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So cheeky! Rule Exploits by Drivers


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#1 Loosenut

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 09:11

Thought this might be worth a thread. Schumacher used to call it "maximising within the rules".

So it was explained in Sochi, that if you cut the 1st corner, you'll get no punishment, but you'll have to negotiate the poly chicane and that should ruin your quali lap or cost you time/position whilst you are racing. Fernando Alonso made an innocent mistake at the start of course, but one or two wholly unreasonable cynics might argue that he figured if he cut that corner at the start, he could avoid any possible collisions and probably win himself some places. He totally "Playstationed it" and it actually was quite comical to watch.

 

Senna once posted fastest lap whilst going through the pits (sounds insane to say that now).

 

Just wondering what other examples we got of people getting cheeky with the rules and what was the outcome? In F1 or any other category.



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#2 Disgrace

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 09:13

Schumacher taking his stop/go penalty as he crossed the line to win at Silverstone in 1998 is surely a prime example.



#3 Anderis

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 09:17

Just wondering what other examples we got of people getting cheeky with the rules and what was the outcome? In F1 or any other category.

Every driver overtaking outside the track limits for a laughable penalty of 5 secs.



#4 CSF

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 09:19

Thought this might be worth a thread. Schumacher used to call it "maximising within the rules".

So it was explained in Sochi, that if you cut the 1st corner, you'll get no punishment, but you'll have to negotiate the poly chicane and that should ruin your quali lap or cost you time/position whilst you are racing. Fernando Alonso made an innocent mistake at the start of course, but one or two wholly unreasonable cynics might argue that he figured if he cut that corner at the start, he could avoid any possible collisions and probably win himself some places. He totally "Playstationed it" and it actually was quite comical to watch.

 

Senna once posted fastest lap whilst going through the pits (sounds insane to say that now).

 

Just wondering what other examples we got of people getting cheeky with the rules and what was the outcome? In F1 or any other category.

 

 

Alonso actually practiced it on his lap to the grid. Was very funny. Teflonso returns.  :lol:



#5 JimmyClark

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 09:19

The problem is the layout of the first corner and the fact that the rule means you can basically skip it with no penalty. Its happened at most Russian races - Hamilton did it in 2016 and made up a bunch of places from midfield with no penalty, as he could legitimately say he was avoiding an incident.

Luckily after next year it won't be on the calendar anymore.

#6 FortiFord

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 09:20

Norris at the previous race in Monza. He straightened his exit out of Parabolica by going off track which allowed him to pass Leclerc on the safety car restart. 



#7 kosmos

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 09:23

If anything, Alonso should be praised for this. This will put more pressure on FIA to do something about this ridiculous situation and if they still don't do anything, then every driver should do it.

 

Alonso changing his approach to F1’s rules as “the referee is doing nothing”

Alonso feels “a little bit stupid” for obeying track limits at start

FIA’s reluctance to enforce F1’s rules is “sad” – Alonso

Alonso: FIA should pay more attention to drivers overtaking off-track



#8 Dratini

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 09:23

 

I quite like this passage of racing between Alonso and Hamilton, both refusing to lead going past the DRS detection point.



#9 FortiFord

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 09:24

Some others

 

- Hamilton at T1 Mexico 2016.

- Spa 2010 on lap 1 at the bus stop chicane - multiple drivers missed their braking point and then decided to simply skip the remainder of the chicane. 



#10 TomNokoe

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 09:26

I think he got away with it because Ricciardo and Hamilton overtook him within a few corners anyway, but it was blatant and should've been punished.

#11 onemoresolo

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 09:26

Thought this might be worth a thread. Schumacher used to call it "maximising within the rules".

So it was explained in Sochi, that if you cut the 1st corner, you'll get no punishment, but you'll have to negotiate the poly chicane and that should ruin your quali lap or cost you time/position whilst you are racing. Fernando Alonso made an innocent mistake at the start of course, but one or two wholly unreasonable cynics might argue that he figured if he cut that corner at the start, he could avoid any possible collisions and probably win himself some places. He totally "Playstationed it" and it actually was quite comical to watch.

 

Senna once posted fastest lap whilst going through the pits (sounds insane to say that now).

 

Just wondering what other examples we got of people getting cheeky with the rules and what was the outcome? In F1 or any other category.

 

I think somebody on the Sky broadcast said - before the start of the race - that Alonso had tried going through that "chicane" on his way to the grid to see what the time loss was.

 

Makes you wonder if his first lap route was less of an "innocent mistake" and saw an opportunity to game the system. On the replays, he wasn't forced out, didn't lock up, just carried on with a load of extra speed...



#12 FortiFord

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 09:31

I think he got away with it because Ricciardo and Hamilton overtook him within a few corners anyway, but it was blatant and should've been punished.

 

How can you punish it? He followed the rules. 



#13 Anderis

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 09:35

 

I quite like this passage of racing between Alonso and Hamilton, both refusing to lead going past the DRS detection point.

I think Rosberg was the first one to purposefully hold back to get DRS, in Turkey 2011, I think.
 



#14 pdac

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 09:53

If anything, Alonso should be praised for this. This will put more pressure on FIA to do something about this ridiculous situation and if they still don't do anything, then every driver should do it.

 

Alonso changing his approach to F1’s rules as “the referee is doing nothing”

Alonso feels “a little bit stupid” for obeying track limits at start

FIA’s reluctance to enforce F1’s rules is “sad” – Alonso

Alonso: FIA should pay more attention to drivers overtaking off-track

 

Agree in once sense. But the problem is that they WON'T do anything about it and everyone WILL start doing this sort of thing - and that's something really not what I want to see (I kind of like the idea of racing on a defined track).


Edited by pdac, 27 September 2021 - 09:53.


#15 pRy

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 09:54

I feel a little uneasy about a driver deciding ahead of time that they're not going to even attempt to take turn one at the start. That feels a little too close to cheating rather than cheeky. But Alonso may argue he intended to take turn one but saw no way to do so.



#16 TheFish

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 10:04

Perez did it in France a couple of years ago and was punished for gaining an advantage even though he followed the rules. I expected the same for Alonso yesterday.

 



#17 cheekybru

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 10:32

Every driver overtaking outside the track limits for a laughable penalty of 5 secs.


Danny ric last year should have been the example the stewards/FIA need to change the rules

Was told of his 5 sec penalty for overtaking off track and replied "it's ok IL just drive faster"

Farcial

#18 Amin

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 12:12

Kimi going wide at La Source in 2008 and 2009 to great effect.

Also, Kimi holding up the rest of the pack in Spa 2005 during the safety car so that McLaren could double stack JPM and Kimi and still come out 1-2. I believe the FIA outlawed this from the next race onwards, which Vettel fell foul of at Hungary 2010 IIRC.

Edited by Amin, 27 September 2021 - 12:17.


#19 danmills

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 12:43

 

I quite like this passage of racing between Alonso and Hamilton, both refusing to lead going past the DRS detection point.

 

Showcasing how exceptional these two are. 



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#20 Rinehart

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 12:46

Alonso actually practiced it on his lap to the grid. Was very funny. Teflonso returns.  :lol:

 

Seriously?!  :lol:  Practicing going straight on at turn 1 is clearly proof of premeditation - as I've long suspected drivers do. But to practice it - that is biscuit taking and Alonso should have been instructed to hand back a few spots. The "nowhere to go" excuse doesn't wash... at circuits without run off they have to concede positions.  



#21 Peat

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 12:50

A bit before my time, but I remember being told about it. 

Senna booting it off the final corner at Magny-Cours, knowing he would spin, in order to cross the timing line a knats-wotsit faster. 



#22 PlatenGlass

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 12:51

Alonso did a similar thing at Singapore in 2014. He ended up letting one Red Bull back past but not the other. 



#23 Peat

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 12:54

Re: ALonso. 

Raikkonen did something similar at the 2009 Belgian GP. Had no intention of making the turn and used the run off to gain 1 position immediately and utilised the better run off the corner to take another before Les Combes. 



#24 solochamp07

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 13:01

Simple, every time Alonso lost positions at the start of a race by somebody passing him off track in the first corner, he would come round here looking for the threads relentlessly bashing the perpetrator(s). Having found none, he figured it would be ok with you guys. How surprised and disappointed he will be to find there are unique rules of conduct on here for him and him alone. Thankfully the fia do not have a distinct set of Alonso-only rules, so he was rightfully unpunished in that arena.

#25 krapmeister

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 13:13

The simplest and most immediate thing the FIA could do to discourage the p!ss-taking like Alonso did here, is to make the route the drivers must navigate back onto the track SLOW enough that it isn't worth their while to shortcut the corner. I do wonder if the FIA opened the bollards up a bit this year after Sainz wiped himself out last year trying to do what Alonso did? The F2 and F3 guys were also flooring it through there as their cars are quite a bit narrower than F1 width....



#26 Atreiu

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 13:16

Very smart of Alonso to recognize something he has been doing for a very long time.



#27 pdac

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 13:28

The simplest and most immediate thing the FIA could do to discourage the p!ss-taking like Alonso did here, is to make the route the drivers must navigate back onto the track SLOW enough that it isn't worth their while to shortcut the corner. I do wonder if the FIA opened the bollards up a bit this year after Sainz wiped himself out last year trying to do what Alonso did? The F2 and F3 guys were also flooring it through there as their cars are quite a bit narrower than F1 width....

 

Or not have a route back onto the track at all.



#28 PayasYouRace

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 13:30

The simplest and most immediate thing the FIA could do to discourage the p!ss-taking like Alonso did here, is to make the route the drivers must navigate back onto the track SLOW enough that it isn't worth their while to shortcut the corner. I do wonder if the FIA opened the bollards up a bit this year after Sainz wiped himself out last year trying to do what Alonso did? The F2 and F3 guys were also flooring it through there as their cars are quite a bit narrower than F1 width....


Personally my simple solution is if you go through a shortcut like that without coming to a complete stop, you get a drive-through.

#29 Claymore25

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 13:39

This one:

 



#30 Clatter

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 13:43

How can you punish it? He followed the rules. 

 


Deliberately leaving the track is an offence, and personally I think it was a premeditated manoeuvre.

#31 solochamp07

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 13:45

Of course it was premeditated, he practiced it on the formation lap lol. Everyone slagging Alonso must have missed the multiple occasions where he got done that way and told the world this would be his strategy going forward until the rules start being enforced for others. Seems fair enough to me.

#32 IrvTheSwerve

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 13:47

Is there a sliding scale for jump-start penalties?

 

I've always wondered what would happen if someone accelerated off the grid after, say, 1 set of red lights came on and built up a bit of a lead. At the very least it would be a 10 sec stop/go, but I wonder if they would DQ for that kind of thing.



#33 Jerem

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 13:50

The fact that if your team-mate puts his car in the wall at the right time, it can turn a terrible strategy into a race-winning one.
How cheeky is that?



#34 as65p

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 13:53

I feel a little uneasy about a driver deciding ahead of time that they're not going to even attempt to take turn one at the start. That feels a little too close to cheating rather than cheeky. But Alonso may argue he intended to take turn one but saw no way to do so.

I reckon you'd be scared to death if you could really read what all goes to a drivers mind before a race. :p



#35 as65p

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 13:56

Is there a sliding scale for jump-start penalties?

 

I've always wondered what would happen if someone accelerated off the grid after, say, 1 set of red lights came on and built up a bit of a lead. At the very least it would be a 10 sec stop/go, but I wonder if they would DQ for that kind of thing.

99 percent sure they would.

 

However, somewhat similar, I always wondered what the penalty would be if someone doesn't do the mandatory tyre stop, or changes to the same tyre. Hasn't happened as far as I'm aware?!



#36 cpbell

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 13:56

If anything, Alonso should be praised for this. This will put more pressure on FIA to do something about this ridiculous situation and if they still don't do anything, then every driver should do it.

 

Alonso changing his approach to F1’s rules as “the referee is doing nothing”

Alonso feels “a little bit stupid” for obeying track limits at start

FIA’s reluctance to enforce F1’s rules is “sad” – Alonso

Alonso: FIA should pay more attention to drivers overtaking off-track

That's actually quite sad in a way.



#37 MLC

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 13:58

Is there a sliding scale for jump-start penalties?

 

I've always wondered what would happen if someone accelerated off the grid after, say, 1 set of red lights came on and built up a bit of a lead. At the very least it would be a 10 sec stop/go, but I wonder if they would DQ for that kind of thing.

 

Jean Alesi did this at a tin top race during a rolling start. It is quite hilarious as he starts from the back of the grid and is practically at the first corner before the other cars accelerate.



#38 as65p

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 13:58

The fact that if your team-mate puts his car in the wall at the right time, it can turn a terrible strategy into a race-winning one.
How cheeky is that?

Well, right on par with preventing a certain win of your closest rival by shoving him into the wall, I would say. :smoking:



#39 as65p

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 14:00

Or not have a route back onto the track at all.

You didn't really think that through.



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#40 as65p

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 14:01

Very smart of Alonso to recognize something he has been doing for a very long time.

In any case, smarter than just making stuff up from thin air.



#41 IrvTheSwerve

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 14:04

99 percent sure they would.

 

However, somewhat similar, I always wondered what the penalty would be if someone doesn't do the mandatory tyre stop, or changes to the same tyre. Hasn't happened as far as I'm aware?!

 I would assume that not using 2 compounds would be instant DQ.



#42 as65p

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 14:06

Alonso actually practiced it on his lap to the grid. Was very funny. Teflonso returns.  :lol:

 

Seriously?!  :lol:  Practicing going straight on at turn 1 is clearly proof of premeditation - as I've long suspected drivers do. But to practice it - that is biscuit taking and Alonso should have been instructed to hand back a few spots. The "nowhere to go" excuse doesn't wash... at circuits without run off they have to concede positions.  

Now think, just a little bit.

 

No driver needs to "practice" going round where Alonso did. If anything, just like his statements on the matter, he continually tries to expose that hole in the regulations / stewards rulings.



#43 Zoe

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 14:06

Is there a sliding scale for jump-start penalties?

 

I've always wondered what would happen if someone accelerated off the grid after, say, 1 set of red lights came on and built up a bit of a lead. At the very least it would be a 10 sec stop/go, but I wonder if they would DQ for that kind of thing.

 

Lorenzo did it (by accident) on COTA once. Iirc it was a stop-go.



#44 as65p

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 14:10

 I would assume that not using 2 compounds would be instant DQ.

 

Yeah, probably. I just wonder if it's explicitely in the rules (the DQ).
 



#45 Bleu

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 14:28

 I would assume that not using 2 compounds would be instant DQ.

 

It is. Or alternatively 30 second penalty if race is stopped early. 

 

That happening would probably mean massive barrier damage following an accident (in dry conditions) and monsoon appearing during the stoppage, so that weather doesn't permit restart after barrier repairs are done.

 

In F2 it's more realistic due to heavier time constraints. There have been two races stopped early due to barrier damage and not restarted but both were sprint races which didn't have mandatory pit stop.

 

 



#46 jpm2019

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 15:11

Max should have overtaken Hamilton in Monaco a few years back by cutting the chicane and serving a 5 second penalty (And win it) 



#47 FortiFord

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 15:22

Deliberately leaving the track is an offence, and personally I think it was a premeditated manoeuvre.

 

Very difficult to prove something like that. 



#48 HeadFirst

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 15:23

How can you punish it? He followed the rules. 

 

Give him a stern warning? :lol:



#49 IrvTheSwerve

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 15:25

Max should have overtaken Hamilton in Monaco a few years back by cutting the chicane and serving a 5 second penalty (And win it) 

 

Ste Devote in its current guise would be ripe for some form of abuse, easy to cut that and get ahead of a car holding you up.



#50 PlatenGlass

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 15:30

Eddie Irvine said he could have won in Argentina in 1996 if he'd pitted on the last lap as he was so close behind Villeneuve and it took less time to get to the start/finish line in the pits. I really wish he'd done that.

 

Edit - It was actually 1997 as pointed out to me.


Edited by PlatenGlass, 27 September 2021 - 18:19.