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Things we miss about 'old' Formula One


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#351 Izzyeviel

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Posted 30 November 2021 - 12:38

He didn't make mistakes. He just made predictions that immediately turned out to be wrong. 

 

Another thing I miss about ye olde times... a commentator could make a mistake and not get whole threads dedicated to how awful they are.



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#352 absinthedude

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Posted 30 November 2021 - 12:42

I was watching a bit of the F1TV archive over the summer and what Martin Brindle said about the A1 Ring in the late 90s sort of still rings true. Words to the effect of "Very simple circuit, not much going on, but you rarely get a dull race here". And that's what you'd say today!

Hungaroring is the one circuit that was unequivocally improved by DRS.

 

Hungaroring has also been helped by the extension of the start/finish straight and tightening of the first corner. It's got a long enough straight for a faster car to overtake at the reprofiled first turn. The rest of the track remains quite technical and, I am told, fun to drive. 

 

I agree about the A1-Ring/Red Bull Ring. It's very simple. No really challenging corners. But it does have decent straights which leads to some decent racing. 



#353 Hellenic tifosi

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Posted 30 November 2021 - 12:45

Hungaroring has also been helped by the extension of the start/finish straight and tightening of the first corner. It's got a long enough straight for a faster car to overtake at the reprofiled first turn. The rest of the track remains quite technical and, I am told, fun to drive. 

 

I agree about the A1-Ring/Red Bull Ring. It's very simple. No really challenging corners. But it does have decent straights which leads to some decent racing. 

 

Exactly, RedBull Ring is an older version of Bahrain, albeit with much more beautiful surrounding area.



#354 azza200

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Posted 30 November 2021 - 13:18

I know that Silverstone has changed down the years but I feel that they ruined it with the new 'complex' that they built. Not just from a racing perspective, but the natural 'bowl' created by the banking on the outside of Club for fans to watch from was great - probably the only place where you could get a decent view with a GA ticket. I know that there are other places where you can stand in awe at the cars flashing past (e.g. entry to Maggotts) but you could see what was happening more at Club. There really was a party atmosphere around there too. I know that it's still kind of there on the entry to Club but it's nothing like it used to be. Plenty of extra £££ for the owners for people who sit around there now!

 

I find the complex very Mickey Mouse - the new Abbey is better than the previous chicane but I'm not a fan of the rest of it - until Luffield. Losing Bridge was a travesty. 

 

Maybe they should take a leaf out of Abu Dhabi's book (did I just type that?!) and make it flat out from Abbey down to the Wellington straight and cut out the silly fiddly bits in-between. At least Silverstone's historical 'flow' and speed would be reinstated!

 

I agree i don't like the new complex section i find that it has totally ruined the flow of the circuit. When i went to the final BTCC super touring race meeting. Me and my dad sat the grandstand next too Bridge and that was an awesome spot to watch the cars coming into thru bridge into that little arena. The Bridge Layout had a good fast flow too it i have never liked the upgrades and current track configuration. Like Spa they have sanitized the track beyond belief and it has lost a lot of its character and soul 



#355 PayasYouRace

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Posted 30 November 2021 - 13:32

Wet racing.


We still have wet racing. We’ve had it a few times this year.

And no, I’m not including Spa. But that would have been a stopped or postponed race in any era.

#356 PayasYouRace

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Posted 30 November 2021 - 13:55

1998 calendar - 16 Grands Prix - Aus, Bra, Arg, SMR, Esp, Mon, Can, Fra, GB, Aut, Ger, Hun, Bel, Ita, Lux, Jap.

Looks like bliss to me.


I noticed when playing F1 2021, and messing with the custom season feature, that you can create a superb 16 race season of “traditional” venues just from current circuits in the game. Try this for size:

18 Apr: Imola
2 May: Portimao
9 May: Barcelona
23 May: Monaco
13 June: Montreal
20 June: Paul Ricard
4 July: Red Bull Ring
18 July: Silverstone
1 Aug: Hungaroring
29 Aug: Spa
5 Sep: Zandvoort
12 Sep: Monza
10 Oct: Suzuka
7 Nov: Mexico City
14 Nov: Interlagos
21 Nov: Melbourne

#357 absinthedude

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Posted 30 November 2021 - 15:18

We still have wet racing. We’ve had it a few times this year.

And no, I’m not including Spa. But that would have been a stopped or postponed race in any era.

 

I think the race would have gone ahead in the 60s and before. But not after the mid 70s for sure....they might have started it and abandoned it. Those conditions were highly unusual and very dangerous. The problem was that there's no provision in the rules to run the race on a weekday a few days later....and the calendar is so stuffed full these days they cannot postpone it until another weekend because there's nowhere to slot it in.



#358 IrvTheSwerve

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Posted 30 November 2021 - 15:54

We still have wet racing. We’ve had it a few times this year.

And no, I’m not including Spa. But that would have been a stopped or postponed race in any era.

 

Not saying you're wrong, as the weather was very poor - but I'd say that there were points during Spa 98 that were just as bad if not worse. It was a struggle to see any cars as some stages via TV. 

 

Of course, arguably that race should have been stopped anyway.



#359 Risil

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Posted 30 November 2021 - 16:04

Mm. Arguably it's beside the point whether the race would've been stopped if it had taken place in 1998, and it would seem like a strange question to ask for anyone less invested in the sport's tradition than we are. I'd want to focus on how likely a major accident would've been, and whether there was anything short of cancellation that could've brought the risk down.

 

I don't think alternative options were sufficiently explored and the actual running of the Grand Prix was undoubtedly botched. When the crisis happened the FIA seemed totally unprepared.



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#360 IrvTheSwerve

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Posted 30 November 2021 - 16:14

Mm. Arguably it's beside the point whether the race would've been stopped if it had taken place in 1998, and it would seem like a strange question to ask for anyone less invested in the sport's tradition than we are. I'd want to focus on how likely a major accident would've been, and whether there was anything short of cancellation that could've brought the risk down.

 

I don't think alternative options were sufficiently explored and the actual running of the Grand Prix was undoubtedly botched. When the crisis happened the FIA seemed totally unprepared.

 

Absolutely - I'd like to think that post-Spa, F1 has started to look in to 'what-ifs' in terms of having to postpone a race or race on the Monday. Probably not, though.



#361 PlatenGlass

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Posted 30 November 2021 - 16:43

Absolutely - I'd like to think that post-Spa, F1 has started to look in to 'what-ifs' in terms of having to postpone a race or race on the Monday. Probably not, though.

I think we had a thread where we solved the problem of getting F1 cars to work in the wet. (Wheel covers, proper wet tyres and raised ride height from what I remember.)

Edited by PlatenGlass, 30 November 2021 - 16:44.


#362 messy

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Posted 30 November 2021 - 20:22

Preach! Those Jordans, Jaguars and Arrows :love: Even the Minardi that year looked cool! :cool:

Mazzacane_en_Minardi_F1_2000.jpg


That 2000 Minardi is maybe my favourite "one off" (as in one season only) livery of all. It was the same livery as Alonso's F3000 car but oddly when Fernando went to Minardi the following year, the livery was gone. Probably because the team changed ownership but still a shame. Is it yellow or is it green? Who cares, its cool.

2000 gave us the classic Orange Arrows (spoiled in 2001 with Red Bull logos), the first Jaguar that even though the livery generally stayed the same in following years, never looked as beautiful again for me, the neon Jordans and Minardis, the first and best BMW Williams livery, the BAR was smart, even....even the more ordinary colour schemes that year were bloody lovely.

#363 Risil

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Posted 30 November 2021 - 20:34

Oriol Servia had it that year in CART too.

My dad went to the Belgian GP and came back reporting that the Minardi was a totally different colour in person.

#364 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 30 November 2021 - 20:37

I miss competitive independent teams.  

what makes an independent team?



#365 r4mses

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Posted 30 November 2021 - 20:55

what makes an independent team?

 

They pay for their engines?



#366 r4mses

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Posted 30 November 2021 - 21:00

I miss the V10/V8 noise - I used to attend a race sonewhere in the world every year. The last I attended was Malaysia 2014. That was it for me - the wow factor you get in person was gone.

 

However, for me the real, as you call it, wow factor is/was the first time you hear a V10 in person accelerate near by. 



#367 Squeed

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Posted 30 November 2021 - 21:33

what makes an independent team?

 

The small teams that rely on team revenue for operating costs. 



#368 Sterzo

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Posted 30 November 2021 - 21:54

I think we had a thread where we solved the problem of getting F1 cars to work in the wet.

That's the great thing about internet forums. I'm hoping to start threads to solve climate change and my lack of attractiveness to women.



#369 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 30 November 2021 - 22:34

The small teams that rely on team revenue for operating costs. 

why can't it be big and independent?

Red Bull is as independent as they come. 



#370 Squeed

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Posted 30 November 2021 - 23:27

why can't it be big and independent?

Red Bull is as independent as they come. 

 

Because their startup cash infusion is on the same scale as factory teams.  

I miss having someone like Andretti being able to start a team and have a real chance of winning a constructor's championship if they have a good engineer and driver.  

The budget scale has gone far beyond that being realistic any more. 

 

But don't get me wrong, I love Red Bull for everything they've done for motorsport.  Even though I can't stand Horner or Marko, I love and respect the Red Bull ownership group for investing in F1 and pouring tons of cash into many cash-starved racing categories.  They are heroes of motorsport in my book. 


Edited by Squeed, 30 November 2021 - 23:31.


#371 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 01 December 2021 - 04:45

That's the great thing about internet forums. I'm hoping to start threads to solve climate change and my lack of attractiveness to women.


Let’s solve the wet weather thingy first, shall we?

#372 absinthedude

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Posted 01 December 2021 - 09:22

Not saying you're wrong, as the weather was very poor - but I'd say that there were points during Spa 98 that were just as bad if not worse. It was a struggle to see any cars as some stages via TV. 

 

Of course, arguably that race should have been stopped anyway.

 

 

I feel 2021 was worse, the way the rain was so relentless and the moisture just hanging in the trees. But I'd have to dig out my tape of 1998 to be sure. 

 

I think we had a thread where we solved the problem of getting F1 cars to work in the wet. (Wheel covers, proper wet tyres and raised ride height from what I remember.)

 

The cars can race in the wet, unless the track geography just makes it impossible for the track to dry out. That was the problem with Spa, as much as anything the trees as I mentioned above. They work fine in the wet. the problem was one of visibility. If you cannot see the car in front, even with it's red light on, then it's not safe. If you cannot see the kerbs, it's not safe. 



#373 statman

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Posted 01 December 2021 - 10:15

some things I miss:

 

  • The F1 intro with the electric guitar music
  • Having 30+ cars on the grid
  • All those small (sometimes shady) teams that could enter
  • stranded cars next to the track during the race
  • V12/V10 engine noise
  • About 10 different engine suppliers

Edited by statman, 01 December 2021 - 10:18.


#374 Ferrim

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Posted 01 December 2021 - 11:13

For me, 2000 was the absolute GOAT season for car liveries and form. They were beautiful. Was there actually an ugly car that year? 

 

There was a lot of colour on that grid. I miss that, although it has gotten better in recent years. 



#375 InfamousArrows

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Posted 01 December 2021 - 12:54

There was a lot of colour on that grid. I miss that, although it has gotten better in recent years. 

 

I thought about this a lot. There's still quite a bit of colour on the grid, though not as much as back then but the main difference for me is the design of the cars. F1 cars back then looked so much simpler and cleaner and more recognisable. 

You get used to it after a while but looking back I realise how ugly these modern F1 cars look in terms of design. There's now colour scheme that can make up for that. Combined with bad liveries, you get monstrosities like the W12 and FW43B



#376 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 01 December 2021 - 13:13

Fun fact: You need at least one yellow team on the grid in order to achieve a fulfilling livery mix. I believe this to be scientifically indisputable.


Edited by Rediscoveryx, 01 December 2021 - 13:13.


#377 Ferrim

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Posted 01 December 2021 - 13:27

I noticed when playing F1 2021, and messing with the custom season feature, that you can create a superb 16 race season of “traditional” venues just from current circuits in the game. Try this for size:

18 Apr: Imola
2 May: Portimao
9 May: Barcelona
23 May: Monaco
13 June: Montreal
20 June: Paul Ricard
4 July: Red Bull Ring
18 July: Silverstone
1 Aug: Hungaroring
29 Aug: Spa
5 Sep: Zandvoort
12 Sep: Monza
10 Oct: Suzuka
7 Nov: Mexico City
14 Nov: Interlagos
21 Nov: Melbourne

 

Let me change that order to:

 

Melbourne

Interlagos

Mexico

Imola

Monaco

Barcelona

Portimao

Montreal

Paul Ricard

Silverstone

RB Ring

Hungaroring

Zandvoort

Spa

Monza

Suzuka

 

 

I'm also fine with Interlagos moving to the end of the season :)



#378 Ferrim

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Posted 01 December 2021 - 13:35

That 2000 Minardi is maybe my favourite "one off" (as in one season only) livery of all. It was the same livery as Alonso's F3000 car but oddly when Fernando went to Minardi the following year, the livery was gone. Probably because the team changed ownership but still a shame. Is it yellow or is it green? Who cares, its cool.

 

It was painted that way after Minardi's title sponsor that year, Spanish telecommunications company Telefónica. I think that was the only time ever that Minardi had a proper title sponsor? They paid a reported $18 million, which would be decent sponsorship even today, never mind back in 2000 and for Minardi. Telefónica were involved in negotiations to actually purchase the team in early 2000, but they went nowhere. After the summer, the company changed leadership and the new direction decided to pull out of F1.



#379 pathogen

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Posted 01 December 2021 - 18:49

9-6-4-3-2-1

 

Pre-qualifying

 

Rubbish teams never making the grid

 

Rubbish teams scoring a surprise result (Brazil 1981, Dallas 1984, International Trophy 1978)

 

Clean, distinctive, and attractive helmet designs

 

Colin Chapman

 

Teletext coverage

all this and private operated teams like Rebaque's Lotus, Lunger's McLaren, Merzario's March or Hill's Shadow. Diversity.



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#380 pathogen

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Posted 01 December 2021 - 18:50

Ah... and Mexico's peraltada.



#381 Dhillon

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 08:56

Midfielders challenging the top teams. At one point Frentzen in Jordan had a realistic shot at wdc.

#382 messy

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 11:07

It was painted that way after Minardi's title sponsor that year, Spanish telecommunications company Telefónica. I think that was the only time ever that Minardi had a proper title sponsor? They paid a reported $18 million, which would be decent sponsorship even today, never mind back in 2000 and for Minardi. Telefónica were involved in negotiations to actually purchase the team in early 2000, but they went nowhere. After the summer, the company changed leadership and the new direction decided to pull out of F1.

 

The Minardi ownership thing really rumbled on that year as I think sadly Gabriele Rumi knew he was dying and needed to sell the team while he could? It was like pass the parcel in the end - he sold to Mazzacane's sponsors, who then themselves sold it on to Paul Stoddart to begin the 'European Minardi' era. I hadn't realised there was such a prospect of selling the team to Telefonica - you wonder what difference that might have made to them given the resources Telefonica had. I still feel sad about the loss of Minardi, even though I know the team has survived which you can't say for many.



#383 Ferrim

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 15:20

Actually Mazzacane's sponsors went back on the deal, and it was Rumi who finally sold the team to Stoddart.

BTW, at the beginning of this season I had a fun time with the "MAZ" abbreviation for Russia's favourite driver - it kept reminding me of Mazzacane, in part because they used MAZ for him in the PlayStation F1 2000 videogame.

#384 cpbell

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 22:19

Actually Mazzacane's sponsors went back on the deal, and it was Rumi who finally sold the team to Stoddart.

BTW, at the beginning of this season I had a fun time with the "MAZ" abbreviation for Russia's favourite driver - it kept reminding me of Mazzacane, in part because they used MAZ for him in the PlayStation F1 2000 videogame.

Mkes me wonder which, at their best, would have been the superior driver. :lol:



#385 Alfisti

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 23:11

Midfielders challenging the top teams. At one point Frentzen in Jordan had a realistic shot at wdc.


Was never on in a million years.

#386 ARTGP

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 23:14

Was never on in a million years.

 

The right driver in that Racing Point from last season would have given Verstappen and Hamilton the hurry ups.



#387 Alfisti

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 23:24

No.

#388 Astandahl

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 23:25

The right driver in that Racing Point from last season would have given Verstappen and Hamilton the hurry ups.

Nope...



#389 nivoglibina

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 01:48

Why nope? Verstappen is regularly half a second quicker than Perez this year, look where that would have ended him up on the grid in a Racing Point.
I know you can't claim that the pace difference would have been the same if we put Verstappen in last years RP, but still....
Especially in the beginning of the season, I think it was at least as good as RB.


Edited by nivoglibina, 03 December 2021 - 01:59.


#390 ARTGP

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 02:15

No.

 

 

Nope...

 

I didn't say they'd beat the W12, but in more than half of the races of 2020, Hamilton and Verstappen were struggling to stay awake.  RP20 with the right pilot would have given them grief. Verstappen was even outqualified in Silverstone by a guest driver.....

 

When I skim Checo's qualy results, he did not do that car justice in the slightest on a Saturday. Average qualy of P7. Would have been P4 or better routinely with a better qualifier.   The way Verstappen would outqualify Bottas in the W12, is what that RP20 should have done to Albon at minimum and furthermore, Leclerc's Ferrari had no right being P4....against the likes of the RP20. Leclerc would have beaten any Ferrari on a Saturday.

 

 

 

Sergio Perez 7.07 6 17 4     4 8 4 6 4 9 5 11 3 5 5 15

Edited by ARTGP, 03 December 2021 - 02:24.


#391 dannyricsshoe

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 06:27

F1 without Team Mercedes
Drivers with personality
Engines blowing up every race
V10/V12 engines
Lotus, Brabham

For me the personality is a big one. It's hard to connect with fans when it may as well be a group of drones racing.

We want to see more fights and passion. Drivers who hate each other and drivers free to say what they want without a PR conference beforehand.

Good start would be getting rid of paid drives.