39 replies to this topic

[Hati]

I think I saw this idea thrown out somewhere else than here but if it has been discussed before this thread can be forgotten.

 

Idea that I heard is to move timing line somewhere before the pit entry in the last sector for qualifying, reason is that with it being close to pit entry a driver don't have to complete slow lap among those cars that are in hot lap but he could steer right to pit. For example, if timing of the quali lap would start and end in middle of the corner previously known as Parabolica drivers could steer right to pits with practically no interference for those who start hot lap after them.

 

Only thing I wonder about this is that does the cars need to cool down after fast lap, are for example brake temperatures too hot if driver goes straight to pit from a fast lap? I would guess no since they can do pit stops at the race.

[PayasYouRace]

The Indycar system. Works well as it effectively reduces any qualifying attempt by one lap, given the driver more time. It also reduces traffic.

 

I’ve been suggesting it for ages.

[LucaP]

That's such a sensible and straightforward suggestion that F1's answer would be "let's move the timing line randomly in places that will only be revealed 5 minutes before each session"

[JBJ]

That's such a sensible and straightforward suggestion that F1's answer would be "let's move the timing line randomly in places that will only be revealed 5 minutes before each session"

You forget to mention that we can try this 3 times a year just to see if it works

[Anja]

How dare you suggest they ruin the sacred tradition of qualifying traffic. 

[Rediscoveryx]

This is actually a good idea.

Another one a bit outside the box that I admittedly haven’t thought through properly (so just whingin’ it here); is it really necessary for qualifying to comprise the entire lap?

Let’s say (at Sochi for instance) that you start timing 200 metres ahead of the first corner, finish line is just after the final corner before pit entry. No drivers are allowed more than one lap at a time (ie, they must pit after each attempt). Drivers are sent out at five second intervalls with cold tyres.

Could/should be quite spectacular to see and no dangerous situations with drivers bunching up at the final corner to get a tow or slower cars getting in the way.

Edited by Rediscoveryx, 25 September 2021 - 09:01.

[milestone 11]

It works perfectly well in Indycar.

[kedia990]

Another positive would be that cars could carry fuel for 1 lap less (no cool down lap), so they'd be marginally (but not a whole lot) faster due to that factor as well.

 

Playing devil's advocate, a downside would be that sector times would become asymmetric / irrelevant. Don't think it matters anyway, but just noting it.

 

EDIT: Do F1 cars rely on the cool-down lap to recharge their batteries for subsequent runs? Or is the out-lap sufficient for that?

Edited by kedia990, 25 September 2021 - 09:12.

[r4mses]

 

 

Only thing I wonder about this is that does the cars need to cool down after fast lap, are for example brake temperatures too hot if driver goes straight to pit from a fast lap? I would guess no since they can do pit stops at the race.

 

This can't be an issue, as they stop during the race, too

[PlatenGlass]

I've often wondered why the start/finish line has to coincide with where the pitlane is, regardless of qualifying issues.

 

But anyway, this doesn't seem too bad an idea. Though you definitely would not have the start/finish line in the middle of a corner. You'd have it decently before the start of the braking zone on the final straight or you'd get some very "interesting" attempts to finish a lap quickly.

 

And while this might sort out the problem of drivers on their in lap, you specifically mentioned Monza. This might have just been as an example, but the main problem at Monza isn't in laps - it's drivers all jostling for position on their out laps to get a slipstream, so that problem wouldn't go away.

[Rediscoveryx]

I've often wondered why the start/finish line has to coincide with where the pitlane is, regardless of qualifying issues.

 

But anyway, this doesn't seem too bad an idea. Though you definitely would not have the start/finish line in the middle of a corner. You'd have it decently before the start of the braking zone on the final straight or you'd get some very "interesting" attempts to finish a lap quickly.

 

And while this might sort out the problem of drivers on their in lap, you specifically mentioned Monza. This might have just been as an example, but the main problem at Monza isn't in laps - it's drivers all jostling for position on their out laps to get a slipstream, so that problem wouldn't go away.

 

What would you think of the idea to cut the lap short (for a track like Monza)? Ie, start timing 150 metres before the first corner, end it at the exit of Parabolica, and then mandate that all drivers pit directly after each attempt? That way, you could send them out with five second intervals taking tows/slower cars on out/in-laps completely out of the equation.

[TomNokoe]

It's a fine idea, but I do like the consistency of having the timing line in the same place. Plus, it's a bit naff they have to borrow the idea from Indycar.

It would likely change the behaviour of the tyres and ERS deployment slightly, but I doubt enough to make a difference competitively.

It's still a sticking plaster though. Traffic and slipstream would still interrupt qualifying.

[noikeee]

I don't like this idea, would make it impossible to compare qualy laptimes with race laptimes. Also makes it slightly more complicated. The simplicity of a lap being from point A back to point A again, makes more sense to me.

[PlatenGlass]

What would you think of the idea to cut the lap short (for a track like Monza)? Ie, start timing 150 metres before the first corner, end it at the exit of Parabolica, and then mandate that all drivers pit directly after each attempt? That way, you could send them out with five second intervals taking tows/slower cars on out/in-laps completely out of the equation.

It's an interesting idea. As people have said though, not doing a whole lap would be slightly unsatisfactory - there would be a whole section of track that wouldn't exist for qualifying which might be worse for other tracks. At Monza there might be space after the final corner to have the start/finish and then come into the pits, but on other tracks you might have to miss out the last corner or series of corners from the qualifying lap.

[r4mses]

I don't like this idea, would make it impossible to compare qualy laptimes with race laptimes. Also makes it slightly more complicated. The simplicity of a lap being from point A back to point A again, makes more sense to me.

 

Ehh.... it's still a whole lap?! just slightly shifted?! Except for the first and finale lap, times are comparable.

[GlenWatkins]

This works well for IndyCar...it effectively eliminates the cool own lap which leaves more room for the cars who have yet set a time.

[Myrvold]

It's an interesting idea. As people have said though, not doing a whole lap would be slightly unsatisfactory - there would be a whole section of track that wouldn't exist for qualifying which might be worse for other tracks. At Monza there might be space after the final corner to have the start/finish and then come into the pits, but on other tracks you might have to miss out the last corner or series of corners from the qualifying lap.

No?
The laptime starts at the place it ends. It just doesnt start at the s/f line.

[noikeee]

Ehh.... it's still a whole lap?! just slightly shifted?! Except for the first and finale lap, times are comparable.

Misunderstood it then.

[Myrvold]

Plus, it's a bit naff they have to borrow the idea from Indycar.

Like the two compound rule?
Very F1-esque though. See something that works, and not using it because a "lesser series" came up with it.

[Lights]

I've often wondered why the start/finish line has to coincide with where the pitlane is, regardless of qualifying issues.

 

There might be other reasons but I can imagine it's because the grid/start procedure is quite a long one, involving lots of people, and the pitlane/paddock is where most of the people and facilities are.

 

All these people and their equipment must get back into the pits before the race start:

[PlatenGlass]

No?
The laptime starts at the place it ends. It just doesnt start at the s/f line.

Not in the post I was quoting.

[milestone 11]

Not in the post I was quoting.

Start/finish line stays where it is. Qualy start/finish line is in a position that allows pit entry after completing the timed qualy lap.

Edited by milestone 11, 25 September 2021 - 12:29.

[Collombin]

I've often wondered why the start/finish line has to coincide with where the pitlane is, regardless of qualifying issues

Did it ever cause any issues at Anderstorp? It was just quirky.

[Frank Tuesday]

Like the two compound rule?
Very F1-esque though. See something that works, and not using it because a "lesser series" came up with it.

When comparing IndyCar to F1, you don't have to put "lesser series" in quotes

[PlatenGlass]

Start/finish line stays where Qualy start/finish line is in a position that allows pit entry after completing the timed qualy lap.

I was quoting a post that had start and finish in different places.

[PayasYouRace]

Did it ever cause any issues at Anderstorp? It was just quirky.

 

I'd imagine it was a quite a nightmare for the mechanics who had to be a the grid to start, or restart, a car. But I guess with pitstops not being as common, those mechanics could have a more leisurely stroll back to the pits.

[PlatenGlass]

OK, here's what we do. You have the start/finish straight, and you have the pitlane entrance towards the end of the straight after the start/finish line so you can pit immediately after a qulifying lap. The pitlane has a hairpin turn and goes back against the direction of the start/finish straight and you come back out of the pits just before the final corner so you can start a lap as soon as you come out of the pits. (Obviously just looping through the pitlane and across the start/finish line won't count as completing a lap in the race.)

 

This obviously means losing loads more time in the pits in the race. I don't really mind.

[solochamp07]

How about the drivers and teams improve their attention and communication during qualifying? That would cure 99% of the “driver x blocked me!” incidents, the fia just needs to make it more “worthwhile” for the teams to prioritize it.

[Rediscoveryx]

How about the drivers and teams improve their attention and communication during qualifying? That would cure 99% of the “driver x blocked me!” incidents, the fia just needs to make it more “worthwhile” for the teams to prioritize it.

 

I think this only works in theory. It's a bit utopian to believe that they'll put as much effort into avoiding other cars on flyers as they are optimizing their own gaps.

[Rediscoveryx]

OK, here's what we do. You have the start/finish straight, and you have the pitlane entrance towards the end of the straight after the start/finish line so you can pit immediately after a qulifying lap. The pitlane has a hairpin turn and goes back against the direction of the start/finish straight and you come back out of the pits just before the final corner so you can start a lap as soon as you come out of the pits. (Obviously just looping through the pitlane and across the start/finish line won't count as completing a lap in the race.)

 

This obviously means losing loads more time in the pits in the race. I don't really mind.

 

Even better would be to just do the whole thing in reverse during qually (obviously with modifications made to entries/exits so that they can be safely navigated in both directions). Then you'd enter the track at the pit exit, immidiately start your flier and then pit directly after completing it (at what is now the pit exit).

 

As in the previous suggestion, add a red/green light at pit exit (what is now pit entry) and send them out in five second intervalls (deferring to cars on flyers if there is a conflict) and you've solved the issue with cars bunching up, competing for tow, ruining each others flyers etc. 

 

Not that this idea will happen, but in theory I think it could work and actually be a quite big improvement in many ways.

Edited by Rediscoveryx, 25 September 2021 - 18:23.

[Muppetmad]

It's such an eminently sensible solution that I'm confident it will never be implemented.

[PayasYouRace]

OK, here's what we do. You have the start/finish straight, and you have the pitlane entrance towards the end of the straight after the start/finish line so you can pit immediately after a qulifying lap. The pitlane has a hairpin turn and goes back against the direction of the start/finish straight and you come back out of the pits just before the final corner so you can start a lap as soon as you come out of the pits. (Obviously just looping through the pitlane and across the start/finish line won't count as completing a lap in the race.)

 

This obviously means losing loads more time in the pits in the race. I don't really mind.

 

Surely that's overcomplicating it so much?

 

At least the OP's suggestion is a proven idea that takes very little cost to implement.

[Myrvold]

Not in the post I was quoting.

 

Sorry!

[Myrvold]

When comparing IndyCar to F1, you don't have to put "lesser series" in quotes

 

Thanks for proving my point

[PlatenGlass]

Surely that's overcomplicating it so much?

At least the OP's suggestion is a proven idea that takes very little cost to implement.

It wasn't intended to be 100% serious.

Maybe just 86%.

[Peat]

Plus, it's a bit naff they have to borrow the idea from Indycar.
 

 

Virtual Safety Car wasn't an F1 invention. It started off as 'Code 60' in the 24h series, then WEC adapted it. Then F1.

Edited by Peat, 25 September 2021 - 21:34.

[Cig35]

It’s a good idea, but I believe that the F1 cars need both the inlap and the outlap to recharge the battery after it has been drained during the hot lap. If that isn’t the case then I would say that F1 should do it.

[PayasYouRace]

 Plus, it's a bit naff they have to borrow the idea from Indycar.
 

 

No, what's naff is the thinking that F1 is above taking good ideas from other series.

[Rediscoveryx]

It’s a good idea, but I believe that the F1 cars need both the inlap and the outlap to recharge the battery after it has been drained during the hot lap. If that isn’t the case then I would say that F1 should do it.

Would it be a problem if qualifying was done with a separate battery pack that didn’t require a lap of recharging? Or that could be recharged in the pits.

[keeppari]

It works perfectly well in Indycar.

Copying something from lesser racing series invented in the colonies is not in the spirit of what F1 represents.