12 replies to this topic

[mariner]

Anther news item from Enginelabs

 

https://www.enginela...ction-facility/

[BRG]

I thought Brazil already had plant-based ethanol fuel for cars for many years?

[mariner]

Brazil certainly has had plant based ethanol for many decades - the differnce with the Porsche Chile process is it is purely technical, no plants involved.

 

It uses two assets Chile has in abundance- sun and wind - not plants 

[mariner]

Speaking of ethanol yesterday I had the pleasure after too long a gap to go to a US cruise meet- V 8 heaven, big inch engines to the left, even bigger ones to the right!

 

As they left the noise was wonderful but maybe not the fumes. It makes me wonder how long society will tolerate such things.

 

I don't think the objections will be rational as the fuel burnt during  maybe 20 miles to show/drag strip is minimal . It's more the  emotional anger " why I am i forced to buy electric etc when they can pollute at will".

 

The answer may be that al such hobby cars have to switch to pure ethanol or E85 as a voluntary condition of road usage. As many US states give special licence breaks to antique etc cars like those it may end up a condition of the cheap licencing?

 

I tend to make myself unpopular with my UK classic car friends by saying the same thing about the 1960's/1970's classics like MGB's etc. Nice to look at or drive but stinky to travel behind in modern car. In that case most of the engines had a later emissions version  so I wonder if the Classics scene wil be persauded to retrofit the emissions gear to their cars?

Edited by mariner, 02 October 2021 - 14:28.

[Ben1445]

Brazil certainly has had plant based ethanol for many decades - the differnce with the Porsche Chile process is it is purely technical, no plants involved.

 

It uses two assets Chile has in abundance- sun and wind - not plants 

Power-to-liquid 'eFuel', then? 

 

Last I heard of these plans is that it's intended for keeping (current and future) classic Porsche's running as well as fuelling some motorsport/track-day activities. And that it is expected to form a relatively small fraction of the business rather than being anything close to their core future offering. 

 

Which is fair enough, in my view. 

[Greg Locock]

The Chile plant is methanol not ethanol. Another attempt to make solar hydrogen more usable. One of them will work i hope.

[BRG]

Ah, I read the bit about it being the first time fuel was being made NOT derived from fossil fuels.  I missed the extra 'M'!  Which is the one you can't drink? 

 

EDIT: In my defence, i notice that the thread title says 'Ethanol'

Edited by BRG, 03 October 2021 - 11:38.

[Ickx]

Combustion is similar but methanol is produced differently. Has been a potential fuel for ships for some time, and there is history of methanol fueled cars in both North America and Europe. 

 

[Ben1445]

I still think shipping will be re-embracing assistive wind-power over the next decade or two, whatever fuel source is ultimately used the rest of the time.

[gruntguru]

Speaking of ethanol yesterday I had the pleasure after too long a gap to go to a US cruise meet- V 8 heaven, big inch engines to the left, even bigger ones to the right!

 

As they left the noise was wonderful but maybe not the fumes. It makes me wonder how long society will tolerate such things.

I walk beside a busy road on my way to work and as I breathe the nasty diesel and petrol exhaust fumes and turn up the volume on my earplugs so I can still hear the radio, I often contemplate the EV future and how much better it will be - especially for pedestrians and cyclists.

[Greg Locock]

My wife was pointing out how much quieter some houses would be when EVs take over the world. I pointed out that with modern cars the loudest noise when they are cruising along in town is the tires. That'll get worse with EVs, as they are heavy.

[Canuck]

Yesterday was a rather nice day for October in Calgary, so I had the windows down as I tooled around. While waiting at a stop sign, there was a small SUV, a large SUV and a Model 3 crossing my path. I wanted to know if the EV was going to be any quieter than the other two given the rather good job of silencing noise that's been undertaken in modern vehicles. All three vehicles had, to my admittedly abused hearing, the same amount of noise - all tires on the pavement. Modern vehicles just don't make any noise anymore (excepting of course the plethora of 1-ton hotrod Diesel trucks and the equally obnoxious juvenile-owned imports).

[Greg Locock]

One little discussed fact (I used to be a noise engineer) is that modern tires are designed to be quiet so we can pass the driveby noise test. This means that aggressive tread designs, that are actually useful for wet braking, are discouraged.

 

So we are compromising safety in order to make cars quieter.