84 replies to this topic

[Bleu]

I guess this is a pause in the Mercedes Young driver program

 

After Russell is signed to the factory team, the driver highest in the junior ranks is Vesti who hasn't really been spectacular in this year's F3 season. Then they probably have to wait for Antonelli who just jumped out of karting. Aron is between them but lacking really good results. 

[Broekschaap]

What exactly does it mean to "upset Mercedes"? Will Mercedes now send inferior engines? What is the fear here? Mercedes do not bankroll Williams nor do they have the ability to incapacitate Williams in any way that would be legal. Contracts were signed. Mercedes will be the ones hurting by breaking them.

 

If Merc want a say in the affairs of Williams, then buy them out, as RB have done with Minardi.

If it's a straightforward contract which handles the exchange of engines and money you are absolutely right.  And I am happy Williams is still able to make their own driver decisions. The strange thing however for me is that Toto acted like there is something in the fineprints of the contract that it was not completely a free choice. So i do wonder what that was all about.

Edited by Broekschaap, 08 September 2021 - 18:34.

[BRG]

Albon has driven for two years, three quarters of that in a top team, he has podiums 

ANd yet some folk keep banging on about how Hulkenberg would have been a better choice!        

[HeadFirst]

Yeah, I'm tired of those constant calls for young drivers. F1 is not a young driver academy, the teams should go for drivers that'll do the best job for them, even if those drivers are not future WDCs. The vast majority of drivers in F2 are not future WDCs either. The only thing that constant juggling of young drivers would achieve would be to lower the level the sporting level of part of the grid and make it easier for the teams that go for proven drivers to pull ahead. And we would maybe get one overlooked talent to develop into a top driver every decade or two. I doubt anything more frequent. Not worth it IMO.

 

The only two drivers in F2 that have a racing record that suggests they have a good chance of ever reaching or bettering the level of drivers like Albon or Hulkenberg are Piastri and Pourchaire and for the latter it's probably a year too early for F1 debut. So that leaves Piastri. Yeah, it sucks that he won't be in F1 next year but blame Alpine, he is contracted to them. Constantly taking other teams' young drivers on a loan with no F1 experience and giving them back as soon as they come good is not a recipe to progress into a competitive team.

 

It's the "see what they do" phrase that bothers me. That's what F2 is for. While promotion to F1 need not come with a guaranty of stardom, there should be a demonstration of more than just speed, or a couple of race wins. Consistency, maturity, and the willingness to learn should also be a part of the package. 

[ANF]

Like I said in the silly season thread:
 

Great to have such a loveable character back in F1!

[ForzaFormula]

Would be hilarious if Albon absolutely butchers Latifi.

 

Or Latifi absolutely butchers Albon, probably be pretty close overall or Albon could do a Gasly, we have to see.

[Rodaknee]

What exactly does it mean to "upset Mercedes"? Will Mercedes now send inferior engines? What is the fear here? Mercedes do not bankroll Williams nor do they have the ability to incapacitate Williams in any way that would be legal. Contracts were signed. Mercedes will be the ones hurting by breaking them.

 

If Merc want a say in the affairs of Williams, then buy them out, as RB have done with Minardi.

We all know not all engines are equal.  Mercedes are supplying 8 engines at every race.  Williams might discover their supply comes from those that don't do so well in testing.  They might also have to wait for updates.  McLaren and AM have done much better in recent years, both are investing in their factories.  Williams are now owned by blood suckers, they may claim to be spending money at the factory, but who knows for sure.

 

If Williams believe they will do better with a Honda/RB engine with a VW sticker, good luck to them.  Mercedes don't make any money out of supplying them with engines, losing a customer might not be regarded as bad news, it's unlikely Williams will be troubling the front of the grid for a very long time.  There may have been good will between Mercedes and Williams former owners, could be that has gone.

[YamahaV10]

I would have signed the torpedo instead of Albon

[Yamamoto]

I think Albon will have Latifi covered. I'm pleased about this, comes across like a decent guy and have followed his progress since he was on the dust jacket of Autocourse 2008.

[danmills]

It's a shame we have the min engine limit. I'd like to have seen all new engines taped and sealed and have the FIA delegate them to relevant teams like a lottery system on Thursday before the weekend action. That way it completely removes speculation about inferior engines being given to the likes of Williams or Aston.

If they upgrade, then upgrade the entire supply.

[SparkPlug86]

Albon is a decent choice and I’m pleased he is getting another shot in F1.

For the comments on F2 drivers coming into F1. We’ve been spoilt recently by some great talent in Norris, Russell, Leclerc rising from F2, it’s not surprising that we are looking for the next thing to arrive… but I think we have a few more years to wait for that now.

Looking forward to 22 season… gonna be some interesting team battles

[William Hunt]

Would be hilarious if Albon absolutely butchers Latifi.

 

Why? He's expected to dominate Latifi (he already did in F2) but why would that be hiarious? I've always liked the Williams team and would rather see both drivers, including Latifi, performing well so I hope that Latifi can up his game next year. Latifi's a rich billionaire son like Stroll & Mazepin but it may be also be said that Nicholas is also a nice bloke who works hard and doesn't behave like a spoiled brat (looking at you Nikita). 
Now fingers crossed that Williams will build a good car next year, really want this team to improve. I was happy for Williams that both drivers managed a points finish in Hungary (and technically also at Spa but that wasn't really a race).

Edited by William Hunt, 08 September 2021 - 23:56.

[HeadFirst]

It's a shame we have the min engine limit. I'd like to have seen all new engines taped and sealed and have the FIA delegate them to relevant teams like a lottery system on Thursday before the weekend action. That way it completely removes speculation about inferior engines being given to the likes of Williams or Aston.

If they upgrade, then upgrade the entire supply.

 

I'm sure you mean Haas, Alfa and Alpha Tauri as well.

[HeadFirst]

I would have signed the torpedo instead of Albon

 

I'm glad that Albon has joined Williams, but I would have been equally pleased had it been Kvyat.

[Myrvold]

It's the "see what they do" phrase that bothers me. That's what F2 is for. While promotion to F1 need not come with a guaranty of stardom, there should be a demonstration of more than just speed, or a couple of race wins. Consistency, maturity, and the willingness to learn should also be a part of the package.

I do agree. However if Piastri wins F2, what should he do then? Search for money and do IndyCar? Drive Alpine in WEC?

[beachdrifter]

What a crappy line-up for Williams. Two billionaire-backed drivers getting the seats. Didn't Williams claim they no longer need pay drivers?

 

Just when it looked like they were about to turn the corner.

Edited by beachdrifter, 09 September 2021 - 03:48.

[LightningMcQueen]

What exactly does it mean to "upset Mercedes"? Will Mercedes now send inferior engines? What is the fear here? Mercedes do not bankroll Williams nor do they have the ability to incapacitate Williams in any way that would be legal. Contracts were signed. Mercedes will be the ones hurting by breaking them.

If Merc want a say in the affairs of Williams, then buy them out, as RB have done with Minardi.

I’m not sure they want a say in the running of Williams but they won’t want a “spy in the camp” relaying tech secrets back to RBR. they May find that Mercedes’ are less happy to supply them full stop ! Wouldn’t be surprised to see them become and RB power customer

[FirstnameLastname]

Perez was superb for Force Aston but now is fairly underwhelming in the 2nd redbull.

Different situation and we might see the Albon we *should* have seen at RB

[absinthedude]

What a crappy line-up for Williams. Two billionaire-backed drivers getting the seats. Didn't Williams claim they no longer need pay drivers?

 

Just when it looked like they were about to turn the corner.

 

Who is available, and better?

[Baddoer]

Who is available, and better?

Kvyat, Hulkenberg

[cbbcisace]

Kvyat, Hulkenberg

😵‍💫

[speedx]

ANd yet some folk keep banging on about how Hulkenberg would have been a better choice!

When did Hulk drive for a top Team?

[shure]

What exactly does it mean to "upset Mercedes"? Will Mercedes now send inferior engines? What is the fear here? Mercedes do not bankroll Williams nor do they have the ability to incapacitate Williams in any way that would be legal. Contracts were signed. Mercedes will be the ones hurting by breaking them.

 

If Merc want a say in the affairs of Williams, then buy them out, as RB have done with Minardi.

we more often than not see teams voting on issues in line with their PU supply, and if I'm not mistaken it's been commented on both here and in the press that PU manufacturers have an unhealthy amount of clout as a result.  Of course we can't see the contracts but they must be more than straightforward materials supply.

[FirstnameLastname]

Kvyat, Hulkenberg

Panis & Heidfeld

[Rodaknee]

When did Hulk drive for a top Team?

Other than his 3 races with AM (whatever) last year, Hülkenberg has not raced since 2019 in any series.  For a claimed top driver, why doesn't anyone want him.

[Clrnc]

Palou and O'Ward are on the verge of establishing very successful US racing careers. They will earn millions of dollars, meet hundreds of interesting people, compete in the world's biggest motor race and probably get to retire at the moment of their choosing. Why throw all that away for a year or two as an F1 backmarker? I mean I think they'd do it in a heartbeat in exchange for the careers Leclerc or even Norris are having, but this is Williams!

They have to start somewhere though? The exposure in f1 is different and is much harder to even get in it than drive for top teams in other series. I'm sure they wouldn't reject a move here and with rule changes next year the more they would be willing to risk it. Drive well for backmarkers and you will be in a better car in no time.

[Blundle]

Other than his 3 races with AM (whatever) last year, Hülkenberg has not raced since 2019 in any series.  For a claimed top driver, why doesn't anyone want him.

 

Because he has the old fashioned notion that he should be paid for his services. 

[Donkey]

It is a changing of the guard. Alonso , Lewis and Vettel will both be gone soon, Dan not long after that. it will be Max, Leclerc and Russel for the future you'd think.

Lando might like to have something to say about that...

[Alfisti]

Lando might like to have something to say about that...

Not sure why but I am not convinced. Let's see. Regardless, 'tis a good batch. 

[William Hunt]

I do agree. However if Piastri wins F2, what should he do then? Search for money and do IndyCar? Drive Alpine in WEC?

 

He can still drive F1 on the Playstation or on his PC I guess. It's the lack of F1 teams / seats that's causing this, not lack of talent. In the '90s Piastri would already have been signed up for F1 after his F3 title, sad.

Edited by William Hunt, 09 September 2021 - 15:00.

[Roadhouse]

Why? He's expected to dominate Latifi (he already did in F2) but why would that be hiarious? I've always liked the Williams team and would rather see both drivers, including Latifi, performing well so I hope that Latifi can up his game next year. Latifi's a rich billionaire son like Stroll & Mazepin but it may be also be said that Nicholas is also a nice bloke who works hard and doesn't behave like a spoiled brat (looking at you Nikita).
Now fingers crossed that Williams will build a good car next year, really want this team to improve. I was happy for Williams that both drivers managed a points finish in Hungary (and technically also at Spa but that wasn't really a race).

Because Russell has only been tested once against a known entity, Bottas. If Albon beats Latifi with a bigger margin than Russell did it would undermine Russell's quali performances at Williams, which is the base claim for his talents right now.
It would turn the relative driver talent ratings into an even bigger mess.

Sadly at the cost of Latifi though, who seems to be an alright lad, which definitely isn't a given with that amount of wealth.

[Francesc]

I do agree. However if Piastri wins F2, what should he do then? Search for money and do IndyCar? Drive Alpine in WEC?

 

Go to Williams as a reserve driver and in 2023 take Latifi's seat. At least I hope so.

[Little Leaf]

He can still drive F1 on the Playstation or on his PC I guess. It's the lack of F1 teams / seats that's causing this, not lack of talent. In the '90s Piastri would already have been signed up for F1 after his F3 title, sad.

Indeed, a few more cars on the grid would be very welcome.

 

I for one am pleased Albon has the drive, I don't think too many drivers in the same team as Verstappen will come off looking very good...

[Clatter]

Because Russell has only been tested once against a known entity, Bottas. If Albon beats Latifi with a bigger margin than Russell did it would undermine Russell's quali performances at Williams, which is the base claim for his talents right now.
It would turn the relative driver talent ratings into an even bigger mess.

Sadly at the cost of Latifi though, who seems to be an alright lad, which definitely isn't a given with that amount of wealth.

 

Personal I don't think it points to anything. He has the chance to prove himself at Merc and that's the only thing that matters, not how Albon stacks up to Latifi.

[BRG]

When did Hulk drive for a top Team?

He never deserved to drive for a Top Team.  Which is why none of them ever offered him one.

 

Because he has the old fashioned notion that he should be paid for his services. 

  Or to put it another way, he has priced himself out of the market.  Just like he did before, in 2011.