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Are pitstops now actually more dangerous?


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#1 Topsu

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Posted 26 September 2021 - 15:24

In an effort to make pitstops safer and stop the mechanics from releasing cars in an unsafe condition, FIA decided to add a latency into the pistop procedures. This way the mechanics can't give a green light from their corner before their action is actually completed. Now that the new rules are in effect, we have seen more pitstop mishaps in a few races than in a long time. There has been a drastic increase in confusion on the pitlane, which I think is a bad thing for safety. Any kind of confusion can lead to a dangerous situation, and overall I would say the pitlane is not any safer now than it was before these artificials latencies. I think the change was unwarranted because pitlane safety was not a big issue whatsoever, and now the situation isn't any better. I don't even want to get into the discussion of who this benefits and who it hinders, all I can say that I am not convinced this is a good safety measure.

 

You could argue that a car getting stuck in the pitbox can't be called a dangerous situation, but when it happens it will always lead to panicked decision-making. I'm afraid we might see situations where a wheel is not properly attached and the green signal is not given, but instead of figuring out the issue, a mechanic will just assume that "it must be the new rule" and override the safety system. What are your thoughts?


Edited by Topsu, 26 September 2021 - 15:29.


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#2 Tufty

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Posted 26 September 2021 - 15:27

I think the most dangerous moment in the pits this year had nothing to do with the pit stop rules, but came from Lewis accidentally coming in with brake magic turned on. I'd have banned that button before I messed with the pit stops.



#3 flyboym3

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Posted 26 September 2021 - 15:28

It seems safer to me, havent seen a car released yet with a wheel nut that wasn't fastened correctly.  This was happening all the time under the old system.

I guess if/when that happens there's something to discuss.


Edited by flyboym3, 26 September 2021 - 15:29.


#4 ANF

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Posted 26 September 2021 - 15:29

No. The cars are not dangerous as long as they are stationary in their pit box. I don't actually know what has caused the delays, but I suspect some of them have been caused by mechanics not being used to the new equipment/procedures. Things will get better.



#5 ARTGP

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Posted 26 September 2021 - 15:30

Safety isn't the issue though. They are just considerably slower on occasion. The "mistake" seems to be a relatively harmless one that's not impacting safety.



#6 OO7

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Posted 26 September 2021 - 15:30

I think the most dangerous moment in the pits this year had nothing to do with the pit stop rules, but came from Lewis accidentally coming in with brake magic turned on. I'd have banned that button before I messed with the pit stops.

The same can happen by forgetting to shift brake balance rearwards after trying to heat up the fronts, so much of a muchness in my opinion.



#7 SophieB

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Posted 26 September 2021 - 15:31

They don’t seem more dangerous, they do seem slower.



#8 pdac

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Posted 26 September 2021 - 16:30

In an effort to make pitstops safer and stop the mechanics from releasing cars in an unsafe condition, FIA decided to add a latency into the pistop procedures. This way the mechanics can't give a green light from their corner before their action is actually completed. Now that the new rules are in effect, we have seen more pitstop mishaps in a few races than in a long time. There has been a drastic increase in confusion on the pitlane, which I think is a bad thing for safety. Any kind of confusion can lead to a dangerous situation, and overall I would say the pitlane is not any safer now than it was before these artificials latencies. I think the change was unwarranted because pitlane safety was not a big issue whatsoever, and now the situation isn't any better. I don't even want to get into the discussion of who this benefits and who it hinders, all I can say that I am not convinced this is a good safety measure.

 

You could argue that a car getting stuck in the pitbox can't be called a dangerous situation, but when it happens it will always lead to panicked decision-making. I'm afraid we might see situations where a wheel is not properly attached and the green signal is not given, but instead of figuring out the issue, a mechanic will just assume that "it must be the new rule" and override the safety system. What are your thoughts?

 

Yep, that's my argument.



#9 Baddoer

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Posted 26 September 2021 - 17:19

Just stupid, as usual for everyting FIA does.



#10 Jovanotti

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Posted 26 September 2021 - 18:58

Just stupid, as usual for everyting FIA does.

Exactly, complete cluster****. Has RB who regularly had the fastest stops ever released a car in unsafe condition? Instead we now see slow stops left, right and center. Well I guess it rather is another measure to "spice up the show" (or clever lobbying on Mercedes' part).

Edited by Jovanotti, 26 September 2021 - 19:00.


#11 azza200

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Posted 26 September 2021 - 23:40

Just have all pit stops have a mandatory committee meeting like Ferrari did at the European GP 99 y'know for safety and entertainment value 



#12 r4mses

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Posted 26 September 2021 - 23:46

Just have all pit stops have a mandatory committee meeting like Ferrari did at the European GP 99 y'know for safety and entertainment value 

 

I see your Ferrari '99 and raise you BOT '21 :p



#13 ANF

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 00:07

They don’t seem more dangerous, they do seem slower.

Here are the 2019–2021 pit stop times at Sochi from Formula1.com.
Some of the slow stops might have been caused by repairs or penalties, I didn't look into that.
 

2021*    2020    2019    
29.242  28.748  29.290
29.354  29.395  29.401
29.578  29.409  29.436
29.824  29.433  29.548
29.878  29.602  29.571
29.901  29.662  29.751
29.936  29.675  29.786
29.996  29.750  29.854
30.056  29.767  29.857
30.081  29.770  29.860
30.102  29.862  29.935
30.112  29.988  29.978
30.127  30.054  30.103
30.157  30.068  30.168
30.241  30.111  30.177
30.665  30.112  30.227
30.715  30.165  30.271
31.849  30.188  30.509
33.617  30.211  30.587
36.026  30.261  30.753
        31.368  34.264
        33.317  36.031
        37.108  36.512
        41.352  38.193
    
median  median  median
30.092  30.021  30.041

* only including stops on a dry pitlane

Edited by ANF, 27 September 2021 - 00:09.


#14 SB

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 00:39

 More error from pit crew yes, more dangerous definitely not.



#15 SenorSjon

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 07:07

 More error from pit crew yes, more dangerous definitely not.

 

There is bound to be a loose nut somewhere with this button-pressing mishap we didn't have before. I loved the ultra-fast pitstops Red Bull and Williams were renowed for. Now it just seems idiotic to see them waiting to release the car.



#16 PayasYouRace

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 07:11

The difference made by the new rules is that it's less likely a car will be released when something has gone wrong. Before, when something had gone wrong and the panic set it, it was easy to release the driver before the work was properly completed. Things are always going to go wrong at pitstops. The teams will get used to the new procedures. We already had very quick stops yesterday.

#17 Chmielinski

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 07:17

It seems safer to me, havent seen a car released yet with a wheel nut that wasn't fastened correctly.  This was happening all the time under the old system.

 

Name the last time.



#18 TomNokoe

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 09:11

I'm actually quite shocked at just how much has changed since the directive, and I think it totally justifies the FIA's decision.

Clearly the teams were automating a lot of the processes, and decisions were being made by computers rather than humans. I'm glad we're back to "analogue" pitstops where human skill is rewarded.

#19 Laptom

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 09:21

I'm actually quite shocked at just how much has changed since the directive, and I think it totally justifies the FIA's decision.

Clearly the teams were automating a lot of the processes, and decisions were being made by computers rather than humans. I'm glad we're back to "analogue" pitstops where human skill is rewarded.

 

Isn't the decision taken process now not more digital then in the pass (including a small time penalty)?



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#20 PayasYouRace

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 09:30

I'm actually quite shocked at just how much has changed since the directive, and I think it totally justifies the FIA's decision.

Clearly the teams were automating a lot of the processes, and decisions were being made by computers rather than humans. I'm glad we're back to "analogue" pitstops where human skill is rewarded.


It’s an interesting conflict. From a sporting perspective we want to maximise the human input. But from a safety perspective we want to minimise it.

#21 TomNokoe

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 09:31

Isn't the decision taken process now not more digital then in the pass (including a small time penalty)?


Didn't Red Bull have sensors in their wheelguns that would automatically "confirm" once a bolt was tightened, without any human input at all, whereas now the gunner has to manually confirm?

#22 pdac

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 09:45

Is it just me that thinks the errors we saw are just down to the pit crews having to get used to the new regulations and it's all just teething problems right now? Surely if you practice a set routine until you can do it perfect every time, then someone changes one or two parameters, you'll need to re-do all of that practice again and again.



#23 JimmyClark

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 09:48

I'm actually quite shocked at just how much has changed since the directive, and I think it totally justifies the FIA's decision.

Clearly the teams were automating a lot of the processes, and decisions were being made by computers rather than humans. I'm glad we're back to "analogue" pitstops where human skill is rewarded.

 

Personally I absolutely loved seeing sub 2s pitstops; it was one of the most impressive things about modern F1. You still had humans changing the tyres. 

 

I definitely agree that the rule changes seem to have caused more problems than they solved, and a dodgy pitstop caused by the change could well decide the drivers' championship, given how close the margins are. 



#24 cpbell

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 14:22

 

 

I definitely agree that the rule changes seem to have caused more problems than they solved, and a dodgy pitstop caused by the change could well decide the drivers' championship, given how close the margins are. 

That applies to a variety of trivial incidents, though.