129 replies to this topic

[Macca]

With only one day to go ( not counting the cricket match and Spitfire flypast this afternoon ), is anybody going?

I went in to see a bit of testing on the last couple of Thursdays, where noise restrictions require silencers - pity Goodwood can’t get some relaxations, as some cars have to be taken 200 miles to find a circuit where they can be run with open exhausts. Jim Stokes Workshops in Waterlooville had to take an Alfa 158 to Lincolnshire…

The entry list is available now:
https://www.goodwood...ist-2021-v2.pdf

and the races look much as usual, perhaps a bit thin due to the current difficulties for potential overseas entrants.

With BRM being the featured marque, wouldn’t it be serendipitous for Vol 4 to be published this weekend? (ducks for cover)

Paul M

[Allen Brown]

There is a really good book being launched this weekend, and it definitely has some BRM content:

 

Mike Spence: Out of the Shadows

[Richard Jenkins]

I'm launching the book and hope to have at least one ex BRM driver at the stand at some point. At Hortons stand 45 in the new vendor area. I'll be around all three days.

[ensign14]

Will be going tomorrow, if I wake early enough...

[Jack-the-Lad]

Can someone post a link to the live stream?

Many thanks...

[SJ Lambert]

https://www.goodwood...al-live-stream/


Hopefully that will work in 5 hours

[cooper997]

Sixty years of the Mini Cooper is also being celebrated - released September 20, 1961.

 

Chris Dawson, formerly of John Cooper Garages (Ferring and East Preston) has popped these photos of Hollyfield Rd, Surbiton spirited off to Goodwood on social media. Mike and Charlie Cooper presence included - Charlie being his son and great grandson of the Cooper Garage founder. .

https://www.facebook...015470535260882

 

Love it!

 

 

Stephen

[P.Dron]

I have had the live stream on for only a few minutes. Already, I have heard "pateeena" twice. Ugh! But there should be some good action coming up.

[Charlieman]

A couple of Kiwis fettling an original Cooper FJ, in the same hands from new, assured me that "pateeena" is the correct description for a down under car which hasn't been mucked about.

[RCH]

I'll be going on Sunday, first time in a number of years. Had my usual row with someone on the Goodwood team when booking my ticket, is it just me or do they deliberately set out to make simple things difficult? Bit of a love hate relationship really, back in the day when I had trade stands at the Festival whilst I usually came out with a reasonable profit there were always a few niggles when the organisers, seemingly always intent on re-inventing the wheel, made life difficult. Oh well I'm sure I'll enjoy it at the end of the day.

[GazChed]

The St Marys Trophy pre 1960 saloons have just taken to the track. After the debacle of two years ago, I hope they have exchanged their roller rockers for standard ones !

[RCH]

Yet again Jaguars humbled by cars that would have been many seconds away back in the day. How can this reflect pre 1960 racing? Presumably the sight of an A40, which bears little resemblance to how it would have been, beating much bigger cars is designed to amuse the masses. Sorry I have the same rant every year.

[Doug Nye]

Indeed you do...    

 

DCN

[RCH]

Indeed you do...    

 

DCN

But is anyone listening?

[Red Socks]

But is anyone listening?

Rod, Goodwood Revival and Disneyland share exactly the same relationship to reality and the past.....

[BRG]

Rod, Goodwood Revival and Disneyland share exactly the same relationship to reality and the past.....

Can you imagine the reaction if the Revival was suddenly re-worked to be an ACCURATE evocation of 1950/62s racing?  Dozens of poorly prepared, scruffy, unreliable cars trundling round off the pace.  Catering consisting of stewed tea and cheese sandwiches made with sliced white bread and margarine.  Latrines instead of toilets.  Mud everywhere.  Loads of blokes in demob suits and raincoats, any women in drab overcoats and head-scarves. Not one single person wearing full-dress Admiral of the Fleet's uniform with medals..

[john aston]

Goodwood is a hoot , and I enjoy it hugely . I am not at the Revival but will be at the Members' . It's an homage to a half imagined past , not a time warp. I can do without the Hoorays in fancy dress but I don't care if this parallel universe has its unicorns in the form of ballistic A 40s or supersonic Cobras . I am old enough to have seen racing in the Sixties and there was some awful old tut on track , thin grids and awful driving - it wasn't always Jimmie three wheeling a Cortina ..

 

The food was awful , the safety risible  and car prep often sketchy .  

 

If I were true to my period self , I'd sport cheap Levi copy jeans ,  frayed shirt , parka and scuffed  desert boots, I'd have had  no bath since Wednesday  and I'd appear in a cloud of   Embassy Tipped  smoke  . If I replicated that look  now  I'd be asked to leave by His  Grace tout suite,, despite being a more accurate evocation of 1966 than anyone else . And  I wouldn't blame him one little bit. 

 

To carp at historical inaccuracies is like going to a Bootleg Beatles gig and moaning that the sound is  too good .

Edited by john aston, 17 September 2021 - 17:06.

[Doug Nye]

I am missing Revival this year, perforce (pandemic reasons, and -------- off about it) but we never set out to reproduce a reality which was in period often disappointing, and which today would spoil older generations' nostalgia, and probably undermine younger generations' assumptions...

 

The Goodwood Revival is indeed nostalgia-based theatre - planting enduring pictures in receptive minds and memories. Over the years since 1998 most attendees seem to have quite enjoyed it.

 

One of Jenks's kitchen-wall scribblings in his little lodge house in Crondall read "Aah nostalgia. The Real Thing".

 

We had that in mind when Revival was created.  

 

Here of all places I hope this might be appreciated.

 

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 17 September 2021 - 17:35.

[pete53]

I am missing Revival this year, perforce (pandemic reasons, and -------- off about it) but we never set out to reproduce a reality which was in period often disappointing, and which today would spoil older generations' nostalgia, and probably undermine younger generations' assumptions...

 

The Goodwood Revival is indeed nostalgia-based theatre - planting enduring pictures in receptive minds and memories. Over the years since 1998 most attendees seem to have quite enjoyed it.

 

One of Jenks's kitchen-wall scribblings in his little lodge house in Crondall read "Aah nostalgia. The Real Thing".

 

We had that in mind when Revival was created.  

 

Here of all places I hope this might be appreciated.

 

DCN

A wonderful event. Goodwood Revival weekend of 1998, drenched in sunshine,  remains one of the best weekends of my life! 

[RCH]

OK guys, yes I take your point, I am delighted to see lots of E Types doing well, although the TT race seems to be lacking Astons and Bizarrinis, Maseratis and Ferraris these days and the real Lightweight E Types aren't there any more but generally the cars in any race are doing roughly what they could have done in period if rather faster, smarter and more reliably. It's just the St Mary's Trophy that winds me up. A40s and a Westminster doing what they never could have in period. Oh well, I live in hope.

[Rob Miller]

In the practice session for the Glover Trophy race for 1961 to 1965 Formula One cars I'm sure I saw a front engined car leave the paddock. Any idea if this happened and what it could be?

Rob

[sabrejet]

Just back from a wonderful day. There was some seriously great driving, a few offs (thankfully no injuries) and as ever, new things to look at. It never ceases to amaze me how the Goodwood team continues to improve on perfection and even the weather played ball!

 

Oh and five BRM V16s.

[Tim Murray]

In the practice session for the Glover Trophy race for 1961 to 1965 Formula One cars I'm sure I saw a front engined car leave the paddock. Any idea if this happened and what it could be?

Rob

My first thought was the Ferguson, but it’s not on the official timing sheet:

https://www.tsl-timi...13765qu1glv.pdf

[Macca]

Probably a Formula Junior practising ‘out of session’ to check repairs.

Paul M

[GazChed]

The Glover Trophy is the only single seater race for rear engined cars at Goodwood this season. The Richmond Trophy for pre 1961 Grand Prix cars, the Chichester Cup for Formula Junior and the Festival Of Britain Trophy for pre 1952 single seaters are all for front engined cars and all had a car which failed to set a time in their official practise, Andrew Haddon (Scarab), Richmond Trophy, Kevin Musson (Dolphin), Chichester Cup and Alex Simpson (Alvis Goodwin Special), Festival Of Britain Trophy (who spun off on his first qualifying lap). As Macca says, it's highly likely to be one of those going out to complete two laps to qualify 'out of session' and start from the back of the grid.

[pete53]

OK guys, yes I take your point, I am delighted to see lots of E Types doing well, although the TT race seems to be lacking Astons and Bizarrinis, Maseratis and Ferraris these days and the real Lightweight E Types aren't there any more but generally the cars in any race are doing roughly what they could have done in period if rather faster, smarter and more reliably. It's just the St Mary's Trophy that winds me up. A40s and a Westminster doing what they never could have in period. Oh well, I live in hope.

I think as the years go by it will become harder and harder to gather genuinely representative fields of runners. As cars age there will probably be fewer and fewer owners prepared to risk them. It was noted last year that the TT lacked any Ferraris. It is the same this year, although several 250SWB models were participating in the Stirling Moss Memorial Race. How much this matters will, I imagine, depend upon ones own knowledge and memory of racing in the 50s and 60s, and whether you witnessed racing first hand, and value authenticity as much, if not more than, spectacle and entertainment. 

[milestone 11]

In the practice session for the Glover Trophy race for 1961 to 1965 Formula One cars I'm sure I saw a front engined car leave the paddock. Any idea if this happened and what it could be?
Rob

Scarab I imagine.
 

 
Edit,
 

My first thought was the Ferguson, but it’s not on the official timing sheet:

Sorry Tim, I only saw your post after posting, the Ferguson was out as well. Both are listed in the Richmond Trophy PDF, they were out together with the Glover cars because of delays due to red flags.

Edited by milestone 11, 17 September 2021 - 22:20.

[Rob Miller]

Thanks, it must have been a FJ.

The Pole time for the Lola-Ford mk2 FJ would put it on Pole in the 1960 F1 race and ninth on the grid in the 1965 F1 race. The Lola is a great little car but not that great.

Rob

[GazChed]

A couple of years ago Autosport carried a feature comparing the lap times of cars that raced at Goodwood in period and in the modern Revival and Members meetings. Formula Junior in modern historic racing, possibly due to the very competitive nature of the large fields and large number of races each season, has seen the fastest lap times at Goodwood plummet from 1:34.4 set by Jim Clark and Trevor Taylor in 1960 (front engined Formula Juniors rarely featured after 1960) to 1:27.5 set in qualifying today. By comparison the best front engined Grand Prix lap time was Mike Hawthorn's 1:28.8 set in the 1958 Glover Trophy was improved by 'only' just over a second to 1:27.7 in today's Richmond Trophy qualifying.

[cooper997]

How good is this! Share the BRM love...

 

From Goodwood Revival's own FB page

 

https://www.facebook...?type=3

attribution: Goodwood Revival FB page

 

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

Back in 2009 Stirling Moss modelled with this fiesta yellow Austin Cooper 997 for C&SC mag. I'm sure even Sir Stirling would approve that his modelling assignment has been suitably outshined by this young lady.

 

Taken in front of Cooper's Garage, Surbiton (Goodwood division).as part of the 60th anniversary that falls on Monday.

 

Attribution: Claire Bodie social media

 

 

Stephen

[GazChed]

Just had a look at yesterday's live stream and can confirm it was Kevin Musson and his pale green Dolphin Formula Junior qualifying out of session.

Edited by GazChed, 18 September 2021 - 05:49.

[Lola5000]

Hi all, is the #6 E-type in the TT Huff/Meins the ex John Lewis car often driven years ago by Roger Mac?

[ensign14]

OK guys, yes I take your point, I am delighted to see lots of E Types doing well, although the TT race seems to be lacking Astons and Bizarrinis, Maseratis and Ferraris these days and the real Lightweight E Types aren't there any more

Remember this year the entry is unusually domestic...

[Derwent Motorsport]

OK guys, yes I take your point, I am delighted to see lots of E Types doing well, although the TT race seems to be lacking Astons and Bizarrinis, Maseratis and Ferraris these days and the real Lightweight E Types aren't there any more but generally the cars in any race are doing roughly what they could have done in period if rather faster, smarter and more reliably. It's just the St Mary's Trophy that winds me up. A40s and a Westminster doing what they never could have in period. Oh well, I live in hope.

As a kid I seem to remember in one of the saloon car races Ken Wharton doing well against the Jags in a Westminster .

[RCH]

As a kid I seem to remember in one of the saloon car races Ken Wharton doing well against the Jags in a Westminster .

 

Yes, Silverstone 1957, but that was against Mk.VIIs, lumbering beasts. There were a couple of 2.4 Mark 1s but a good Zephyr or Westminster could handle these. It was the not yet introduced 3.4 which was to show everyone the way home. Westminsters were actually rather better cars than they are given credit for.

[dgs]

Yes, Silverstone 1957, but that was against Mk.VIIs, lumbering beasts. There were a couple of 2.4 Mark 1s but a good Zephyr or Westminster could handle these. It was the not yet introduced 3.4 which was to show everyone the way home. Westminsters were actually rather better cars than they are given credit for.

I think you mean 1956 International Trophy meeting (5th May). Ken Wharton killed 12th January 1957 in a sports racing Ferrari in New Zealand

[ensign14]

I am missing Revival this year, perforce (pandemic reasons, and -------- off about it)
 

 

There was at least some Nye presence...

 

[RCH]

I think you mean 1956 International Trophy meeting (5th May). Ken Wharton killed 12th January 1957 in a sports racing Ferrari in New Zealand

Ouch, what a dreadful mistake to make. My father knew Ken through their Birmingham businesses. I remember Dad was very upset when he heard the news.

[Odseybod]

According to my shaky memory, confirmed by the infallible Wiki, Jack Sears won the inaugural British Saloon Car Championship in 1958 in an Austin Westminster.

[Doug Nye]

Now here's a strange thing.

 

I was out trundling about in my Proteus Jaguar C in today's autumn sunshine  - compensating I guess for missing Revival.  I noticed the little saloon car ahead of me (I can never identify them these days), had familiar letters on its number plate.  Hmmm.  We came up to some traffic lights, and the equally anonymous little box behind me stopped some yards back, for some reason, and I was able to read its number plate in my mirror.  

 

To my surprise its number plate included the same familiar letters...so there I was, with one plate ahead, and one behind, simultaneously.

 

What were they, at around the time of the Moss Tribute at Goodwood?

 

Those of victorious genuine C-Type driver - 'SM'.

 

Coincidences do happen.

 

DCN

[ensign14]

There was one on track too...

 

 

...on this desirable machine.

 

[Lee Nicolle]

A couple of years ago Autosport carried a feature comparing the lap times of cars that raced at Goodwood in period and in the modern Revival and Members meetings. Formula Junior in modern historic racing, possibly due to the very competitive nature of the large fields and large number of races each season, has seen the fastest lap times at Goodwood plummet from 1:34.4 set by Jim Clark and Trevor Taylor in 1960 (front engined Formula Juniors rarely featured after 1960) to 1:27.5 set in qualifying today. By comparison the best front engined Grand Prix lap time was Mike Hawthorn's 1:28.8 set in the 1958 Glover Trophy was improved by 'only' just over a second to 1:27.7 in today's Richmond Trophy qualifying.

ALL race tracks have improved over the decades. Having seen old footage and current the track is 5 sec a lap faster and the cars wioth all the modern interpretation parts too should be another 5 sec faster. So they are going slow!!

The place is lovely and so much better. Though things like the pitlane and bays would be annoying.

As for the cars,, without going out of your way to 'modify' things pistons are better, use modern rods for durability, modern valve springs and retainers plus modern ignition components. So much over technical cars had what is now laughable components. A modern electronic  dissy, wires and plugs would have those BRMs run right! Plus modern oils to keep them alive.

Tyres are better, shocks are better, brake material is better etc etc. 

[Lee Nicolle]

Yes, Silverstone 1957, but that was against Mk.VIIs, lumbering beasts. There were a couple of 2.4 Mark 1s but a good Zephyr or Westminster could handle these. It was the not yet introduced 3.4 which was to show everyone the way home. Westminsters were actually rather better cars than they are given credit for.

Austin A90s, 95s and 105s were quite respectable though heavy motorcars. Similar mechanicals to 3 litre Healeys in a stiffer chassis that weighs 500+ lbs more!!. A friend had one with a few mods and it was no slouch. Though engineered in England!!

The Mk2 Zephyrs too had some good points. Though here in Oz the standard engine in them now are 302 windsors!

I once knew a A90 that was super quick,,, LS7 big block Chev helped there

[Lee Nicolle]

I watched Lord Marches tribute to Sir Stirling on the live stream last night. He did a very nice job of it.

[BRG]

Somebody please re-assure me that the Sherman tank isn't damaging the track surface....

[P.Dron]

I watched Lord Marches tribute to Sir Stirling on the live stream last night. He did a very nice job of it.

 

I think you mean the Dook of Richmond etc, rather than the Lord of the Marches.

[Sterzo]

But is anyone listening?

Belatedly, but yes, I am. Maybe I should be grateful for the survival of so many cars, and the amount of racing there is for them. But I've never seen the point of acquiring an historic artefact and modernising it so it's no longer correct. Bet you could improve Michelangelo's David with a bigger willie made out of plastic.

[Doug Nye]

Had the technology been available to car constructors in period, I am confident that both they - and wee David - might well have gone for it...  

 

DCN

[Odseybod]

But that would no doubt have got the fig-leaf brigade all agitata, resulting in a major cover-up, and we'd never have known what, if anything, he had to offer. 

 

Unrelated to gents' dangly bits (well, not directly), I thought this year's Revival was one of the better ones, despite fewer overseas contributions for Covid reasons. I'm afraid all the weekend tasks were out-voted by the Livestream, which was pretty satisfying and avoided the annoyances we'll no doubt be grumbling about when the Ch 4 (?) highlights programme appears. As someone remarked, it did feel rather like the last days of summer, so was unexpectedly poignant, as was the SCM tribute - and my ears are sorry to have missed the BRM parades in the flesh, though there did seem to be one less V16 on each of the three days, which I suppose was quite prototypical. 

 

Well done, Goodwood.