouldn't get easier because it's a backmarker. They have a right to be sat in P2, with the same tools to fight as everyone else.


Edited by ARTGP, 08 September 2021 - 17:24.


#43 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 08 September 2021 - 17:31

Very provocative thoughts. To make DRS change effectiveness depending on who is being races. I can't say I'd like that. Top tier cars are not entitled to overtake a Williams just so they can race a similar top tier car. You race the car in front of you, that's what racing has always been. It shouldn't get easier because it's a backmarker. They have a right to be sat in P2, with the same tools to fight as everyone else.

I don't think it's about entitlement. It's about what do you tune it for?

Do you tune it for us to have great racing between similar cars or do we tune so that we have great racing from fast cars coming through the field but to be utterly useless when cars are similar?



#44 OO7

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Posted 08 September 2021 - 17:55

Why do you think this? Why even say this before seeing what the racing will be like with the new cars.

If anything the design of certain circuits (slow corners onto straights) will hamper passing with the new cars.

I feel that I've watched enough single seater racing series, including F2 (GP2) and F3 (GP3), as well as other series such as GT racing and Porsche Super Cup to form that opinion, granted it may transpire that I'm wrong at the end of the day, but it's my opinion based on what I know and what I've seen in racing.  In many of those categories, even though the cars can follow much more closely compared to F1, the slipstream effect isn't strong enough to allow true wheel to wheel racing.

 

As for the bolded, that's exactly my point, which is why you'd still need DRS at those circuits.


Edited by OO7, 08 September 2021 - 18:14.


#45 OO7

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Posted 08 September 2021 - 18:10

I don't think it's about entitlement. It's about what do you tune it for?

Do you tune it for us to have great racing between similar cars or do we tune so that we have great racing from fast cars coming through the field but to be utterly useless when cars are similar?

Exactly :up:

 

DRS is a simple system incapable of varied effectiveness based on the competition being raced, so it has to be tuned for a specific set of circumstances.  Even if it's tuned "perfectly" for a calm day, a headwind down the straight could then make it overpowered, so in it's current guise it'll never be perfect.

 

Also what's the point of tuning it for front-runners verses back of the grid cars, when that's generally a rare and unusual circumstance.  I think it also needs to be understood, that if the technology existed to completely eliminate loss of downforce while in the wake of a chasing car (something which practically everyone wishes would happen), yet maintain the slipstream effect we see today, front running cars would carve their way through the back of the grid cars, barring a few of the circuits on the calendar.



#46 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 08 September 2021 - 18:14

At Zandvoort I think you needed DRS  + a car about 1.5 sec a lap faster or a car 2+ sec a lap faster 

 

For a 1m10s circuit that is a ridiculous gap needed



#47 ArrowsLivery

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Posted 08 September 2021 - 18:18

You're correct that no track "NEEDS DRS". The purpose of DRS isn't to create exciting seasons, it's to create exciting races. 2010 was a fantastic season from the PoV of the WDC, however practically all the races that year were snooze-fests barring 3 or 4 and half of those were due to wet weather.


And many races post DRS have been boring snooze fests because drivers in the top cars breeze past the field without any effort whatsoever if they happen to find themselves in the back. The balance must be closer to difficult overtaking over DRS cruise-by’s.

#48 Ivanhoe

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Posted 08 September 2021 - 18:21

At Zandvoort I think you needed DRS  + a car about 1.5 sec a lap faster or a car 2+ sec a lap faster 

 

For a 1m10s circuit that is a ridiculous gap needed

AMuS (Michael Schmidt) was talking about 1.2 seconds delta needed for an overtake.



#49 ARTGP

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Posted 08 September 2021 - 18:23

At Zandvoort I think you needed DRS  + a car about 1.5 sec a lap faster or a car 2+ sec a lap faster 

 

For a 1m10s circuit that is a ridiculous gap needed

 

Some nuance here. What you need is to be quicker in the part of the track where overtaking is possible. If you are 2 sec a lap faster, but dog slow in the straights, then it doesn't matter. You can't run into the back of your rival in the corners.



#50 ArrowsLivery

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Posted 08 September 2021 - 18:26

Some nuance here. What you need is to be quicker in the part of the track where overtaking is possible. If you are 2 sec a lap faster, but dog slow in the straights, then it doesn't matter. You can't run into the back of your rival in the corners.

Exactly. The hope with the new cars is that the following car will lose less grip through the corners and they’ll be closer to getting into the slipstream which should allow for a legitimate overtaking opportunity.