63 replies to this topic

[alframsey]

I am glad to see Martin has returned (somewhat) to the fray because, while his tenure as McLaren TP left a lot to be desired he definitely has(d?) something to offer to a team.

 

Maybe absence really does make the heart grow fonder.

[Sam1]

Well I expect him to be TP anytime soon as I also fear he has had a hand in the 2022 car maybe that's why otmar left he was a flop at his last team and if he really has been involved in the 2022 car I fully expect it to be a dud if not then I fully expect them to be nowhere next year

[Risil]

Do we know Whitmarsh is going to be team principal?

[Sam1]

It was well rumoured at the time Martin took up his role within the company that it was away of him getting in the door to be TP it was also well known otmars time was numbered hence the alpine rumour

Edited by Sam1, 05 January 2022 - 17:03.

[alframsey]

Well I expect him to be TP anytime soon as I also fear he has had a hand in the 2022 car maybe that's why otmar left he was a flop at his last team and if he really has been involved in the 2022 car I fully expect it to be a dud if not then I fully expect them to be nowhere next year

Was he a flop at McLaren though? He didn't win a title but then that only happened once in the last 20 years for the team, he was the last TP to have anything close to success for McLAren, in a title battle for most of every season he was in charge (bar 09 and 13) and they won multiple races.

 

I don't think he is the best TP ever but he is far from the worst. He has had a lot of success in the sport.

[pup]

Well I expect him to be TP anytime soon as I also fear he has had a hand in the 2022 car maybe that's why otmar left he was a flop at his last team and if he really has been involved in the 2022 car I fully expect it to be a dud if not then I fully expect them to be nowhere next year

My assumption has been that by using the Merc derived chassis the past few seasons, they’ve had two years to spend on a 22 car. Not necessarily their own 22 car, of course, but someone’s.

[MKSixer]

Was he a flop at McLaren though? He didn't win a title but then that only happened once in the last 20 years for the team, he was the last TP to have anything close to success for McLAren, in a title battle for most of every season he was in charge (bar 09 and 13) and they won multiple races.

 

I don't think he is the best TP ever but he is far from the worst. He has had a lot of success in the sport.

I think he was a flop because the biggest part of leadership is appropriate resource and human cap utilization and he failed miserable in backing BUT over HAM.  

[SpatialTech]

Was he a flop at McLaren though? He didn't win a title but then that only happened once in the last 20 years for the team, he was the last TP to have anything close to success for McLAren, in a title battle for most of every season he was in charge (bar 09 and 13) and they won multiple races.
 
I don't think he is the best TP ever but he is far from the worst. He has had a lot of success in the sport.

I think compared to RD before him, you’d have to deduce that. Nice bloke, from what I am told, but not the greatest TP in my opinion; completely mismanaged the situation vis-a-vis Button and 44 too. It started to look too obvious, imo, that he favoured Button. They didn’t win anything with him, nor since and he oversaw what was effectively the end of the MCL/44 relationship.

If I was an AMR fan, I’d not be overjoyed seeing him return to F1 in my team.

[alframsey]

I think compared to RD before him, you’d have to deduce that. Nice bloke, from what I am told, but not the greatest TP in my opinion; completely mismanaged the situation vis-a-vis Button and 44 too. It started to look too obvious, imo, that he favoured Button. They didn’t win anything with him, nor since and he oversaw what was effectively the end of the MCL/44 relationship.

If I was an AMR fan, I’d not be overjoyed seeing him return to F1 in my team.

That was his greatest failing imo and true, in comparison to RD, he was a flop. He made some poor choices when it came to recruitment too, Sam Michaels I seem to remember being a rather significant issue around track side operations changes and subsequent problems in 2012, a season they probably had the car best positioned to challenge RBR in that era.

 

I think he was okay though, not great by any means but he did have some relative success when compared with the return of Ron and then the whole honda thing

Edited by alframsey, 05 January 2022 - 23:04.

[jjcale]

Cant see anybody being dumb enough to put Whitmarsh into a genuine TP role ... but some sort of glad-handing, quasi-diplomat, (fake) Mr Nice Guy,  "above it all" type of job would probably suit him (even if he gets the TP title he will not have the power).

 

.... he's possibly an even better number 2 than Otmar ... Otmar was really a number 1 as VJ was TP in name only. While Stroll is clearly the big boss and doesnt even need a title command respect - and fear. ... so Martin will be a better foil for Stroll than Otmar as Otmar has too much of the bully in him as well to co-exist in the same space with Stroll.

 

As much as I dislike Stroll and Whitmarsh (... and as much as I like Otmar) ... probably a good set of developments for all concerned - just in terms of interpersonal dynamics.

 

And as I've said before ... Papa Stroll aint no fool.... whether he can have ultimate success in F1 is not clear as the budgets are so big even he will have trouble raising that that kind of money year after year after year ... but he always improves anything he is associated with - at least in terms of the value/price.

Edited by jjcale, 05 January 2022 - 20:45.

[SpatialTech]

That was his greatest failing imo and true, in comparison to RD, he was a flop. He made some poor choices when it came to recruitment too, Sam Michaels I seem to remembering being a rather significant issue around track side operations changes and subsequent problems in 2012, a season they probably had the car best positioned to challenge RBR in that era.
 
I think he was okay though, not great by any means but he did have some relative success when compared with the return of Ron and then the whole honda thing

I met Sam Michael at Goodwood one year, as a guest of Mclaren. I’d actually forgotten about him, which will tell you just how memorable he was. I actually say to this day that they cost Hamilton his 2nd title, as the MP4/27 was a good car. Better reliability would have seen him at worst challenge until the end, and I think Singapore was the straw that broke his back, and persuaded him to join AMG.

[FirstnameLastname]

Wonder if Otmar will try and pinch Lance for Alpine - after waxing lyrical about how amazing he was and what a superb raw talent they had discovered.

[jjcale]

Wonder if Otmar will try and pinch Lance for Alpine - after waxing lyrical about how amazing he was and what a superb raw talent they had discovered.

 

 

Early post of the year contender ...

[rbartlett]

I was a regular visitor to 'the factory' from 1998 to 2015 as a contractor. Otmar wasn't universally appreciated and a few on the quiet voiced negative opinion on his abilities. During my time the one who impressed me the most was Simon Roberts. He made a massive difference to the team during his secondment

I personally feel he would be the ideal person with Martin above him in overall charge .