Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Mandatory ‘Young Drivers’ in FP1 from 2022


  • Please log in to reply
38 replies to this topic

#1 FirstnameLastname

FirstnameLastname
  • Member

  • 3,407 posts
  • Joined: April 18

Posted 14 September 2021 - 22:27

https://www.motorspo...6667469/?nrt=54

Remember when they were allowed to run a 3rd car for this purpose…. Sometimes in a different livery if I recall correctly too.

Will be good to see different names on the board, hopefully won’t be just a paydriver ticket. They should mandate that half the seat time is given to female drivers. Would be good to see folk given a proper shot to impress

Advertisement

#2 Rodaknee

Rodaknee
  • Member

  • 1,902 posts
  • Joined: June 19

Posted 15 September 2021 - 00:16

More crap from Brawn.  Since when has an hour - at most - practice been enough for a rookie driver?  Give the teams a couple of full days of practice, either after a race or as separate days.

 

Rookie drivers lacking experience is down to the FIA and FOM, it's not the fault of the teams.  Bringing this nonsense rule in next year, when the cars are completely new only adds to the stupidity.



#3 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 12,135 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 15 September 2021 - 00:20

https://www.motorspo...6667469/?nrt=54

Remember when they were allowed to run a 3rd car for this purpose…. Sometimes in a different livery if I recall correctly too.

Will be good to see different names on the board, hopefully won’t be just a paydriver ticket. They should mandate that half the seat time is given to female drivers. Would be good to see folk given a proper shot to impress

 
It was in the 2021 rules that got postponed to 2022, and have been in every iteration of the 2022 rules since. It won't be just a paydriver-gig, you still need the FP-Super License points I'd guess, I think it will stay on 2 FP's as the 2021 and all 2022 drafts have said. I am curious if they will re-define "rookie". Right now it is that they haven't done more than 2 races.

More crap from Brawn.  Since when has an hour - at most - practice been enough for a rookie driver?  Give the teams a couple of full days of practice, either after a race or as separate days.
 
Rookie drivers lacking experience is down to the FIA and FOM, it's not the fault of the teams.  Bringing this nonsense rule in next year, when the cars are completely new only adds to the stupidity.


This is old news though... It was a part of the original 2021 rules overhaul.

Edited by Myrvold, 15 September 2021 - 00:21.


#4 FLB

FLB
  • Member

  • 19,890 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 15 September 2021 - 00:30

It has nothing about giving rookies a chance, IMHO, and everything about giving the teams an opportunity to run the drivers they have under contract. Right now, Alpine is brimming with Academy drivers they can't place (Lundgaard, Piastri, Zhou...). Sauber has a problem with Pourchaire, Ferrari with Shwartzman, Illot and Armstrong, Red Bull with Lawson and Vips, etc...



#5 krapmeister

krapmeister
  • Member

  • 9,026 posts
  • Joined: August 08

Posted 15 September 2021 - 01:13

I like the idea but surely it should be far more than 2 or 3 times a season? At least every GP that F2 isn't running at should be a minimum...



#6 kumo7

kumo7
  • Member

  • 3,543 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 15 September 2021 - 02:53

Yup, I think with Sprint FP1 will be bloody important for the teams.

It could run two year old cars in another session I believe. Like 60 min training and 30 min timed laps...



#7 ARTGP

ARTGP
  • Member

  • 15,935 posts
  • Joined: March 19

Posted 15 September 2021 - 03:00

I say do it on a sprint GP weekend. Since we can't get rid of them, let's make them even more silly.



#8 Pete_f1

Pete_f1
  • Member

  • 2,281 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 15 September 2021 - 05:13

It's nice to see the reserve drivers getting a chance to drive the cars.

#9 jradicals

jradicals
  • Member

  • 49 posts
  • Joined: May 17

Posted 15 September 2021 - 06:51

I'm wondering if the reserve driver slot in each team will be allocated a set of PU components separate from the main driver lineup....it could stir up some trouble if a reserve driver bins the car, resulting in a grid penalty for the race driver needing to take new components.

It's also going to be interesting seeing the bigger teams who don't have a clear number one driver have to choose who gives up their car.



#10 lustigson

lustigson
  • Member

  • 5,699 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 15 September 2021 - 08:25

Run junior drivers in the sprint races.



#11 Risil

Risil
  • Administrator

  • 44,535 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 15 September 2021 - 08:27

Based on the article's quotes the most affected teams, McLaren and Aston Martin, don't sound too angry. Sounds like the teams get to choose which races they run their "rookies" at as well, which makes a lot of sense. I'm sure McLaren will try and parachute in Pato O'Ward at some point.

 

I wonder if this is going to conflict with the FIA's strict superlicence rules. Plus, Ross Brawn's quotes suggest they haven't yet nailed down the definition of a "rookie" or "young driver" for these purposes. So there's still more of this story to come out!



#12 CoolBreeze

CoolBreeze
  • Member

  • 2,006 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 15 September 2021 - 08:35

https://www.motorspo...6667469/?nrt=54

Remember when they were allowed to run a 3rd car for this purpose…. Sometimes in a different livery if I recall correctly too.

Will be good to see different names on the board, hopefully won’t be just a paydriver ticket. They should mandate that half the seat time is given to female drivers. Would be good to see folk given a proper shot to impress

 

for what exactly?
 



#13 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • RC Forum Host

  • 32,202 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 15 September 2021 - 09:03

Don’t a lot of teams do this now anyway?

#14 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 21,899 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 15 September 2021 - 10:32

I wonder if this is going to conflict with the FIA's strict superlicence rules. Plus, Ross Brawn's quotes suggest they haven't yet nailed down the definition of a "rookie" or "young driver" for these purposes. So there's still more of this story to come out!

Doesn't it say that a SL will be necessary?  That will surely cut down the number of eligible drivers. Some teams may struggle to find someone. Williams have run Nissany  n the past but he wouldn't be eligible?  Nor would younger Indycar drivers.  They might have to raid Formula E.



#15 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 12,135 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 15 September 2021 - 10:36

Doesn't it say that a SL will be necessary?  That will surely cut down the number of eligible drivers. Some teams may struggle to find someone. Williams have run Nissany  n the past but he wouldn't be eligible?  Nor would younger Indycar drivers.  They might have to raid Formula E.

I would imagine that the SL needed is the same that's needed today. The FP-only SL with lower SL-points requirements.



#16 Anderis

Anderis
  • Member

  • 5,578 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 15 September 2021 - 11:06

I believe it will be beneficial to give non-regular drivers more mileage in F1 cars. It will lessen the experience gap with real F1 cars between regular drivers and test drivers, should make for a smoother rookie seasons for those drivers and the teams will have more options to choose from among drivers who know what it is like to drive F1 cars. Also more opportunities for young drivers to impress with their speed and work ethics. It should benefit everyone, both teams and young drivers, in the long run.

 

How you go about it is a matter for discussion. FP1 could work but this needs to be a regular feature, at least 8-10 FP1s per year, not just 2 or 3. But the problem with FP1 is that the young drivers will need to be cautious not to damage the car for the rest of the weekend, they wont be able to push to find their limits which I think is the best learning experience. I've always thought it's an interesting idea to make a 2 car test session on Monday after the GP weekend wherever it's possible and where at least one car has to be given to a young driver. To prevent work overload for team members, Friday running could be dropped instead. But looking at the experiments with sprint races etc. it's probably not the way F1 authorities will want to follow.



#17 Peat

Peat
  • Member

  • 6,847 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 15 September 2021 - 11:17

So, the big teams can run their development drivers and the smaller ones can fluff up their revenue stream a bit by running Deledda's and Nissany's. Meh. 

Having them drive the Sprint races - now there's an idea i can get behind. 



#18 noikeee

noikeee
  • Member

  • 20,685 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 15 September 2021 - 11:42

Too many FP1s will mean teams will have to designate #1 drivers who get to run in FP, and #2s who don't and are disadvantaged for the race.

I like the concept but we need to think of all the side effects.

#19 Ruusperi

Ruusperi
  • Member

  • 1,032 posts
  • Joined: July 15

Posted 15 September 2021 - 11:59

Are there enough drivers with required Super License points who are not racing elsewhere? Or can a driver do FP1 without 40 super license points?



Advertisement

#20 TomNokoe

TomNokoe
  • Member

  • 28,609 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 15 September 2021 - 12:20

Practice sessions are too important and too short to deprive the main drivers of track time.

I would prefer an extension to FP1 or a standalone session where these drivers are mandated to run all at once, rather than the odd sporadic appearance where one team run them at one event, another team choose another event, and so on.

For example, we could have five events a season where there is a 45 minute "Rookie Warmup" before FP1. One driver per team. 10 cars on track. One set of tyres each.

Edited by TomNokoe, 15 September 2021 - 12:24.


#21 keeppari

keeppari
  • Member

  • 290 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 15 September 2021 - 12:58

for what exactly?

Equal opportunity. I think they should go a step further and mandate that one of the regular drivers in a team should be a (self-)identified member of a repressed minority.

#22 FirstnameLastname

FirstnameLastname
  • Member

  • 3,407 posts
  • Joined: April 18

Posted 15 September 2021 - 13:01

Practice sessions are too important and too short to deprive the main drivers of track time.

I would prefer an extension to FP1 or a standalone session where these drivers are mandated to run all at once, rather than the odd sporadic appearance where one team run them at one event, another team choose another event, and so on.

For example, we could have five events a season where there is a 45 minute "Rookie Warmup" before FP1. One driver per team. 10 cars on track. One set of tyres each.


Make the rookie drivers have to do Q1 in place of the driver in each teams who is furthest up the standings

#23 FirstnameLastname

FirstnameLastname
  • Member

  • 3,407 posts
  • Joined: April 18

Posted 15 September 2021 - 13:02

for what exactly?


Summut to gawp at - phwooooaar

#24 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 40,303 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 15 September 2021 - 13:11

https://www.motorspo...6667469/?nrt=54

Remember when they were allowed to run a 3rd car for this purpose…. Sometimes in a different livery if I recall correctly too.

Will be good to see different names on the board, hopefully won’t be just a paydriver ticket. They should mandate that half the seat time is given to female drivers. Would be good to see folk given a proper shot to impress

I'd love to see more women make it to F1, but it should only be on merit, not just because they are female.

#25 ForzaFormula

ForzaFormula
  • Member

  • 1,881 posts
  • Joined: April 17

Posted 15 September 2021 - 13:16

More crap from Brawn.  Since when has an hour - at most - practice been enough for a rookie driver?  Give the teams a couple of full days of practice, either after a race or as separate days.

 

Rookie drivers lacking experience is down to the FIA and FOM, it's not the fault of the teams.  Bringing this nonsense rule in next year, when the cars are completely new only adds to the stupidity.

 

At least it's something, those 1 hour practice sessions can help a potential rookie in F1 greatly, just a bit of time in the car and understanding of how everything works on track and working with the team can help them develop allot with a few free practice sessions heading into a potential debut season.

 

The budget cap and other restrictions they have put in mean they won't do it any other way I guess.



#26 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 12,135 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 15 September 2021 - 13:37

Are there enough drivers with required Super License points who are not racing elsewhere? Or can a driver do FP1 without 40 super license points?

 

25 Super License points or 6 races completed in F2 for the first Free Practice Super License.

For every applications for a Free Practice License, the driver need to have 25 points or having completed a full season of Formula 2.



#27 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 12,135 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 15 September 2021 - 13:38

At least it's something, those 1 hour practice sessions can help a potential rookie in F1 greatly, just a bit of time in the car and understanding of how everything works on track and working with the team can help them develop allot with a few free practice sessions heading into a potential debut season.

 

Not to mention it will be interesting to see a rookie/"young driver" in a Mercedes and Red Bull :)



#28 ARTGP

ARTGP
  • Member

  • 15,935 posts
  • Joined: March 19

Posted 15 September 2021 - 13:46

Run junior drivers in the sprint races.

 

This would actually be brilliant.



#29 Anderis

Anderis
  • Member

  • 5,578 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 15 September 2021 - 13:46

Too many FP1s will mean teams will have to designate #1 drivers who get to run in FP, and #2s who don't and are disadvantaged for the race.

I like the concept but we need to think of all the side effects.

It's very easy to make it fair to both drivers within one team with a rule that each regular driver has to give up his seat roughly the same number of times across the season.

 

Or make a FP session for young drivers only in which regular drivers can't participate.


Edited by Anderis, 15 September 2021 - 13:48.


#30 Ruusperi

Ruusperi
  • Member

  • 1,032 posts
  • Joined: July 15

Posted 15 September 2021 - 14:17

Run junior drivers in the sprint races.

I don't like the idea of 20 junior mazepins jumping to F1 cars at Spa and approaching Raidillon without practice. And if they allow practice, why not create a new feeder series like F1½



#31 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 21,899 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 15 September 2021 - 14:37

Practice sessions are too important and too short to deprive the main drivers of track time.

Most race series only get about an hour of practice.  Of course, they aren't the best drivers in the world who apparently need far more time



#32 JeePee

JeePee
  • Member

  • 4,645 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 15 September 2021 - 14:40

Run junior drivers in the sprint races.

And still let it count for the official grid positions  :rotfl:



#33 sgtkate

sgtkate
  • Member

  • 2,316 posts
  • Joined: May 17

Posted 15 September 2021 - 14:51

I'd love to see more women make it to F1, but it should only be on merit, not just because they are female.

Yes, agreed, but the problem remains that kids are inspired by role models they see. And currently girls growing up have no female role models in F1. The W Series helps make female racing drivers more visible but having women actually driving F1 cars would have a knock on improvement in the number of girls taking up karting for example and in a decade we might see the women coming through on merit entirely without needing the leg up. This is about the future drivers rather than supporting the women in the sport now.



#34 Spillage

Spillage
  • Member

  • 8,222 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 15 September 2021 - 14:57

Doesn't sound like sprint races are coming in permanently then, does it? I don't mind this change though.



#35 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • RC Forum Host

  • 32,202 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 15 September 2021 - 15:06

I'd love to see more women make it to F1, but it should only be on merit, not just because they are female.


I reckon getting the W Series champion and runner up a Friday FP or two wouldn’t be unreasonable.

#36 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 40,303 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 15 September 2021 - 15:17

I reckon getting the W Series champion and runner up a Friday FP or two wouldn’t be unreasonable.

That would make more sense. Maybe even the young drivers tests. I've not been following the W series, but are any of them looking like making the jump to F2/3?

#37 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 21,899 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 15 September 2021 - 15:20

I reckon getting the W Series champion and runner up a Friday FP or two wouldn’t be unreasonable.

Yes.  What we don't need is drivers like Carmen Jorda.  At least some level of merit is required to be a role model.



#38 William Hunt

William Hunt
  • Member

  • 7,541 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 15 September 2021 - 16:00

More crap from Brawn.  Since when has an hour - at most - practice been enough for a rookie driver?  Give the teams a couple of full days of practice, either after a race or as separate days.

 

Rookie drivers lacking experience is down to the FIA and FOM, it's not the fault of the teams.  Bringing this nonsense rule in next year, when the cars are completely new only adds to the stupidity.

 

It would not be stupid if they would force teams to do it every GP weekend (except maybe the sprint race weekends). Having teams run fulls days outside F1 will only cost the teams more money but having them run on Friday could even bring the teams money (if they had paying junior drivers, off course I don't prefer pay drivers on Friday).

It would indeed be crap if it was just for 2 to 4 Fridays (but still better than nothing for rookies) because one full day of running gives them more track time then. So let's hope it will be enforced for every race or almost every race.


Edited by William Hunt, 15 September 2021 - 16:12.


#39 Roadhouse

Roadhouse
  • Member

  • 1,362 posts
  • Joined: August 16

Posted 15 September 2021 - 16:10

I don't like the idea of 20 junior mazepins jumping to F1 cars at Spa and approaching Raidillon without practice. And if they allow practice, why not create a new feeder series like F1½

 

I thought that's what the teams under RB and Mercedes were for?