53 replies to this topic

[techart]

I'm researching for a new book and am trying to find reference for the Hill GH2.  There was reference to this car a while back but the pics have lost the links or have been removed.

Any reference shots would be much appreciated.

 

Mick

Edited by techart, 04 October 2021 - 11:19.

[LionelB]

Hello Mick. You refer to a book you are doing on the "Embassy Hill GH2". I expect that refers to Graham Hill, and remember that Embassy cigarettes was one of his sponsors, 'back in the day". Was the GH2 a separate car that he created, or was it a "sub-model" of his factory ride, which at the time I believe was one of Colin Chapman's creations, i.e. a Lotus? From the late 1950's to the 1980's, I was a freelance racing photo-journalist (including as a contributor to Autosport), covering many races in Canada and the U.S. I still have all my historic photos from those years, and depending which car you are referring to, I may have some pics of it. You can see some of my work in my recently self-published book at my website = www.lionelbirnbom.com. Good luck with your project. Best regards, Lionel.

[Vitesse2]

Hello Mick. You refer to a book you are doing on the "Embassy Hill GH2". I expect that refers to Graham Hill, and remember that Embassy cigarettes was one of his sponsors, 'back in the day". Was the GH2 a separate car that he created, or was it a "sub-model" of his factory ride, which at the time I believe was one of Colin Chapman's creations, i.e. a Lotus? From the late 1950's to the 1980's, I was a freelance racing photo-journalist (including as a contributor to Autosport), covering many races in Canada and the U.S. I still have all my historic photos from those years, and depending which car you are referring to, I may have some pics of it. You can see some of my work in my recently self-published book at my website = www.lionelbirnbom.com. Good luck with your project. Best regards, Lionel.

The GH2 was the car intended for the 1976 season. It never raced and was the chassis which Tony Brise had been testing at Paul Ricard in November 1975 ...

[Gary C]

Er...the GH2 was going to be the Embassy Hill F1 car for 1976, so absolutely nothing to do with Team Lotus? Graham left Team Lotus at the end of 1969, so don't understand this statement....

[ensign14]

 

It was at Goodwood about 15 years ago.  I'm not sure it was going to take Hill to the next level though, weren't there problems in testing?

[Bikr7549]

The Graham's team first ran Shadow chassis, then Lola, then their own modified Lola followed by their own design, which never raced. He did drive a 72 in 1970 for Rob Walker.

[Gary C]

What's the Rob Walker car got yo do with it?

[dolomite]

So what exactly is the book?

[2F-001]

What's the Rob Walker car got yo do with it?

Presumably trying to find some context for the curious 'Chapman' comment in post No. 2 ?  (There seemed to be conflation of two disconnected eras there.)

[Gary C]

You said it!

[Charlieman]

Presumably trying to find some context for the curious 'Chapman' comment in post No. 2 ?  (There seemed to be conflation of two disconnected eras there.)

Having just walked upstairs for a book and come down with a toothpaste packet, I am familiar with forgetfulness. LionelB conflated G Hill's career with Lotuses, Team and privately owned, and the Lola which became the Embassy Hill -- forgivable for someone who took photos in the late 1950s.

 

I'd like to see the GH2 up close, maybe an explanation of the design choices.

[barrykm]

Charlieman...you hit a nail on the head...

 

"Having just walked upstairs for a book and come down with a toothpaste packet, I am familiar with forgetfulness..."

 

   

[Bonde]

The GH2 was an interesting car in that it combined the 'pyramid' section with a very shallow tub. Whether it could have been developed into a winner is difficult to tell. Hesketh 308C/Wolf-Williams FW05 didn't exactly set the World alight, but the Tyrrell 008 did win a race, as did the odd Lola T300-series in F5000 :-)

 

There are some close up shots on the lamentably quiet Gurneyflap site: http://gurneyflap.com/formule170's.html

 

[Peter Morley]

The Hill GH2 was owned by Klaus Fiedler from Switzerland about 10 years ago, it's possible that he still owns it - if you can find him!!

[arttidesco]

IIRC, see post 12 above, there was talk of Graham trying to secure a supply of Alfa flat 12's in Autosport during the 1975 season, these of course went to Brabham eventually but I have always wondered if these engines had any bearing on the configuration of Andy Smallmans eventual GH2 design or wether he started afresh when it became clear the team would carry on with the DFV's ?

[Bonde]

IIRC, see post 12 above, there was talk of Graham trying to secure a supply of Alfa flat 12's in Autosport during the 1975 season, these of course went to Brabham eventually but I have always wondered if these engines had any bearing on the configuration of Andy Smallmans eventual GH2 design or wether he started afresh when it became clear the team would carry on with the DFV's ?

 

Good observation and an interesting question - it could certainly look that way, even if its fuel tankage had sufficed for the thirsty Alfa. The GH2 tub was even pinched-in around the driver's knees in order to maximize tankage volume within the cross-section, so, maybe?

 

If you unbolt those outer portions - are they the deformable structures? - the tub's shape is somewhat reminiscent of a flattened BT45.

[LionelB]

Having just walked upstairs for a book and come down with a toothpaste packet, I am familiar with forgetfulness. LionelB conflated G Hill's career with Lotuses, Team and privately owned, and the Lola which became the Embassy Hill -- forgivable for someone who took photos in the late 1950s.

 

I'd like to see the GH2 up close, maybe an explanation of the design choices.

Thank you Charlieman.

[MCS]

Having just walked upstairs for a book and come down with a toothpaste packet, I am familiar with forgetfulness. LionelB conflated G Hill's career with Lotuses, Team and privately owned, and the Lola which became the Embassy Hill -- forgivable for someone who took photos in the late 1950s.

 

I'd like to see the GH2 up close, maybe an explanation of the design choices.

Moreover someone who took some excellent photos

[arttidesco]

Moreover someone who took some excellent photos

 

Sorry not excellent but a bit closer than we have got so far ;-)

 

 

 

[David Lawson]

A couple of photographs I took of the car at GP Live at Donington in 2007

 

 

 

David

[William Hunt]

I can't help but have a feeling of incredible sadness coming over me when I see pictures of that Hill car. Knowing that they perished in an airplane and so many talented lives were lost. Alan Jones said in an interview that when they went testing in France he had asked Graham if he had to come along but Graham replied that it wasn't necessary and that Tony Brise would do all the testing. That was one lucky escape for Alan.... so sad...

Edited by William Hunt, 06 October 2021 - 03:55.

[funformula]

The Hill GH2 was owned by Klaus Fiedler from Switzerland about 10 years ago, it's possible that he still owns it - if you can find him!!

IIRC he discovered the car and restored it as it was in bits and pieces....wonderful job btw.

I think he sold it a while ago.

[dolomite]

The GH2 used to be in the museum at Beaulieu - I saw it there in 1977. Presumably the one owned by Klaus Fiedler is the same car?

[Gary C]

I presume only one was built?

[MCS]

For some reason I thought there were two, but wasn't one a "half-car" in that the chassis was front-end GH2 and rear-end GH1?

[Bikr7549]

IIRC he discovered the car and restored it as it was in bits and pieces....wonderful job btw.

I think he sold it a while ago.

 

And if I recall correctly it had been poorly stored (along with the engine) after the accident for a very long time due to litigation, and all was badly corroded.

[dolomite]

And if I recall correctly it had been poorly stored (along with the engine) after the accident for a very long time due to litigation, and all was badly corroded.

The one at Beaulieu was on display when I went there in mid 1977, 18 months or so after the accident, and appeared to be in good condition at that time. 

[BRG]

arttidesco's photos in post #19 are marked as 2011 and are clearly taken in a museum somewhere.  Beaulieu?  Can he tell us perhaps?

[GreenMachine]

The one at Beaulieu was on display when I went there in mid 1977, 18 months or so after the accident, and appeared to be in good condition at that time. 

 

I was there 2007, don't remember it, not in my photos.  I think I would remember it, and have a photo, if it had been there, but who knows, that's a while ago now.

[cooper997]

arttidesco's photos in post #19 are marked as 2011 and are clearly taken in a museum somewhere.  Beaulieu?  Can he tell us perhaps?

 

Looks like Donington.

 

 

Stephen

[Parker1]

Yes I think your right , however was there once a hill car in Haynes museum sparkford ?. 

[68targa]

The Haynes museum car was the Lola version

 

[Vitesse2]

Yes I think your right , however was there once a hill car in Haynes museum sparkford ?. 

 

The Haynes museum car was the Lola version

 

T370/HU4

 

https://forums.autos...dpost&p=1934467

 

Like dolomite, I have a memory of the GH2 being on display at Beaulieu in the mid-1970s. Either 1976 or 1977.

[68targa]

You're correct, Beaulieu view

 

 

And a closer view.  T

[Vitesse2]

I have a horrible feeling that the chap examining that Tyrrell behind the GH2 could be me ...

[dolomite]

You're correct, Beaulieu view
 

 
And a closer view.  T

That’s the one!
When I saw it there was a Tyrrell March 701 next to it as well

[bsc]

IIRC he discovered the car and restored it as it was in bits and pieces....wonderful job btw.
I think he sold it a while ago.

I was marshalling a Formel Histo race at Brno a couple of years ago (a curious Formula Libre style event comprising everything from Vees to F1, with the odd Sports 2000 thrown in). Anyway, the Hill GH2 appeared driven by Franz Guggemos from Austria.

[funformula]

Brno 2014 probably?

 

Grand Prix Revival 2014 - Brünn | Topspeed.cc - Hier erfahren Sie Infos über die Rennsportszene mit Vollgas

 

There is one photo of the GH2 with the cockpit cover taken off, so probably a source for the thread opener techart.

[dolomite]

Found one that I took in 1977

 

[arttidesco]

arttidesco's photos in post #19 are marked as 2011 and are clearly taken in a museum somewhere.  Beaulieu?  Can he tell us perhaps?

Donington ;-)

[Pullman99]

I was present at the National Motor Museum in 1976 when Bette Hill presented the Hill GH2 to the museum - on loan I believe from the executors of Graham's estate (administered by John Coombs?) - and Bette was accompanied by Damon and his sisters.  I think there's a pic with Damon in the car at the presentation in Damon's book "Watching the Wheels".    This was a week two prior to the International Trophy at Silverstone an event that was named for Graham' and that included a parade of his cars that I helped to organise with the late Robert Fearnall.   I had been hoping that the GH2 could have been at Silverstone too.   I think that the car would have been sold in the early 1980s but the NMM could possibly provide more detail.   Not sure whether it had a complete engine in it that time as in about 1987 (?) Damon drove the GH2 in a private test session when it was fitted with an F3000 spec DFV.   There was a story in Autosport at the time.

 

Meant to mention also that none of the cars in the front row in 68targa's Beaulieu pic are there now!

Edited by Pullman99, 08 October 2021 - 07:53.

[cooper997]

Breaking news from 10/4/75 MN

 

 

 

Stephen

[Duc-Man]

I'm researching for a new book and am trying to find reference for the Hill GH2.  There was reference to this car a while back but the pics have lost the links or have been removed.

Any reference shots would be much appreciated.

 

Mick

I took a couple photos at the Nürburgring OGP 2015.

 

You can find them here: https://www.facebook...773493125997301

[techart]

Hi May I just thanks you for the response and sorry for the delay in replying, been one on those weeks.  In answer to Dolomites question regarding info about the book.  Not sure of a title and I don't want to give too much away at the mo. I plan it to be a follow on from my last book, and along a similar route.  I plan to have quite a few cutaways, once I can gain access to the various F1s that I want to go in it.

[MarkBisset]

 

The most recent recruit to the Embassy Hill team later in 1975, was probably Australian, Tony Alcock.
Maybe a bit about him is of interest?

In 1975 he ran Bob Muir in two Birrana 273 BDAs in the British Formula Atlantic Championship - a title Tony Brise won, my guess is that’s how the connection arose.

 

While employed by Hill as a mechanic/fabricator, Tony had been a partner in Birrana Cars together with Malcolm Ramsay in Adelaide. Tony was the designer/fabricator. From 1971 - 1974 they built about 20 championship winning cars ; FF, F3, F2, even a mid-engined VW powered Speedcar, so they were not lacking in innovation! Ramsay and Alcock closed Birrana at the end of ‘74 as they couldn’t profitably build the cars they wanted.

 

Tony cut his construction teeth at Elfins in the early 1960’s before doing a stint at Brabham, then returning to Elfins - thence to Sydney to engineer the Elfin ME5 Chev sporty he built at Elfin for its owner, Niel Allen.

 

This is not the full monty on Tony Alcock, it is intriguing to wonder what he would have achieved...

 

 

 

Bruce Allison from Leo Geoghegan at Phillip Island in late 1974, both driving Alcock designed Birrana 274 Hart-Ford 416-B ANF2 cars (Auto Action Archive)

Edited by MarkBisset, 18 October 2021 - 06:56.

[MCS]

For some reason I thought there were two, but wasn't one a "half-car" in that the chassis was front-end GH2 and rear-end GH1?

Not sure anybody confirmed or otherwise, but I have just checked Old Racing Cars which states there are indeed two GH2s, one in Austria and one in the UK: https://www.oldracin...s.com/hill/gh2/

[goro]

This is an album of pictures that I have collected on the net about this car in a few years.

https://cevert.rajce...ll_GH2_ref_pic/

 

The album will be available until 31.10.2021

[cooper997]

December 2000 Motor Sport has David Tremayne's Tony Brise feature with GH2 content. 

 

Given it can be found online in Motor Sport's own archive, I won't add here.

 

 

Stephen

[jcbc3]

^ https://www.motorspo.../so-little-time

[MCS]

I hadn't realised that Alan Jones tested the GH2 at Paul Ricard: https://www.unracedf...he-1975-season/

 

Has he ever said anything about it?